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Back Pain Solutions Sleeping Buddha Syndrome 3/2/13 7:09 AM
RE: Back Pain Solutions Sleeping Buddha Syndrome 3/2/13 7:10 AM
RE: Back Pain Solutions PP 3/2/13 8:12 AM
RE: Back Pain Solutions Melanie Lily Green 3/8/19 6:29 PM
RE: Back Pain Solutions katy steger,thru11.6.15 with thanks 3/2/13 8:01 AM
RE: Back Pain Solutions Bagpuss The Gnome 3/2/13 8:30 AM
RE: Back Pain Solutions Nikolai . 3/2/13 4:27 PM
RE: Back Pain Solutions Sleeping Buddha Syndrome 3/2/13 8:13 PM
RE: Back Pain Solutions Fitter Stoke 3/3/13 10:58 AM
RE: Back Pain Solutions This Good Self 3/3/13 8:16 PM
RE: Back Pain Solutions Fitter Stoke 3/4/13 8:36 AM
RE: Back Pain Solutions Simon Ekstrand 3/4/13 8:55 AM
RE: Back Pain Solutions This Good Self 3/4/13 6:14 PM
RE: Back Pain Solutions Simon Ekstrand 3/4/13 9:15 AM
RE: Back Pain Solutions Bagpuss The Gnome 3/4/13 9:43 AM
RE: Back Pain Solutions Some Guy 3/4/13 10:30 AM
RE: Back Pain Solutions This Good Self 3/4/13 8:15 PM
RE: Back Pain Solutions Some Guy 3/5/13 10:50 AM
RE: Back Pain Solutions This Good Self 3/6/13 5:19 AM
RE: Back Pain Solutions Change A. 3/4/13 9:47 PM
RE: Back Pain Solutions This Good Self 3/4/13 10:39 PM
RE: Back Pain Solutions Change A. 3/5/13 9:30 PM
RE: Back Pain Solutions Simon Ekstrand 3/5/13 6:01 AM
RE: Back Pain Solutions Sleeping Buddha Syndrome 3/5/13 9:13 AM
RE: Back Pain Solutions Lara D 3/5/13 9:48 AM
RE: Back Pain Solutions Sleeping Buddha Syndrome 4/2/13 10:20 AM
RE: Back Pain Solutions Some Guy 4/2/13 1:29 PM
RE: Back Pain Solutions Cedric . 4/2/13 6:40 PM
RE: Back Pain Solutions This Good Self 4/2/13 11:01 PM
RE: Back Pain Solutions Cedric . 4/4/13 1:36 PM
RE: Back Pain Solutions Change A. 4/4/13 10:15 PM
RE: Back Pain Solutions Sleeping Buddha Syndrome 4/5/13 8:41 AM
RE: Back Pain Solutions Sleeping Buddha Syndrome 4/5/13 12:23 PM
RE: Back Pain Solutions Change A. 4/5/13 11:20 PM
RE: How I recover My body from back pain T Dement Marry Td 7/9/18 2:04 AM
top 5 back pain Solutions jasmin kaur 7/10/18 1:40 AM
RE: Back Pain Solutions David Walter 11/12/18 3:10 AM
RE: Back Pain Solutions Ben V. 11/12/18 5:15 AM
RE: Back Pain Solutions Cláudio Cruz 3/8/19 9:54 PM
RE: Back Pain Solutions shargrol 3/9/19 7:24 AM
RE: Back Pain Solutions Patrick Robertson 3/14/19 4:47 AM
RE: Back Pain Solutions Alex 3/14/19 8:49 PM
RE: Back Pain Solutions deleteaccountplease thereisnofacility 3/15/19 8:48 AM
RE: Back Pain Solutions John Henry 3/21/19 12:24 PM
Back Pain Solutions
Answer
3/2/13 7:09 AM
Hello all,

I have a quick question, I hope someone here can help me. For several months now I have had some back pain when I wake up in the morning. It doesn't really bother me when I go about my business during the day, but it is severe enough in the morning that I can't really get up and do anything until I focus on tensing/relaxing over and over, which usually takes around an hour. It is often so intense that I can feel the pain through my sleep and dreams, leading to insomnia (usually only sleep a couple hours) and feeling fatigued. I have had several views on what might be causing the pain, but am not really sure ultimately what is going on.

Has anyone else had experience with this? One thing I have noticed is that when I wake up and the pain is intense I can't focus on the Anapana spot on the tip of the nose very well or get into the witness. At a certain point I will feel something come online and suddenly both of these are accessible.


Some of my current ideas:

It is just a physical problem that I will have to deal with the rest of my life.

Somehow this is just concentrated dukkha.

Somehow my body is out of alignment and that further insight work will release the body.
(I have heard of some yogis becoming paralyzed during their training)

Maybe a combo of things - diet related perhaps, (I have ruled out sleeping surface), idk


I am looking for practical solutions that might help me deal with this problem, if there are any?

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
3/2/13 7:10 AM as a reply to Sleeping Buddha Syndrome.
I would add that the pain is a deep kind of pain radiating out of the spine, mostly in the lumbar region.

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
3/2/13 8:12 AM as a reply to Sleeping Buddha Syndrome.
Hey, I can't say if it's something about meditation, but I had that kind of lumbar problem too: couldn't sit to get out of bed and needed to drag myself facing the sheets until my legs touched the ground, could hardly walk, needed shots to kill pain, etc. If you are a chronic in this issue, the quick solutions I found were:

1. use an (electric) heating pad when in bed and OR sit in a chair (as long as you needed)
2. do back stretches a few times every day, and then make stretching part of your daily routine

Then, there are over the Web a lot of useful tips to correct posture.

Added: When back stretching, with fingers in the ground and legs straight, take a deep breath but try to do it with expanding your lower ribs. The idea is to expand your lumbar region backwards and to the sides. Then loose slowly your knees while letting your head go down (like trying to do the fetal position). Do it mindfully and very slowly, you'll see how your lumbar area stretches! Release the air as needed.

If in half-lotus, also check if your abdomen is too relaxed. Please remember that all the relaxation of the abdomen is done at the expense of more work of the lumbar muscles. Abdominal region should have "some" muscular tone if you'll sit for long periods of time. That's easier if the knees are lower than your hips. Also let another person check if your sacral region isn't curved backwards when sit. When straight, you'll sense your lower abdominal muscles starting to do their work.

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
3/2/13 8:01 AM as a reply to Sleeping Buddha Syndrome.
Hi there,

So I had back surgery a long time ago, low back.

Today, I have no remissions so long as I keep up with long-held, gently entered stretching with long, slow, deep breathing. (Well, and I exercise in a variety of ways without being a super-fit person...).

So it's been a long time since my back was in pain (knock on wood ;) -- meaning there's been no sharp jabbing radiating nerve pain of compressed nerves nor dull throbbing, very stiff achy pain for a long time -- but here's what I do for anything now, and I do actively treat two pretty wicked "tennis elbows" (lateral epicondylitis) at the moment successfully so that I can spend hours and hours every day doing fine work with the hands:

1. I find a stretch that's somewhat removed from the main pain area. So for my arms, I start with the back and shoulder muscles. After several minutes with those groups, I work down to stretches in the target area (unless they are too inflammed to do this; I don't do anything that causes or triggers existing pain).

2. Each stretch is good if a) I can take long, slow deep breathes (minimum 5-sec inhales, 5-sec exhales) -- this means to me that I'm not overdoing anything and that from here I'm going to be able to keep stretching; b) I can feel the stretch in the surface muscles (kind of feels like the skin is stretching) and there's clearly easy-to-feel energy channels opening up (nothing woo-woo here, just easy-to-know stretch feeling), and c) there's no pain, just stretching-feeling.

3. I stay in stretches no less than about 2.5 minutes letting my body drop ("descents") in as the muscle spindles give up their active hold to the tendons (golgi tendon signaling seems to govern the stretch alone once the muscle spindle starts to relax around 2-3 minutes).

4. For big muscles groups I might stay longer -- like 8 minutes. Or I might just do 3-minute descents (I call them this because the body is dropping into the stretch itself, I force nothing -- force is a great way to get a long-term injury, like a hamstring pull. That's one year of rehab stretching...)

5. I use antagonistic and alignment principles outlined by Ray Long, MD. He has lots of free superb stuff on line.

6. Summary: mainly I just find/create any stretch that feels good to me, apply it in a steady descent and I put the mind on the breath and focus the breath on the stretch and keep letting that happen for 2-3 minutes.


Here's the classic mental pattern even in such a nice, gentle effort as above:
a. at about 30-50 seconds the mind says, "Hey stop now" for no reason. There's no pain: that's the muscles spindle and golgi tendon complex chatting to the brain. It does that (limits movement thourgh nerve signaling) so that we don't sprain ourselves while we sleep.

b. at that point I consciously tell myself, "Okay, ten more long, slow, naturally deep breathes".

c. usually some mild myotactic shaking will start; again, I'm stretching gently, but the muscle spindle will start to tremble a bit just before it relaxes and cedes full authority to the golgi tendon complex.

d. the muscles spindle relaxes around 2-3 minutes (unless it's a big muscle in some rare big tension) and the stretch will naturally let me descend lower, relax and keep up the deep breathing.

That's what I do. Be your best judge. I would not do anything that causes/activates pain. There are plenty of stretches and supported stretches (using chair, wall, blocks, belts, etc) to be done that you can tell are not hurting you.

good luck!

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
3/2/13 8:30 AM as a reply to katy steger,thru11.6.15 with thanks.
I like all of Katy's and Pablo's points. Here's a few questions:

* How old are you?
* How much do you weigh?
* Do you do any exercise? What?

If you only sleep a couple of hours I would start right there. You may be in a vicious circle of tension through lack of sleep causing lack of sleep.

With lower back I have found yoga stretches great, but even better, deadlifts. You don't need expensive weights to do these, just find something heavy and pick it up a few times with reasonably good form and it will strengthen all those postural muscles in low back.

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
3/2/13 4:27 PM as a reply to Bagpuss The Gnome.
Go get some shiatsu or acupuncture done. Tell them your problem. Sometimes it's just some stagnant qi or a disharmony elsewhere. And sometimes it's stagnant and disharmonious due to emotions fluctuating (dukkha nanas?) and dominating the field of experience bottle necking qi in a certain place and depleting it elsewhere. The back is often that place. One could use the powers of mental discernment to release it (might take a awhile), do some energy moving exercises, or get some help via palpation or acupuncture of the body. It may be due to a number of lifestyle choices. The lower back area is often associated with the kidneys in TCM.

http://www.spineuniverse.com/treatments/alternative/traditional-chinese-medicine-tcm-back-pain-1

The Relation of the Kidney System in TCM and Lower Back Pain

The low back is the “mansion of the Kidneys” meaning that the low back is most closely related, but not limited to, the health of the Kidney system. It is without question, in low back pain, that the Kidney system be treated in Chinese medicine.

Back on the subject of Qi, it is said in Chinese Medicine:

If there is free flow, there is no pain;
If there is no free flow, there is pain.

Basically, what this means is if the Qi and/or blood stagnate in the channel(s), specifically through the region of the low back, there will be pain. Imagine a river flowing unimpeded and suddenly a tree falls across the river, we see in our imagination the water no longer flowing freely, but getting blocked by the log, pushing into the banks of the river. The basic concept of acupuncture is to re-open the river, create a circulation so that the log lifts and normal flow is restored.

How does the free flow of Qi and blood in the body become impeded, so as to cause pain?

1. An external invasion of wind, cold, dampness, or heat may invade the lower back region causing pain. If our defensive Qi or immune system is weak we become more susceptible to external invasions through the pores of our skin.

2. The Qi and blood can stagnate due to trauma (i.e. lifting, repetitive strain over time, an accident or similar sprain).

3. There may be an insufficiency of Qi or blood creating a sluggishness or stagnation of flow throughout the channel(s). This is an internal cause or weakness with a number of possible etiologies such as:

Poor diet, insufficient rest coupled with too much activity or overwork (i.e. busy lives, excessive sex*), overuse of drugs, chronic illness, heredity weakness, an excess of the emotions fear and anxiety, and general aging as our Qi is naturally declining.
The Chinese believe that a healthy, moderate amount of sex supports a good flow of Qi and too much sex (specifically ejaculation for men and childbirth for women), depletes the Qi, blood and essence of the Kidneys.

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
3/2/13 8:13 PM as a reply to Nikolai ..
Thanks guys. I will try to put this information to good use.

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
3/3/13 10:58 AM as a reply to Sleeping Buddha Syndrome.
Go see a chiropractor to rule out purely physical causes. I thought my back pain was due to meditation stuff. Turns out I have a very non-meditation-related curvature in my spine and compression of vertebrae.

Get that shit looked at.

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
3/3/13 8:16 PM as a reply to Sleeping Buddha Syndrome.
This is my professional field and I can truly say that I have no idea how it all works. But I do know that what is taught in orthopaedic medicine, physiotherapy and chiropractic is wrong.... particularly chiropractic, which is more of a corrupt business model than a system of health care.

My current thinking is broadly similar to John Sarno, Professor of Rehabilitation Medicine, New York University School of Medicine. Interview here: http://rense.com/general75/backpain.htm Note in particular what he says about "trying to be a good person". Buddhism anyone?

Consider that not everyone gets back pain. People who are in happy relationships, with happy families and doing a job they enjoy do not tend to get aches and pains. It just doesn't happen.

And just in case someone decides to x-ray or scan your back and tell you "hey, I've found the source of your back pain!! Look!". Consider this: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199407143310201

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
3/4/13 8:36 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
C C C:
Consider that not everyone gets back pain. People who are in happy relationships, with happy families and doing a job they enjoy do not tend to get aches and pains. It just doesn't happen.


Right. Because those people never fall, get into car accidents, or accidentally lift something the wrong way. It just doesn't happen.

But I'm sure they all troll internet forums, because that's obviously what happy, well-adjusted people who aren't disgruntled weirdos do.

Thanks for clearing that up.

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
3/4/13 8:55 AM as a reply to Fitter Stoke.
Fitter Stoke:
Right. Because those people never fall, get into car accidents, or accidentally lift something the wrong way. It just doesn't happen.


Speaking purely from personal experience here.
I once managed to hurt my lower back with a bad lift. That pain didn't heal until I managed to deal with a bunch of unrelated body tension issues which had a psychological basis.

I suspect that there is something to what CCC is saying in that an unhappy person tends to have (more) tension than a happy person, which in turn makes it difficult for the body to heal, especially when it comes to (lower-)back issues.

That's why my experiences seem to indicate anyway, if they have any general applicability I have no idea.

Metta,
Simon

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
3/4/13 9:15 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
C C C:
My current thinking is broadly similar to John Sarno, Professor of Rehabilitation Medicine, New York University School of Medicine. Interview here: http://rense.com/general75/backpain.htm Note in particular what he says about "trying to be a good person". Buddhism anyone?


That's a very interesting article, thank you.

Metta,
Simon

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
3/4/13 9:43 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
C C C:
This is my professional field and I can truly say that I have no idea how it all works. But I do know that what is taught in orthopaedic medicine, physiotherapy and chiropractic is wrong.... particularly chiropractic, which is more of a corrupt business model than a system of health care.

My current thinking is broadly similar to John Sarno, Professor of Rehabilitation Medicine, New York University School of Medicine. Interview here: http://rense.com/general75/backpain.htm Note in particular what he says about "trying to be a good person". Buddhism anyone?

Consider that not everyone gets back pain. People who are in happy relationships, with happy families and doing a job they enjoy do not tend to get aches and pains. It just doesn't happen.

And just in case someone decides to x-ray or scan your back and tell you "hey, I've found the source of your back pain!! Look!". Consider this: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199407143310201


Thanks for posting this CCC. This fits very well with my personal experience. For over 10yrs I went from Chiro to chiro, did physic and acupuncture etc etc for lower back pain. It wasn't until i started to get my mind under control that I was able to lose the pain, pretty much for good. I agree entirely about Chiros. A few of the ones I saw were just crooks. The rest were just very poor "heath professionals" at best.

From experience I would say some things like postural strength, stretching (to relieve chronic tension) and even diet can affect the low back, but (barring a legitimate injury, and there are fewer of those than you'd think) control of the mind is the real key.

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
3/4/13 10:30 AM as a reply to Bagpuss The Gnome.
It's so interesting to see people's medical beliefs playing out in the dharma context. Is it the mind or the body? Which is which? Who are the quacks and who the enlightened healers? There's a whole field of study devoted to how one's identity determines the experience of illness and healing.

Look at all the muck ADR has to wade through before deciding who to ask for help! I have some ideas as to how to be a savvy consumer of health services:

A. Get all the diagnostic info you can.
1. Start with the least invasive/safest intervention.
2. Whatever modality you access, ask a lot of questions and study up. Patients who can advocate for themselves have a totally different experience than those who are at the mercy of their provider.
3. Whatever modality you access, try to find someone who is loved by their patients/clients. Sometimes it's just a cult of personality, but usually they're loved for good reason.
4. Pick the low-hanging fruit: Everything that happens in the body is affected by how you eat, exercise/work, and your mind. Making improvements in those three things can reduce the scope of your problem and make you more prone to healing.

Hope that helps. I love hearing everyone's opinions about this stuff.

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
3/4/13 6:14 PM as a reply to Fitter Stoke.
Fitter Stoke:
C C C:
Consider that not everyone gets back pain. People who are in happy relationships, with happy families and doing a job they enjoy do not tend to get aches and pains. It just doesn't happen.


Right. Because those people never fall, get into car accidents, or accidentally lift something the wrong way. It just doesn't happen.

But I'm sure they all troll internet forums, because that's obviously what happy, well-adjusted people who aren't disgruntled weirdos do.

Thanks for clearing that up.


Actually that's true, happy well-adjusted people don't tend to hurt themselves in the way you described (falls, car accidents, lifting accidents). Maybe it happens occasionally, but when it does, such a person will recover very quickly on his own or with minimal intervention. In any back pain clinic, what you will not see is a cross section of the community. What you will see is unhappy people of lower income and lower intelligence, and sometimes middle/high income/intelligence people with horrible relationships and self esteem. I'm not making a judgment here - such people have a very hard time in life and are deserving of every assistance they can get. But this is the fact. Walk into any emergency department or fracture clinic or back pain clinic and you will see a very narrow subsection of the community. Unhappy people. A weak counter-argument is to say "they are unhappy because they are in pain", but look really closely and you will see that these people have unhappiness etched deeply into their faces. They were unhappy well before they were beset by physical pain. Research supports the idea that those of low mood have a very hard time recovering from back pain. Just Google "chronic pain + mood + depression + anxiety" and there's more than enough for a few day's study.

I've had my share of aches and pains. Anyone who has suffered depression will say the same. Sometimes my whole body has ached so severely I couldn't sit still. But traditional models of treatment fall way short of what's required, especially in the treatment of chronic pain. All the most modern research into chronic pain points to the mind as the source and cause.

What 'Some Guy' says about all the options facing a person with pain is so right. How the hell would the average person know what to do when faced with all these possibilities? It's quite insane that this should be the case. My main problem with chiropractors is that many of them take advantage of a patient's uncertainty...and they feed it. Such lines are commonplace: "If you don't have weekly treatments for x years you will end up not being able to walk". "I need a down payment of x thousand dollars for your x years of treatment which starts today". The weak of mind fall prey to this. It's really very cruel to defraud and frighten those already in great pain.

Sarno and many others have cottoned onto the idea of acceptance. Acceptance of the deep fears and sadness that gets locked away in the subconscious. Anything that is denied, repressed, suppressed will eventually get shifted into the body. It's not a new idea; it's just not widely accepted. There's a whole host of different ways to include this acceptance into treatment.

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
3/4/13 8:15 PM as a reply to Some Guy.
Some Guy:


A. Get all the diagnostic info you can.
1. Start with the least invasive/safest intervention.
2. Whatever modality you access, ask a lot of questions and study up. Patients who can advocate for themselves have a totally different experience than those who are at the mercy of their provider.
3. Whatever modality you access, try to find someone who is loved by their patients/clients. Sometimes it's just a cult of personality, but usually they're loved for good reason.
4. Pick the low-hanging fruit: Everything that happens in the body is affected by how you eat, exercise/work, and your mind. Making improvements in those three things can reduce the scope of your problem and make you more prone to healing.

Hope that helps. I love hearing everyone's opinions about this stuff.


I'd like to reply to these points.

A. The research I posted at http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199407143310201 proves that diagnosis by scan or x-ray is almost completely irrelevant. The large majority of people with no symptoms of back pain will have all manner of disc and joint pathologies, often unknown to them. There's almost no correlation between pain and pathology. Scans and x-rays should really only be performed if one suspects cancer.

1. Sounds good. Why have surgery when something simpler and less costly will fix you?
2. I would disagree strongly on this point. Those who do best are those who completely trust their practitioner and just let go. Those who fair poorly are those who have spent hours Googling their own diagnosis and possible treatments. If one decides to seek outside help, (and for some it's helpful), then trust and surrender will be essential.
3. I like this. Someone who is loved will have a high level of self-acceptance. He will be able to accept you as a patient without trying to force a solution. Without force, the solution happens on its own. Acceptance is key, and it needs to be genuine. Lots of practitioners fake it. A true healer has no need of sycophantic followers, and can fix people in just a few sessions. The best test is this: look at how many NEW patients he has in his weekly schedule. A ratio of 1:3 (new:repeat) is very high and will signal someone who is at the top of his game. Chiros generally see the same people each week, for years on end. Busyness is not a reliable measure. Nor is how long you have to wait for an appointment.

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
3/4/13 9:47 PM as a reply to This Good Self.
C C C:
My current thinking is broadly similar to John Sarno, Professor of Rehabilitation Medicine, New York University School of Medicine. Interview here: http://rense.com/general75/backpain.htm Note in particular what he says about "trying to be a good person". Buddhism anyone?


I have read John Sarno's book about back pain. I used to have neck pain. While I agree with what John Sarno has to say but eventually, he also doesn't have an idea as to how to relieve the pain and how to let go of the psychological stuff that is causing the pain.

Now I don't have an iota of neck pain and it feels as if I never had one to begin with. It is all because of Buddhist practices which have led me to let go of all the unnecessary psychological burden that was causing the neck pain. Not only has the neck pain gone but I've had a range of other health benefits as well.

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
3/4/13 10:39 PM as a reply to Change A..
Change A.:
C C C:
My current thinking is broadly similar to John Sarno, Professor of Rehabilitation Medicine, New York University School of Medicine. Interview here: http://rense.com/general75/backpain.htm Note in particular what he says about "trying to be a good person". Buddhism anyone?


I have read John Sarno's book about back pain. I used to have neck pain. While I agree with what John Sarno has to say but eventually, he also doesn't have an idea as to how to relieve the pain and how to let go of the psychological stuff that is causing the pain.

Now I don't have an iota of neck pain and it feels as if I never had one to begin with. It is all because of Buddhist practices which have led me to let go of all the unnecessary psychological burden that was causing the neck pain. Not only has the neck pain gone but I've had a range of other health benefits as well.


His approach could be described as the uncovering and acceptance (or reintegration) of unconscious rage. The letting go happens as a result of the acknowledgment and deep acceptance. Personally, I think this approach is best done by having a 3rd party who can "lead the way" in terms of providing an environment of acceptance.

Which particular Buddhist technique did you find was useful in curing your neck pain? I won't challenge it; I'm just interested, and others would be too obviously.

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
3/5/13 6:01 AM as a reply to Change A..
Change A.:
I have read John Sarno's book about back pain. I used to have neck pain. While I agree with what John Sarno has to say but eventually, he also doesn't have an idea as to how to relieve the pain and how to let go of the psychological stuff that is causing the pain.


He seems to have written a number of books. I just finished listening to his book The Mindbody Prescription: Healing the Body, Healing the Pain and it includes whole chapters on dealing with the cause of pain and dealing with psychological stuff (repressed rage).

Metta,
Simon

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
3/5/13 9:13 AM as a reply to Sleeping Buddha Syndrome.
Hey Guys,

I have been fiddling around with some of this advice and I am trying the following:

1: I noticed that I have had (for months now) a persistent kind of blockage feeling in the lower left below my kidney. I think it is right around a major lymph node, but I am not certain. Another thing I have noticed is that I have had the taste of salt in my mouth that has slowly been growing in intensity.

*I have decided to watch what I eat and drink a little more carefully (food and drink and my relationship to them is a complex, somewhat loaded topic that has slowly been evolving), trying to reduce my sodium intake and drink more fluids. Will see how this pans out.

2. As to the back pain, it is kind of hit or miss. Its really hard to tell exactly what is going on at this point, so I will just have to keep trying different things. I am trying to listen to my body in the most inclusive way possible, as it seems I have (had) quite a few assumptions on this matter. Getting to the bottom of it is kind of like solving a mystery or something.

*I am not quite ready to go see a professional about this for a couple reasons (mostly want to make sure it is a worthwhile investment), but perhaps will give this more thought if I can't seem to figure it out through my own adjustments to lifestyle, exercise, diet, etc.

Thanks for all the input once again.

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
3/5/13 9:48 AM as a reply to Sleeping Buddha Syndrome.
I'd get it checked out by a doctor, just in case. You might have a kidney infection or something similar:

http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/kidney-infections-symptoms-and-treatments

I know my mom has gotten one before and not known other than the back pain. There were no other symptoms besides just feeling generally ill.

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
3/5/13 10:50 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
C C C:

I'd like to reply to these points.

A. The research I posted at http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199407143310201 proves that diagnosis by scan or x-ray is almost completely irrelevant. The large majority of people with no symptoms of back pain will have all manner of disc and joint pathologies, often unknown to them. There's almost no correlation between pain and pathology. Scans and x-rays should really only be performed if one suspects cancer.


You can use some treatments as an elimination diagnosis. That doesn't mean diagnosis is irrelevant. This is what the study you posted shows (from the conclusion): "Given the high prevalence of these findings and of back pain, the discovery by MRI of bulges or protrusions in people with low back pain may frequently be coincidental." It's interesting, but certainly doesn't support the statement, "there's almost no correlation between pain and pathology." There are a lot of serious pathologies besides disc bulges.

Since you say this is your field, I have to point out your victim-blaming: "...What you will see is unhappy people of lower income and lower intelligence, and sometimes middle/high income/intelligence people with horrible relationships and self esteem...."

Do you have data to support that? I would like to see it. It seems to me this is just the dark side of positive-thinking ideology. I can't see how it helps anyone.

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
3/5/13 9:30 PM as a reply to This Good Self.
C C C:
His approach could be described as the uncovering and acceptance (or reintegration) of unconscious rage. The letting go happens as a result of the acknowledgment and deep acceptance. Personally, I think this approach is best done by having a 3rd party who can "lead the way" in terms of providing an environment of acceptance.

Which particular Buddhist technique did you find was useful in curing your neck pain? I won't challenge it; I'm just interested, and others would be too obviously.


Tibetan deity visualization had the most effect but even before starting that, just the general mindfulness meditation had started to make things better for me. Also, kum nye (Tibetan yoga) helped quite a bit.

I think the Tibetan deity visualization (wrathful deities) can be very useful in bringing out the unconscious rage.

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
3/6/13 5:19 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
ok thanks ChangeA

Some Guy,

In the article it says:

"The most common non-intervertebral disk abnormalities in people without symptoms were Schmorl's nodes (herniation into the vertebral-body end plate), in 19 percent of the subjects; annular defects (disruption of the outer fibrous ring of the disk), in 14 percent; and facet arthropathy (degenerative disease of the posterior articular processes of the vertebrae), in 8 percent. Seven percent of the asymptomatic subjects had spondylolysis, 7 percent had spondylolisthesis, 7 percent had stenosis of the central canal, and 7 percent had stenosis of the neural foramen".

So the study looked at everything, not just disc pathologies.

The standard medical treatment for chronic pain is antidepressants, and here's just a few papers explaining why....

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/030439599290113P
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22846678
http://www.iasp-pain.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Home&Template=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=12163
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21835893
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17180640
http://siba.unipv.it/fisica/articoli/P/Pain2006_121_195.pdf


Avoidance, fear, aversion....

This is why I bang on about acceptance.

99% of patients have very strong ego defense mechanisms that get triggered the moment the word "psychology" is mentioned in relation to their pain. Deep down they know it's true, which is why there's such a strong reaction. Hence the difficulty.

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
4/2/13 10:20 AM as a reply to Sleeping Buddha Syndrome.
Hello Everyone,

I thought I would post an update.

So a short while after starting this thread, I had kind of a difficult episode where I kind of let some dark night stuff bleed through into my life. This came partially in the form of my complaining about my back. As a result of this, I agreed that I would be a good idea to get a doctors opinion on the matter.
We went to see our family doctor, and she order an X-Ray, which came out negative. Then bloodwork and a CT scan were ordered (she was wondering if I could have had Marfans or something else like this as I am very tall). Everything looked good, except for the fact that the doctor said I was severely constipated.

Anyway, for this latter matter, the Doc said that it might be a good idea to take a laxative or something. I kind of balked at this idea, as I have been taking huge doses of magnesium in different forms and it doesn't seem to do much to soften or unloose anything.
What I told my parents was that I think my stubborn ego grasping is causing the muscles around the digestive organs to be severely restricted. I have felt this to be the case for some time now.

I suggested to my mom that I go on a three day juice fast instead, which I started yesterday at lunch.

Now I am feeling a bit apprehensive, I feel fairly decent right now not having heavy food on my stomach, but another part of me is all worried that I am not getting protein etc. I feel like I am always raging a battle against myself and other people on the matter of food, whether it be what to eat, how to to waste things, what to buy, etc., and this is no exception (although I am trying not to let it bother me).

This morning when I woke up the pain in my back seemed to be more evenly distributed between the front and back of my body in the region of my gut, more on the left side.


I guess my big issue right now is:

"I am always fatigued and can barely do chores around the house without getting tired. I want to be healthy and have the ability to make decisions again so I can help those I love (working, taking initiative, encouraging, etc), because I feel like I am making them suffer tremendously. My mom has aged a lot in the year since I came crashing down here at home, at it just breaks my heart I can't help her and other family members, etc who seem to be down. I wish I knew a way that I could practice and get my body and mind healthy, but dharma practice seems to be a double edged sword..it either doesn't give me the results I want or if I try to push it I descend in to hellish, fearful states of mind that are really disconcerting."

I appreciate anyone's feedback.

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
4/2/13 1:29 PM as a reply to Sleeping Buddha Syndrome.
I'm glad your scans and blood work were all clear. At least you don't have to wonder "what if...?!!" A juice fast won't kill you. It's what you learn from it and how you change your habits after that matters. If it seems to help your back or constipation, then you know you're on to something. Diet is a common culprit in lots of problems.

Still, when you don't know how to interpret the signs and sort through all the options, why not get help? This stuff is a bit complex to work out on a forum. I like Nikolai's suggestion to get massage or acupuncture. As for the ongoing dark night issues, it seems like you could really use a one-on-one connection with a teacher.

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
4/2/13 6:40 PM as a reply to Some Guy.
reading the book Healing Back Pain by John Sarno cured my back pain many years ago. It was bad I spent like a week in bed.

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
4/2/13 11:01 PM as a reply to Cedric ..
Cedric, could have been the week in bed. emoticon

For most people it's easier to have someone lead the process, but you did well to make it work for yourself. What would you say you learnt from the process? What breakthroughs and insights did you make?

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
4/4/13 1:36 PM as a reply to This Good Self.
Well, it was like 10 years ago, so the memories that I am currently fabricating/analysis relative to it are pretty fuzzy. But John Sarno says that most back pain is psychosomatic. This, at a minimum, was true for me. Upon occasion I have a twinge of back pain, and I just look at it and decide to pay it no further mind and it doesn't create further problems
I hope that helps.
Cedric

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
4/4/13 10:15 PM as a reply to Sleeping Buddha Syndrome.
A D R:
What I told my parents was that I think my stubborn ego grasping is causing the muscles around the digestive organs to be severely restricted. I have felt this to be the case for some time now.


Right on, check out the navel center thread and try out the exercise described in the video that is linked there and see if it helps.

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
4/5/13 8:41 AM as a reply to Change A..
Change A.:
A D R:
What I told my parents was that I think my stubborn ego grasping is causing the muscles around the digestive organs to be severely restricted. I have felt this to be the case for some time now.


Right on, check out the navel center thread and try out the exercise described in the video that is linked there and see if it helps.


Thanks, I will try it out.

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
4/5/13 12:23 PM as a reply to Change A..
Change A.:
A D R:
What I told my parents was that I think my stubborn ego grasping is causing the muscles around the digestive organs to be severely restricted. I have felt this to be the case for some time now.


Right on, check out the navel center thread and try out the exercise described in the video that is linked there and see if it helps.


It was interesting, but nothing tangible came of it.

I am getting really desperate. I don't know how one can manage to get constipated on a juice fast, but its been 48 hours now. I think I will switch to water only, if that doesn't work I might try water with laxatives.

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
4/5/13 11:20 PM as a reply to Sleeping Buddha Syndrome.
A D R:
It was interesting, but nothing tangible came of it.

I am getting really desperate. I don't know how one can manage to get constipated on a juice fast, but its been 48 hours now. I think I will switch to water only, if that doesn't work I might try water with laxatives.


Ok, so you are looking for something to work right now. Well then exercises like these won't be able to help that fast, only laxatives can.

RE: How I recover My body from back pain
Answer
7/9/18 2:04 AM as a reply to Sleeping Buddha Syndrome.
I suffered for back pain since 7 years. Also I got many treatment but major failed. One of my orthopedic doctor prescribed to natural treatment. Such as Exercise , changed Sleeping position, fix my posture and changed my desk chair and  doctor suggest me to use back pain chair or recliner chair which was effective to rid of my back pain . I was work long time 10 to 12 hours in office and it was cause of my back pain. Now i am fine and I am doing these everyday.

Thanks

top 5 back pain Solutions
Answer
7/10/18 1:40 AM as a reply to Sleeping Buddha Syndrome.
if you are suffering from any back pain then don’t avoid this problem because it became very serious according to time passed. In severe cases, medical attention may be necessary, but if your pain is less severe, then yoga will be able to help to reduce back pain problem. There are lots of back pain yoga exercise which strengthen or stretch your spine and makes it more flexible. So here we placed top 5 yoga poses for back pain which really helps you in lower back pain.As I have Read on [url=]Yoga Guru Site There are many yoga poses according to Your Need .
 I also Feel Many changes in my body after Yoga Sessions of Yoga Guru. You can also Check this Page.  https://yogaguru.co.in/top-5-yoga-poses-for-back-pain/

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
11/12/18 3:10 AM as a reply to Sleeping Buddha Syndrome.
I also had problems with my back, a massage chair helped, 2 hours 3 times a week and the pain began to slowly pass. If someone is interested, on http://thebestreclinersreviews.com/best-massage-recliners/ I found the best chairs.

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
11/12/18 5:15 AM as a reply to Sleeping Buddha Syndrome.
There's a fitness and wellness coeach called Emily Larks that has a DVD called The Complete Healthy Back System. You may want to check her out: https://healthskeptic.org/back-life-program-review/

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
3/8/19 6:29 PM as a reply to Sleeping Buddha Syndrome.
I really hope you've already found a solution for your back pain after all those years. I just stumbled on this thread because I am looking for answers as well. But I've figured out that the mattress I am currently using is not supportive at all. I have't visited a doctor yet because my back pain isnt that severe but I have done a few changes. First, I recently bought a better mattress. I've heard a lot of praises about it so I hope it will really help with my back. I am also doing lots of yoga, inversion therapy, and other workouts. I also suffer from si joint pain and Ive found great relief from using a sacroiliac belt. . I've also invested in a really good living room chair and ditched by old unsupportive chair. 

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
3/8/19 9:54 PM as a reply to Sleeping Buddha Syndrome.
I used to have a lot of back and neck pain. I healed it with a mix of:

- reading Dr. Sarno book and cutting the fear / aversion / inner drama about the pain.

- practicing hot yoga for 5 months.

- MOST RELEVANT: Wim Hof (The Ice Man) breathing method. This method makes your body more alkaline and ends any inflammation.

I strongly recommend this mix!

Nowadays I only do a bit of yoga once and a while and some Wim Hof breathing if I feel that my body is a bit hurt from the gym.

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
3/9/19 7:24 AM as a reply to Cláudio Cruz.

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
3/14/19 4:47 AM as a reply to Sleeping Buddha Syndrome.
There are a lot of ways that can help you to relieve your back pain. Few of them are maintain the right sitting and sleeping posture, never lifting a heavy object, do exercise regularly, eat a healthy diet, using a massage recliner, avoid slouching and hunching etc. I was suffering from lower back pain a few months ago. My doctor recommended me to do some exercise and use massage recliner chair for a long time sitting. I got many help to choose the great recliner chair from this website. I am now free from lower back pain and still doing back exercise at home.

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
3/14/19 8:49 PM as a reply to Patrick Robertson.
check out "healing back pain" by John Sarno.  Really good.

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
3/15/19 8:48 AM as a reply to Sleeping Buddha Syndrome.
I have had back problems.

Yoga, Yoga, Yoga!

Particuarly the upward cobra, is great for the lower back, if it is a disc issue.  

Full flow Yoga could really help you I reckon.

Also hot yoga is fantastic for this if it it muscular.

Namaste 

RE: Back Pain Solutions
Answer
3/21/19 12:24 PM as a reply to Sleeping Buddha Syndrome.
Back pain is a condition that influences numerous individuals. The seriousness can change from inconspicuous and transitory to supported and dependable and since there are numerous reasons for this sort of pain usually difficult to treat. The issue with back pain is that it doesn't just influence the spinal territory; it can likewise influence different pieces of the body because of this being the center zone of the body. For example, if a nerve is squeezed, it can influence the legs and arms also and if your back is harming, you may support one side and this can cause issues in different regions of your body. There are various reasons that cause back pain such as wrong sitting on the chair, bad sleeping posture, lifting heavy bag/box/object, slouching, hunching, stress, irregular exercise, etc. You can do some back exercise to relieve your back pain.