Three Doors to Jhanas? - Discussion
Three Doors to Jhanas?
PP, modified 11 Years ago at 1/29/13 1:33 AM
Created 11 Years ago at 1/29/13 1:24 AM
Three Doors to Jhanas?
Posts: 376 Join Date: 3/21/12 Recent Posts
Hi,
In the last few days I did a relaxation practice, laid in bed, letting the warmth spread to the whole body, trying to have an open wide focus but occasionally actively relaxing the joints, which frees more warmth.
One thing that I noticed by doing this is that my mind was repeatedly captured into access concentration / early 1st jhana. Three things usually happened just before it, that I'm tempted to linked them to the Three Doors:
1. No-self: I spotted a phrase or string of words that don't come from me, from my stream of thoughts
2: Impermanence: A loose block of pixels of light (Moire's patterns) appear at eyes level, which fades quickly
3. Suffering: A sudden let go of something unsatisfactory like too much warmth, a breath escalation o disturbing thought
I read in the MCTB about Three Doors to access Fruction, but clearly I've never been there, A&P is the highest zone I have stepped in. I haven't read so far any account of this doors to concentration, so this intrigues me. Perhaps it's so easy for others to jump into this territory that they haven't even considered the "similarities"? Do your experiences match this three doors?
In the last few days I did a relaxation practice, laid in bed, letting the warmth spread to the whole body, trying to have an open wide focus but occasionally actively relaxing the joints, which frees more warmth.
One thing that I noticed by doing this is that my mind was repeatedly captured into access concentration / early 1st jhana. Three things usually happened just before it, that I'm tempted to linked them to the Three Doors:
1. No-self: I spotted a phrase or string of words that don't come from me, from my stream of thoughts
2: Impermanence: A loose block of pixels of light (Moire's patterns) appear at eyes level, which fades quickly
3. Suffering: A sudden let go of something unsatisfactory like too much warmth, a breath escalation o disturbing thought
I read in the MCTB about Three Doors to access Fruction, but clearly I've never been there, A&P is the highest zone I have stepped in. I haven't read so far any account of this doors to concentration, so this intrigues me. Perhaps it's so easy for others to jump into this territory that they haven't even considered the "similarities"? Do your experiences match this three doors?
katy steger,thru11615 with thanks, modified 11 Years ago at 1/29/13 6:52 AM
Created 11 Years ago at 1/29/13 6:52 AM
RE: Three Doors to Jhanas?
Posts: 1740 Join Date: 10/1/11 Recent Posts
Hi Pablo,
First I think that what you're doing is a very familiar "way in" for many people. It's so natural for us to just lay down on the couch or in bed, and at some point in a lifetime of doing that, a number of people are going to experience something interesting there happening with the mind and consciousness. That was how the A&P occurred to me: laying on my back after a little cow-cat breathing in yoga and *boom* out of body experience that seemed to take "me" (personal awareness) right to the heart of God -- absolute homecoming, love. The Theravadan monk Yutadhammo describes how he trained in this energy (as a kid, way before he studied buddhist science of mind) while laying down on his back and an OOB experience he tripped; you can find that on his youtube channel.
If I understand you correctly, you're wondering if this recumbent position training (laying down and repeatedly getting into access concentration/early first jhana) will lead you into concentration training and the milestones of concentration training (the other jhanas)?
If that is your question, then yes. One of the four positions of meditation is recumbent on the right-hand side. This basically helps the mind stay alert against sleep. Recumbent position has uses, but there are times when it is counterproductive due to the ease of falling asleep.
The experience people have accidentally as their way into studying the mind deliberately (as in meditation) is usually so moving that they begin to search for re-creating that experience (as you are doing). This search to re-experience and understand what tripped the experience in the first place is concentration training: "Oh, what was that? I want that to happen again; what was I doing before when that happened?" Soon enough one is sitting on the floor or in a chair training just like one trains to play an instrument or at the gym.
First I think that what you're doing is a very familiar "way in" for many people. It's so natural for us to just lay down on the couch or in bed, and at some point in a lifetime of doing that, a number of people are going to experience something interesting there happening with the mind and consciousness. That was how the A&P occurred to me: laying on my back after a little cow-cat breathing in yoga and *boom* out of body experience that seemed to take "me" (personal awareness) right to the heart of God -- absolute homecoming, love. The Theravadan monk Yutadhammo describes how he trained in this energy (as a kid, way before he studied buddhist science of mind) while laying down on his back and an OOB experience he tripped; you can find that on his youtube channel.
I read in the MCTB about Three Doors to access Fruction, but clearly I've never been there, A&P is the highest zone I have stepped in. I haven't read so far any account of this doors to concentration, so this intrigues me.
If that is your question, then yes. One of the four positions of meditation is recumbent on the right-hand side. This basically helps the mind stay alert against sleep. Recumbent position has uses, but there are times when it is counterproductive due to the ease of falling asleep.
The experience people have accidentally as their way into studying the mind deliberately (as in meditation) is usually so moving that they begin to search for re-creating that experience (as you are doing). This search to re-experience and understand what tripped the experience in the first place is concentration training: "Oh, what was that? I want that to happen again; what was I doing before when that happened?" Soon enough one is sitting on the floor or in a chair training just like one trains to play an instrument or at the gym.
Nick K, modified 11 Years ago at 1/29/13 10:31 AM
Created 11 Years ago at 1/29/13 10:31 AM
RE: Three Doors to Jhanas?
Posts: 15 Join Date: 1/10/12 Recent Posts
I suppose the three marks of existence are characteristics of all dhammas (phenomena), so sure parallels could be drawn.
http://www.spokaneconcentrationmeditation.org/resources/firstJhanachart-091911.pdf
Take a look at this progression to jhana chart from brian gavin/pa auk tradition. I'll make some other relations and see if this makes sense.
1. change in thought from discursive to episodic. From directed thinking to a bubbling mind that throws out random stuff.
2. In whats termed access lots of people start getting visual phenomena. See what they call "starry night" as the brightening/flickering visuals leading toward visual nimitta.
3. ekkagata is one-pointed/non-distracted factor of mind. Letting go of something you become more concentrated right.
http://www.spokaneconcentrationmeditation.org/resources/firstJhanachart-091911.pdf
Take a look at this progression to jhana chart from brian gavin/pa auk tradition. I'll make some other relations and see if this makes sense.
1. change in thought from discursive to episodic. From directed thinking to a bubbling mind that throws out random stuff.
2. In whats termed access lots of people start getting visual phenomena. See what they call "starry night" as the brightening/flickering visuals leading toward visual nimitta.
3. ekkagata is one-pointed/non-distracted factor of mind. Letting go of something you become more concentrated right.
PP, modified 11 Years ago at 1/29/13 1:21 PM
Created 11 Years ago at 1/29/13 1:21 PM
RE: Three Doors to Jhanas?
Posts: 376 Join Date: 3/21/12 Recent Posts
Hi Katy,
Thanks for your detailed answer. It's interesting those two jhana experiences you mention, coming from the energy camp. Most of the energy experiences I had are A&P related. Instead, the instructions I have found for a jhana practice are related to perceiving the "solid" flow and/or nice smell of breath, or focus in the nimitta that emerges in a candle flame. In a sense, it's the opposite of the 3Cs as the mind gets attracted to the solidity and pleasantness of the object.
It's funny that it's said that Noting without seeing the 3Cs is just a concentration practice. But in my case, given certain conditions, it's just the opposite: watching the 3Cs I get into a concentration state. By the end of December I started a Noting practice, so it has became easier to spot the 3Cs even off zafu.
Hi Nick,
Excellent connection! So, the 3Cs are part of the process from momentary concentration to absorption. I have tried concentration practices like anapanasati, candle flame and kasinas for two years with little results. But in barely a month noting out-loud I see my concentration building up, even if what I'm trying to do initially looks like the opposite. I'm happy to have accidentally found a "reliable" way to step into concentration. Thanks!
Thanks for your detailed answer. It's interesting those two jhana experiences you mention, coming from the energy camp. Most of the energy experiences I had are A&P related. Instead, the instructions I have found for a jhana practice are related to perceiving the "solid" flow and/or nice smell of breath, or focus in the nimitta that emerges in a candle flame. In a sense, it's the opposite of the 3Cs as the mind gets attracted to the solidity and pleasantness of the object.
It's funny that it's said that Noting without seeing the 3Cs is just a concentration practice. But in my case, given certain conditions, it's just the opposite: watching the 3Cs I get into a concentration state. By the end of December I started a Noting practice, so it has became easier to spot the 3Cs even off zafu.
Hi Nick,
Excellent connection! So, the 3Cs are part of the process from momentary concentration to absorption. I have tried concentration practices like anapanasati, candle flame and kasinas for two years with little results. But in barely a month noting out-loud I see my concentration building up, even if what I'm trying to do initially looks like the opposite. I'm happy to have accidentally found a "reliable" way to step into concentration. Thanks!