Hi all,

I've been unsure since reading MCTB about a year ago what "vibrations" actually feel like. I guess at some level all sensations are vibratory, so it's easy to get vague here. But there are basically two classes of sensation that occur to me during practice which I am thinking could be what is meant by "vibrations". One is what Goenka describes as "subtle sensations" that seem to occur for me pretty much continuously even when not meditating, although that was not always the case by any means (described shortly). The other class of sensations is a deep rumbling or shaking that I experience much less often (also described below).

The reason I am seeking clarification is to aid with diagnosing "where I am at" (MCTB uses vibrations as the Gold Standard for this) and to provide another object of meditation other than my current objects (feet while walking, abdomen while sitting) that could be more open and therefore more useful at certain stages of my practice.

Firstly, the "subtle sensations". I first got them on retreat at my local Goenka centre. Only noticeable on my scalp to begin with, although as I practised I began to notice them elsewhere. The retreat ended before I could explore most of the larger blind areas, although I particularly remember late in the retreat paying especially close attention to my thighs, a major blind area at the time. It felt like something was resisting, but I persisted ... persisted ... and suddenly POP! As I scanned from hip to knee, slowly, my mind's eye was assailed by horrifying images of all kinds. Rotting, submerged corpses, suicides, generic "monsters" etc. It was really quite scary. I completed the sit, getting these horrifying visions every time I had to scan through the thighs, and left the hall rather shaken. But thenceforward, my thigh area was no longer blind (and thankfully the fearful images have not reoccurred with such intensity). It wasn't until after retreat that I read other people's descriptions of the insight stage Fear.

Then about a week into a more recent retreat I suddenly realised that I could now detect those little "subtle sensations" anywhere on my body, pretty much at will. I didn't notice when this began to be possible for me, there was no fanfare. Simply one moment it was hit and miss, the next moment my body was made of a zillion tiny particles and there were no blind areas to be found.

Nowadays I find that this awareness waxes and wanes a little, but is pretty much as on that last retreat: zillions of little bubbles bursting throughout the surface and depth of my body, even when not practising. On the bus, at work, cooking dinner etc.

However, I'm not sure I'd describe them as "vibrations" particularly, because I can't detect any kind of cycle-rate (Hz) to them. They seem to be happening all over, all the time and I have not been able to count the speed of a single bubble arising and passing. They also do move in waves of intensity that shift around my body, but those waves move very slowly, migrating down an arm over the course of five-ten seconds for example.

The other class of sensations that occur and could perhaps be vibrations is a shaking or rumbling type feeling that I get in various parts of my body. This one is a lot less widespread, usually occurring in my chest, arm or leg, and feels as though there were a diesel engine juddering away in the affected area. On retreat this shaking has at times become so pronounced that I cannot continue walking meditation and must simply stand waiting for them to subside. I can detect a cycle-rate for these, but it is always within a narrow 4-8Hz range. This shaking/juddering also doesn't occur very often and the cycle-rate doesn't change with either the breath or the insight stage I may be experiencing.

Any thoughts on whether either of these are/are not "vibrations"?

Jules

Sounds like vibrations to me!

There was another thread posted somewhere here perhaps in the wetpaint section which talked about what a vibration was. I'll try and find it.

Edited to include: For me, vibrations are felt as...vibrations. That is what the body feels like at the subtlest level. Just a flow of vibrations. Not exactly like pins and needles but similar. But some might feel it as a flow of changing energy, ants crawling etc as Goenka constantly says. If a sensations feels "solid", look closer and you'll feel it really isn't. Mate, I wouldn't worry about whether they match up with the vibrations that Daniel describes...what you are experiencing is exactly what I have been experiencing for years and it got me over the line. Don't look for what Daniel experienced....you are already experiencing sensations/vibrations.

Here you go! Hope this helps. But what you describe sounds like vibrations to me.

http://bit.ly/dfDlYS

Nick

From an energy perspective:

When I use the term energy or vibrations I am refering to what you discovered at your Goenka retreat. I feel the 'shaking or rumbling' you speak of is closely related as follows:

The vibrations appear when locked in (blocked) energy/tension/trauma starts breaking up. As a blockage proceeds the sense of subtle sensations fades away - (which is directly related to why we say that in energy work if you notice a strong sense of energy that it is actually because there is still blockage there). These blockages are many - like hundreds of layers of skin (or armour) that need to be worked through. Thus, once you work through one, the sensations slowly dissipate (this is a good sign) and then another one is encountered and the cycle repeats. Each break-up is accompanied by a release that may appear in a wide variety of ways such as images, video, sounds, emotions, thought storms, etc. This is what dark nights are from my energetic perspective. Sometimes the break-up is pretty clean other times there is a period where we hold/release, hold/release, hold/release which causes the shaking sensations. Blockages are actually a form of embodied fear and there are periods when we are not at a deep level quite ready to totally let go into that fear - or more accurately - what that fear is covering over.

There are a number of techniques for working with the shaking. There is a thread by Tom Otvos that has lots of good tips.

-Chuck

Hi Nikolai, Chuck, sorry for my late reply. For the last couple of weeks I've been practicing whenever I have a spare moment, which has made my engagement with DhO virtually non-existent.

I just wanted to thank you both for your replies, which have helped me put to rest a tangle of doubts I'd been struggling with for a few months. These doubts centered around comparing my own experience with others. Through the process of carrying these doubts and now releasing them to a large extent, I'm starting to recognise (hopefully at a deep level this time) that subjective experience is all there is; ironically this is partly due to the advice of other people such as yourselves.

I'm still practicing with body sensations, at times working with vibratory experiences and at other times noting deep tensions, release, shaking etc. One area I had always struggled with previously was noting mental sensations (vaguely referred to as "thought" by most traditions/techniques). On that thread you linked to Nikolai, C4Chaos had linked to some articles or videos by Shinzen Young. He has some very practical advice for working with both visual and verbal thinking ("images" and "talk" in his lingo), in particular "Working With Mental Images" (PDF, http://www.shinzen.org/shinsub3/artWorkWithImage.pdf) and "Experiences Associated With Meditating on the Thought Process" (PDF, http://www.shinzen.org/shinsub3/artExperAssoc.pdf). As he notes in the first article "By separating thought into two parts, we divide its gripping power. A hundred-pound rock represents a crushing weight. Two fifty-pound rocks can be handled, albeit with effort."

I've extended my sits out to an hour, with around 40 minutes specifically set aside for noting mental sensations (mostly images at present, as I find they come thick and fast). This has been calming my mind nicely, to the point where I can really focus on bodily sensation. At some point I switch to noting those. Equanimity is much greater when the flow of thoughts is no longer disruptive. Shinzen Young also has a good article on body noting called "Four Facets of Body Sensation" (PDF, http://www.shinzen.org/shinsub3/artFourFacets.pdf). The results are so far quite promising and insight is flowing. I am quite the Shinzen fanboy at present : )

So again, thanks to you both for providing the initial warmth that has lead to the current period of fruitful growth. All the best for your own practice.

Jules