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My experience with Iboga

My experience with Iboga
Answer
3/18/13 11:05 AM
I got myself into some serious re-observation recently. It's was more than I could handle. I ended up using mushrooms everyday to ease to tension. When I would get into equanimity, the tension and confusion prevented me to function at all. Mushrooms ack as a muscle relaxant in sub-psychedelic dosage but doesn't really help to make progress.

I had ordered iboga and felt it was time to try it. Iboga is used in the treatment of addiction, especially opiates like heroin. All the report I read about it were positive. Actually, they are very positive! One treatment is enough to get them free of long-time addiction. There is a documentary on youtube about it.

I took about 1/20 of the dosage recommended for a treatment (flood dose). I read that people have positive result with small dosage like this. Higher dosage would have been too risky to do alone. The thing is, it's not a fun thing to do. You are almost guaranteed to vomit and you can be up to 48 hours without being able to walk by yourself.

So, what Iboga does? It help your relax your muscle. Like really really relax and it improve your attention at the same time. You get to see the connection between a fear or memory and a specific tension in the body. Then, you just pay attention to it and let it relax. And it stay relaxed. You basically delete stress from your memory.

Even at such small dosage, the therapeutic effect has been phenomenal. I took it this weekend so it will take some time before I can measure the longterm effect. I expect to do another dose when my time allow it since I was left with some unbalance muscular tension.

I consider myself in Equanimity now. So, my memory remains poor I cannot do any work (I'm a computer programmer) as it it always the case in some part of this stage for me. There is not much Enlightenment craving left.


Could it be possible that those addict get themselves out of re-observation with Iboga? It seems to me very plausible.

RE: My experience with Iboga
Answer
3/18/13 9:27 PM as a reply to Simon T..
Simon T.:
So, what Iboga does? It help your relax your muscle. Like really really relax and it improve your attention at the same time. You get to see the connection between a fear or memory and a specific tension in the body. Then, you just pay attention to it and let it relax. And it stay relaxed. You basically delete stress from your memory.


Cool, thanks for your report. Seems to me like turbocharging your meditation practice x 10. I would be interested in listening about the long term effects of this.

RE: My experience with Iboga
Answer
3/18/13 10:38 PM as a reply to Simon T..
Simon T.:
There is a documentary on youtube about it.


Which documentary are you talking about? Can you post a link?

RE: My experience with Iboga
Answer
3/19/13 1:27 AM as a reply to Simon T..
I am interested in obtaining some to help me with my tobacco addiction,

RE: My experience with Iboga
Answer
3/19/13 8:24 PM as a reply to Change A..
Change A.:
Simon T.:
There is a documentary on youtube about it.


Which documentary are you talking about? Can you post a link?


Here it is:


Iboga: Rite of passage

RE: My experience with Iboga
Answer
3/19/13 8:40 PM as a reply to Change A..
Change A.:
Simon T.:
So, what Iboga does? It help your relax your muscle. Like really really relax and it improve your attention at the same time. You get to see the connection between a fear or memory and a specific tension in the body. Then, you just pay attention to it and let it relax. And it stay relaxed. You basically delete stress from your memory.


Cool, thanks for your report. Seems to me like turbocharging your meditation practice x 10. I would be interested in listening about the long term effects of this.


x 10 is an understatement. Seriously, it's too incredible to even be said on an infomercial. Now, what is a staying power of the change is hard to say. If it can make people stop taking heroin overnight (and it does), it's because it give a long enough window of opportunity to make the life change to avoid getting in the old habits. That doesn't mean stuff will not bubble up to the surface eventually.

RE: My experience with Iboga
Answer
8/10/13 5:02 AM as a reply to Simon T..
Simon T:

Can you give us an update on this subject? It's been a few months and I'm curious about your reflections on the experience at this point. Have you experimented further or have your feelings changed?

Thanks!

edit: silly me addressed this to the wrong person...

RE: My experience with Iboga
Answer
8/10/13 7:37 AM as a reply to tsetse fly.
tsetse fly:
Simon T:

Can you give us an update on this subject? It's been a few months and I'm curious about your reflections on the experience at this point. Have you experimented further or have your feelings changed?

Thanks!

edit: silly me addressed this to the wrong person...


What I said pretty much still stand. My Iboga experience got rid of a bunch of tension that prevented me from moving to high equanimity. Since then I have been able to move from low to high equanimity almost everyday without too much pain. Still, I have to admit that the progress in the last few months wasn't spectacular, my practice in the cushion being weak and it's still challenging to bring relaxation into my life. In a way, I was trying too hard, caring too much, wanting too much to make progress. It's a mindset that could work in a very goal-oriented retreat like a Mahasi retreat, if we can take the heat, but
I decided to work on relaxation instead. I ordered some Iboga again (I did 1 gram in total so far, my plan is to do a full dose which would be 3.5 gram TA) but I have been able to stay closer to high equanimity (that is, waking up in the morning past the mini dark night instead of falling back to low equanimity during the night) for the last few days so I'm reporting my plan of doing it again. I take 400 mg of high absorption magnesium 2 times a day which act as a muscle relaxant. I also resumed taking Lyrica before going to bed which also act as a muscle relaxant. They are interesting substance since they don't have much of a rebound effect when you stop taking them.

Now, I have better access to high equanimity. I attribute it to my recent use of LSD. I didn't want to talk about it before I get more data on this so bear that this is very experimental I everything I'm saying here could be proven wrong in the next few weeks. The paradox I was experiencing is that the more relaxed I was getting, the more cognitively impaired I was, it part explained by the fact that I was spending more time in this sub-stage close to high-equanimity which is cognitively impairing. I had used low dose of mushroom in the past at my jobs to deal with that (I'm a computer programmer) but mushrooms are very tricky and kind of slow down progress and have somewhat of a rebound effect when we stop. I came to the conclusion that we shouldn't take psychedelics until high equanimity. LSD is more forgiving and if we take a low dose enough it's not going to prevent prevent moving from low to high equanimity. But the dosage has to be very low, something like 1/8 to 1/4 of a tab. If distortion appear, it's that someone is taking too much and pushing too much on the mind without the proper relaxation. What we are looking for is attentive relaxation. So, beside the fact that it helped me with cognitive impairment and maintain my job, it's in high equanimity where it appears they can assist progress. When the mind is soft and round and we can really hold it with all our energy. LSD enable pushing it further. As an example, my parents make me very anxious, so with a low dose of LSD I was able to expose myself to that anxiety and really work on it and soften it. I also worked on my sexuality, desires I believe I could live without, exposing myself to explicit image and dissolve every bits of self that would arise. LSD is of no use on the cushion, someone has to expose himself to stimuli (it can be movies, social life, work, etc) that unearth the self and make the experience uncomfortable and it's appear that only high equanimity allow this kind of deep work.

I'm not recommending doing those things. They are experiments and like any experiment in life, they can go wrong. I realize that I didn't warn people of the danger of Iboga. It should never be taken alone as someone loose autonomy on it (don't even think of getting up to go to the bathroom), you are guaranteed to vomit and there is a number of death attributed to people choking in their vomit. There is also a number of death caused by heart attack. Cognitive impairment lasted for a few days after for me but it can be more in some case. Those are one of the most powerful substances in the world. Iboga is one of the most awful experience I ever had.

RE: My experience with Iboga
Answer
8/10/13 12:39 PM as a reply to Simon T..
May I recommend a slightly less intense chemistry approach? Try coffee for alertness and add L-Theanine to the magnesium. I have had good luck with this in getting the balance of alert and relaxed that facilitates getting to EQ. They are all legal and very forgiving(and taste good) and can be done every day. Watch the coffee...it tastes so good I have problems not drinking a whole cup of half caf, and that is too much for my system. Another legal item to try is Noopept with some Choline...I am still not decided on this for meditation alertness balance but I like the mindfulness it brings thru out the day.
Good luck,
~D

RE: My experience with Iboga
Answer
8/10/13 6:58 PM as a reply to Dream Walker.
Dream Walker:
May I recommend a slightly less intense chemistry approach? Try coffee for alertness and add L-Theanine to the magnesium. I have had good luck with this in getting the balance of alert and relaxed that facilitates getting to EQ. They are all legal and very forgiving(and taste good) and can be done every day. Watch the coffee...it tastes so good I have problems not drinking a whole cup of half caf, and that is too much for my system. Another legal item to try is Noopept with some Choline...I am still not decided on this for meditation alertness balance but I like the mindfulness it brings thru out the day.
Good luck,
~D


I eliminated coffee from my diet (with a few occasional exception) as I found it slowed down my progress. The alertness from coffee comes with an high price in anxiety. It might be fine in high-equanimity but found it to be a problem before.The fear of death or paranoia we can experience in the mini dark night is amplified by caffeine and it create tension that become stumbling blocks. The ratio of lethal dosage vs active dosage is much much lower for LSD than caffeine (source). Of course, there is the issue of purity of what you get from the black market. Considering that dosage are in the micro-grams, you would need some nasty chemical to be a real problems but I guess it shouldn't be ruled out. As you noted, coffee as some addictive properties. The idea that we like it so much because of the taste is bogus. Same goes for alcohol. There is plenty of tasty liquid that don't have any mental effects and we don't feel so compelled to drink them. Again, LSD has a dependence profile that is better than caffeine. Still, like any substance that improve our mood it has a psychological dependence risk.

The biggest risk of LSD is that it can re-wire our brains too fast or unearth some un-healthy aspect of our mental make-up. So, if I start to sound even more crazy than usual at some point, you will know why.

I tried noopept a few years ago and didn't have any effect from it. Theanine is great and I take it before sleep sometimes but tolerance build up fast.

RE: My experience with Iboga
Answer
8/10/13 4:32 PM as a reply to Simon T..
Try phenibut for sleep as it works better to make you drowsy. L-Theanine makes me relaxed without actual tiredness.
There is also anaracetam and oxyracetam to try in the Nootropic family....I've not played with them much in meditation but anaracetam makes you tired and oxy makes you awake...
I would look at articles about MDA/MDMA therapy instead of LSD.
Good luck,
~D

RE: My experience with Iboga
Answer
8/10/13 5:29 PM as a reply to Simon T..
Thanks Simon!

That was detailed way beyond my expectations. I have little experience or knowledge of psychodelics, but once wrote a newspaper article on Ibogaine. Found it hugely interesting and have been surprised at how little attention or research has been generated based on the early successes with addiction.

It's not everyone's cup of tea here, but please continue to update with your experience with LSD, etc. Strangley enough, Jed McKenna even gives a thinly-veiled endorsement of LSD in the "bonus" section of his third, I think, ebook (also contained in the printed "Notebook" edition, I'm told). Calls it the Golden Door to enlightenment--which seems very out-of-character if you've read all his work--and he makes a good case for its judicious use.

Very best to you on your path ahead, and thanks for the response!

RE: My experience with Iboga
Answer
8/10/13 6:52 PM as a reply to Dream Walker.
Dream Walker:
Try phenibut for sleep as it works better to make you drowsy. L-Theanine makes me relaxed without actual tiredness.
There is also anaracetam and oxyracetam to try in the Nootropic family....I've not played with them much in meditation but anaracetam makes you tired and oxy makes you awake...
I would look at articles about MDA/MDMA therapy instead of LSD.
Good luck,
~D


Phenibut tolerance develop extremely fast. Actually, anything that play with the Gaba system as tolerance and rebound issue. I never got very good results out of aniracetam. Indeed, it was making me tired. I did use oxyracetam for a considerable amount of time in the past but it would give me an edgy feeling. Good old piracetam remained my favorite (but I not longer use it) but was still unpredictable. MDMA has some toxicity issues but shouldn't be much of a problem for using once in a while. I have the feeling that MDMA increase how strongly we encode an emotion in memory. Combined with the mood elevating effect, it works great to re-encode traumatizing memories in a more relaxed way. On the other hand, it doesn't seem to improve actual muscular relaxation that much. It only block the pain signal.

RE: My experience with Iboga
Answer
11/11/13 6:27 PM as a reply to Simon T..
I want to write an update on my various experiences with substances. It's still quite experimental but I got some interesting data I would like to share. I did some more experiment with Iboga, some with relatively high dose (about 700 mg TA) and with daily microdoses (10-20 mg). It is indeed a quite amazing substance with strong potential for the treatment of addictions. Bear in mind that most of my experiment are done while being in low equanimity. Being at another stage would probably give different results. I used it a few times while being in high equanimity and it was quite useless and didn't make me progress. On the other hand, it can help quite a bit do deal with affects in low equanimity. I used it in low dose to get rid of bad habits and compulsive behaviours . The trick is to use a low dose and challenge oneself to result an urge. You get to dissolve the tension behind the bad habit.

When I use it in higher dose, I meditate quite a bit on death and the prospect of loosing my relatives. I got to cry quite a bit and gained enormous relaxation out of this. When I get to the end of this, I watch sad movies to make me cry even more. The relaxation I gained in my limbs is quite substantial. It follow a law of diminished returns and it seems I pretty much got all I could get from it.

In a way, what we gain from it is "permanent" but I'm cautious about that statement. I know from experience that going back to re-observation could bring back a lot of affect but it's much easier to get out of it. In a way, we get to bypass the circuits I the origin of the affects but the circuitry is still all there in our brain and could be re-activated. Only getting to the next path would guarantee a more permanent re-wiring of the brain.

So, Iboga is very useful to works with affects at the edge between low and high equanimity. It's probably something people interested in AF would be more interested in as it doesn't deal with non-duality directly.

My ability to access high equanimity as been affected by my various experiences, sometimes positively and sometimes negatively. To access high equanimity, a relaxation in the lower back must happens. Our back is like the hub where all the tension in our body connects, like a web. When our limbs get more relaxed, the balance of tension change. Living at the edge between low and high equanimity is quite annoying as this is the most cognitive impairing stage of all. One of the reason I rely on substance is to avoid getting stuck at this place in order to keep being able to do my job as a programmer.

It's not so evident that reducing affects (with the help of Iboga in that case) will make accessing the next path easier. Life is surely much less debilitating. Before, moving in low equanimity was like walking in a cemetery full of zombies. Now, at this sub-stage I experience only some paranoia or resentment. It's interesting to see that all the sub-stages of equanimity Daniel documented still happens but only toned-down. The problem is that the motivation to practice depends on the ratio between how much it suck to practices versus how much it sucks to not practice. Now that I reached a degree of relaxation that is quite nice, I really need to kick myself in the ass to do difficult practice like walking meditation. Still, this kind of practice is the only way I will get this thing done. So, reducing affects is a double-edge sword.

Beside Iboga, I found that my experiment with Caapi tea (a component of Ayahuasca) to leave a lasting positive effect. It's one of the most meditative substance and allow dealing with difficult tension in a way similar to Iboga but more gentle.
It seems that LSD isn't quite useful and the same goes for mushrooms. Actually, my experience with LSD made me being somewhat more delusional than usual and made me exhibits some weird social behaviors. I will have to get back in touch with a few friends that have been victims of my strangeness and I hope we will have a good laugh about it.

Beside that, I'm experimenting with dream-inducing herbs. I want to explore various ways to deal with fears during our sleep. It seems that one of the function of sleep is to experiment with various scary scenarios in a safe virtual environment.
By the way, be careful with all those substances if you are to try them. Some of them could kill you if not used properly. So read about the effects and interaction. If you are interested to know more about my experiment, feel free to contact me in private by e-mail or skype (simontanguay at hotmail com)