If someone is trying to achieve paths, is it better to proceed with dry vipassana and supplement with jhanic practice as one hits higher paths, or is it better to first establish the jhanas, and investigate from the highest point possible?

I've been consolidating jhana and vipassana. I've noticed that I can basically treat nanas like jhanas, and get absorbed/steep in them. This is the case for insight stages like fear and reobservation, but I've even noticed that I can prolong and cultivate the A&P, in a way that is still clearly vibratory, insight work, distinct from 2nd jhana. I find myself naturally doing that in practice quite often, but then I think, why am I blasting my brain so hard, without cultivating joy at the same time? Naturally, my thought would be, I'm just trying to stick with vipassana practice so I should just keep breaking everything down and not cultivate anything besides mindfulness of the 3C's. But, I've started to blend it... I'll hit the A&P and make a conscious effort to bring the joy along. It's much more pleasant that way, and I don't find myself getting stuck in jhanic territory. It's still edgy and vibratory, but the mind seems so much calmer if I do it that way.

Another thing I noticed... If I practice in this way, cultivating jhanic factors in the corresponding nanas, cycling becomes more jhana-like than vipassana-like. I realized this to the max the other day, as I was walking down a busy street at school, when I felt some concentration/mindfulness/whatever arising in my body, giving me pleasant feelings. I allowed those sensations to continue, and payed attention, and to my surprise, I basically found myself ascending through the jhanas, up to a very solid 4th jhana. I've never really experienced jhanas while walking, and I've definitely not experienced jhanas while not really trying to.

I've decided that it must be one of two things:

1. Since I got 1st path, the experience of cycling makes it much more plausible to be hitting jhanas while off the cushion, or

2. Since I upped my concentration practice, cycles naturally cause the jhanic factors and stages to arise.


The second possibility is why I'm posting this. The implication would be, anyone who has crossed the A&P and cycles through DN territory could perhaps learn to smooth out any cycling that occurs, causing jhanic factors to arise. You really do skip over the DN if you just go from 3rd jhana to 4th, and if you have a solid grasp of the joy that blossoms in 2nd, the simple happiness of the 3rd, and the sinking of the 4th, you could simply evoke the corresponding factors at the A&P, dissolution, and then sink smoothly into equanimity. Then, perhaps get path from there.

Any thoughts on why one would cycle through the DN when it's possible to just practice jhana, get 1-4 solid, and just cycle through those instead?

Hi MOE,

I am pre SE but have just worked out (from a comment by BTG responding to my question on itchiness whilst meditating) that this is exactly what I have been doing. I started off practicing a few months ago and first goal was to get into Shamata Jhanas and develop skill in those (ie Concentration) and then try to develop Vipassana using the concentration I had developed. I have recently been doing noting in and out of sits but due to a pattern of experiences emerging I believe I have been cycling through the nanas via Jhana practice. Time will tell but if this is a solid assessment, then I can say that the DN component amounts to some intense itching on the face and a few unsettled sits for which I am very thankful compared to how bad it supposedly could be and I guess it could be attributed to working from the Jhana perspective.

Since I am new to this, its all just deduction based on patterns of experience and what I am reading but this cycling pattern of feeling equanimous and then dropping to really unsettled/poor concentration etc and then with diligence returning to an equanimous state again has happened every week for the past 4 weeks - I think my stressful work weeks are dropping me back into the Dhukka nanas, then with better sits and noting on the weekends I can scramble back up.

Any comments welcome

Rod

It might also be a combination of the two, especially if you hit SE not too long ago (review) and have since been doing more concentration practice.
Also I find that the distinction between vipassana and concentration, while being very meaningful with regard to the practices, is not so straightforward in regard to the territory one encounters. Somewhere after first path and especially after second, the conceptual models that were valid and helpful up to then tend to fall apart, and questions as to where one is on the maps and how to practice best etc. become very hard to deal with.
So if you currently manage to avoid the downsides that sometimes come with the DN nanas - enjoy it while it lasts!

My preference is for a moist vipassana...