Hi,

Recently I've noticed that I'm able to get beyond what I have identified as the eighth jhana.

The first shift after that is much like the Formless Realm jhanas, but is more bodily and has a lot of bliss. I am then able to progress through a few more changes of state. I haven't really tried stopping in any of them, but they are very open in perspective. They seem to be centered around my forehead. At some point, I am able to enter a state that seems very dark and feels very much like my mind has shut down. There's literally nothing going on. Is it possible that this is Nirodha Samapatti?

Dear Dee,

Various schools of thought exist around here regarding NS, and various criteria get bandied about.

I personally am rather old-school about what you should call NS. There should be no experience, no time, no anything whatsoever about which to make a judgement, no basis for comparison, as the texts say, not even "nothing going on", but more like "total and complete world and attentional power outage and then recovery". In this it might be said to be very much like a Fruition except that the setup, entrance, exit, and afterglow are totally different. NS is like having the main breaker on all experience thrown and then popped back on again.

How do you differentiate 7th jhana (nothingness) from the state you are calling nothing going on?

How about 8th?

Are you sure it is not one of those? The would seem likely candidates...

Daniel

Hmm, yeah, it's definitely not NS. There is time and experience.

I also am pretty sure it's not jhana 7 or 8. I'm able to rise in a controlled manner through the first eight stages and they all accord very closely to descriptions I've read of them. The OP state is somewhere beyond them. It is much more expansive, while 7 and 8 feel constricted. When I come out of it, it feels like various parts of my mind are coming 'online' in quick succession and I get some physical manifestations such as pressure on the inner arms.

Just now, I went into the 8th jhana by focusing on the third eye, inclined my mind towards NS, and exited the 8th jhana. I shortly got into some state that I didn't recognize, but again it was definitely not NS.