Hello, James.

Dale Stoner, modified 10 Years ago at 4/1/13 1:05 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 4/1/13 1:05 PM

Hello, James.

Posts: 17 Join Date: 4/1/13 Recent Posts
Well it appears that someone quickly discovered who I was and revealed my identity!

Of course this was with the intent of discrediting EVERYTHING I was about to say, without actually addressing my points. That having been said, before everyone jumps on the "James is insane, therefore everything he says is wrong, bandwagon."

I thought I would pre-empt that, and actually, raise every single critique of this community that I have... So that they can be addressed, in and of themselves.

As opposed to, addressing, blaming, discrediting, reverse-trolling, judging, condemning, banning, categorizing, separating or just plain hating me.

So here is what I see as a problem:

  • Attainment-whoring, over-emphasis on attainment and not actual substantial change in the individual.
  • Emphasis on "noting", AKA mental-labeling, which doesn't really seem to produce any sort of liberation.


That's basically it.

HOWEVER, I do respect, condone, and otherwise appreciate this community existing. And I do believe, that you guys are enlightened or partially enlightened or whatever enlightened.

I merely see a problem with the above points.

OK, now you can ban me.

However don't selectively delete posts and respond to only the ones you like so as to produce the image of me being totally wrong.

:-D
Dale Stoner, modified 10 Years ago at 4/1/13 1:07 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 4/1/13 1:07 PM

RE: Hello, James.

Posts: 17 Join Date: 4/1/13 Recent Posts
I also don't apologize for anything.

As I was being completely and 100% serious whenever I posted here in the past.

It really seems that in general everyone thought I wasn't, and thus I "played along", but in reality I am being serious when I post here or otherwise critique this community. And remember kids... just because I don't agree with you, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Respectfully,

James.
Dale Stoner, modified 10 Years ago at 4/1/13 1:24 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 4/1/13 1:15 PM

RE: Hello, James.

Posts: 17 Join Date: 4/1/13 Recent Posts
I also feel offended by the amount of criticism I have received. I really was being sincere and honest when I tried apologizing (which never worked because Nikolai kept banning me and deleting my apologies). Nevertheless I am being serious when I post critiques, so please address criticism therein, not to me.

Or if you feel, genuinely that you want to criticize me, please go ahead. But be reasonable.

Edit: It's just that I genuinely practice in accord with the suttas, and I really do try to better myself. And I thought that this sincerity would in fact, rub off on everyone, but it really seems that uh, no one gives a shit.

I mean I have miles to go, but don't ban me when I try to improve. Jesus. Anyways I really just had to say that.
Dale Stoner, modified 10 Years ago at 4/1/13 1:33 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 4/1/13 1:33 PM

RE: Hello, James.

Posts: 17 Join Date: 4/1/13 Recent Posts
I mean, I also feel like a bad person a lot too. Sometimes I feel like I have wronged this community and that I should apologize.

Other times I feel angry. I do have a lot of respect for everyone here, it probably doesn't show, but I do. Perhaps I elevated everyone here and created an obsession. I don't know. Feels good to talk about it though.

Actually it's this remorse about having trolled this community, and once again, I hesitate to use that word, that's been bothering me. But I could just get a word in edgewise. I hope you would forgive me for my behavior and not judge me for it.

I really do mean well.

:-D

So thanks for understanding, even if you don't.
Adam , modified 10 Years ago at 4/1/13 1:36 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 4/1/13 1:36 PM

RE: Hello, James.

Posts: 613 Join Date: 3/20/12 Recent Posts
Emphasis on "noting", AKA mental-labeling, which doesn't really seem to produce any sort of liberation.


James,

Let me describe how mental labeling does seem to produce a sort of liberation in my experience, it's pretty simple really. When your mental narrative is reduced from

"he said this and i didn't like it, now I am feeling angry and that is un-buddhist, I better stop thinking about this and practice, I don't really know how to practice what should I do? this person said to practice like this so let me try that, but that other person said that type of practice doesn't work and I should do this instead"

to

"seeing, hearing, feeling, seeing, seeing, seeing, feeling, hearing, seeing, feeling, this is nice, oh but I shouldn't think that, thinking, seeing, hearing, seeing, feeling"

there is way less stress. It usually takes a while for the momentum to build, at first when you start noting it doesn't seem to make anything better, because you aren't changing your experience just labeling it, but if you can keep up a solid rhythm of noting through at the day you usually feel better over time. if I note the 6 senses now I will feel fairly peaceful and clear in about ~15 minutes, if I can keep it up for ~7/10 seconds throughout the entire day I feel pretty good and if I keep doing that every day I feel pretty consistently calm, aware, and happy.

while practicing like this your mental clarity fluctuates and but it fluctuates a lot less and remains a lot higher than when not practicing like this, in my experience. in these terms 6-sense labeling is the most effective practice I have tried.

Attainment-whoring, over-emphasis on attainment and not actual substantial change in the individual.


clearly true in some cases, but not so true in others. there have been some practitioners including 'advanced' and long-standing ones in this community who have ended up appearing quite dishonest and insincere, but there are others who as far as I can ascertain have achieved totally significant, totally real, life-altering effects.

I think the dishonesty and insincerity is going to come into play when so much creativity is allowed, see KFDh forums for an example of less creativity but also less dishonesty.

I also don't apologize for anything.


I also feel offended by the amount of criticism I have received.


Really? what about all those times when you claimed enlightenment and then admitted you were lying, then said you were really having psychological difficulties and on various meds, then said you were enlightened again etc.

If you still don't see those things as worth apologies then how can you expect people to take you seriously? All of your posts so far still have a clearly provocative, self-righteous, self-centered, attention-obsessed flavor.
Dale Stoner, modified 10 Years ago at 4/1/13 1:44 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 4/1/13 1:44 PM

RE: Hello, James.

Posts: 17 Join Date: 4/1/13 Recent Posts
Well, I can't possibly be taken seriously, if no one takes me seriously. Wow that came out weird. What I meant was:

I cannot possibly be honest about who I am, without voicing my opinion, and I cannot participate here and try to improve, without first acknowledging that I feel hurt and offended.

Do you see what I'm saying? I need to air everything first basically.

If I apologized without stating how I really felt, that would just be really bad and unskillful.
Dale Stoner, modified 10 Years ago at 4/1/13 1:54 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 4/1/13 1:52 PM

RE: Hello, James.

Posts: 17 Join Date: 4/1/13 Recent Posts
Also, I do admit I have certain mental illnesses, well actually I've only ever diagnosed with one and that is Major Depressive Disorder, and I was on meds for depression and anxiety.

Not, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, antisocial personality disorder, or anything like that.

Plus I don't actually feel sadness or anxiety in my day to day life, I actually feel quite good quite often, but I also feel a penetrating angst in my chest often too.

So the reason I don't apologize is because that would be a non-sequitur, you have already categorized, judged me and whatever and if I were to apologize, that would basically, verify what you say. But I don't think it's true.

For example:

1) You imply that I'm crazy. I say that I'm not.
2) You state that I have lied and that is true. And I have apologized for it and confessed it, but my posts were deleted and I was banned. That made me angry. (By this I mean, my attempts at apologies and confession were deleted, and I was banned.)

I really did try to apologize and change. But it seems that, no one was willing to receive.

Nevertheless, I do feel that you are right, and because life is short. I offer my confession:

Sir, I was so muddle-headed and unskilled as to have trolled this community, slighted this community, disrupted, lied too and slandered this community. I hope that you will accept my confession so that in the future I may develop restraint and avoid the same behavior.

Thank you.
Dale Stoner, modified 10 Years ago at 4/1/13 2:01 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 4/1/13 2:01 PM

RE: Hello, James.

Posts: 17 Join Date: 4/1/13 Recent Posts
Really? what about all those times when you claimed enlightenment and then admitted you were lying, then said you were really having psychological difficulties and on various meds, then said you were enlightened again etc.

If you still don't see those things as worth apologies then how can you expect people to take you seriously? All of your posts so far still have a clearly provocative, self-righteous, self-centered, attention-obsessed flavor.


Besides, you are appealing to my character to discredit what I'm saying again anyways, which is a fallacy.. I merely ask that you read what I say. And what I said is in the original post of this thread.

And in regards to your comments on noting, I mean, I can't really say it doesn't work, since I don't use it. So perhaps I should withdraw my critique of it.

However, I did practice Vipassana before when I was young boy, and yes, it did lead to intense pain and a feeling of messiness, which this community would probably interpret as being the 3Cs territory. I don't actually know what happened. But there is the possibility that it just doesn't work.

I mean intuitively the method just doesn't seem right, but hey! I could be wrong.
Dale Stoner, modified 10 Years ago at 4/1/13 2:12 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 4/1/13 2:12 PM

RE: Hello, James.

Posts: 17 Join Date: 4/1/13 Recent Posts
Just realized that I didn't actually apologize.

Sorry for... deceiving you guys, sorry for being disruptive, sorry for being I don't know, self-centered, a dickhead, or just being plain retarded.

Hopefully I can restrain myself in the future.

I got to head to bed now.

So peace.
Adam , modified 10 Years ago at 4/1/13 3:38 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 4/1/13 3:32 PM

RE: Hello, James.

Posts: 613 Join Date: 3/20/12 Recent Posts
I cannot possibly be honest about who I am, without voicing my opinion, and I cannot participate here and try to improve, without first acknowledging that I feel hurt and offended.


Voicing your opinion is fine, but come on, can't you do it in a less provocative manner?

Here are some examples of provocativeness as i see it:

I also don't apologize for anything.

And remember kids...

Of course this was with the intent of discrediting EVERYTHING I was about to say, without actually addressing my points. That having been said, before everyone jumps on the "James is insane, therefore everything he says is wrong, bandwagon."

I thought I would pre-empt that, and actually, raise every single critique of this community that I have... So that they can be addressed, in and of themselves.

As opposed to, addressing, blaming, discrediting, reverse-trolling, judging, condemning, banning, categorizing, separating or just plain hating me.


Ok people have not treated you with complete respect and responded to everything you've said on your terms, but I think your terms are somewhat unreasonable a lot of the time. Your criticisms often fairly wide-ranging and hard to discuss. And furthermore, for the most part, what the blaming, discrediting etc. usually seems to focus on is the way in which you argue and not necessarily the points you make (which are actually made by other people and discussed in a more productive way fairly often around here).

For example, I really don't see the 4-path system as being especially important or interesting. I've heard people make comments like "I just attained stream entry and am more depressed than ever" for example, or people who seem to be struggling with significantly more emotional difficulties than I am despite being 3rd path. Also I am somewhat doubtful of aspects of the way noting is employed, I don't really see some things like vibrations and the 3Cs of sensations to be too important to mental peace, for me noting is useful in that it keeps my mind from wandering and can lead to stable states of sensate presence in which I am happy and competent and which I would like to make occur more often.

So the reason I don't apologize is because that would be a non-sequitur, you have already categorized, judged me and whatever and if I were to apologize, that would basically, verify what you say. But I don't think it's true.

For example:

1) You imply that I'm crazy. I say that I'm not.
2) You state that I have lied and that is true. And I have apologized for it and confessed it, but my posts were deleted and I was banned. That made me angry. (By this I mean, my attempts at apologies and confession were deleted, and I was banned.)


No I don't think I really have done those things. I feel like I understand how you could have done each of the things you've done here which have been labeled by various people as 'unskilful' (though often in less kind terms). For this reason I don't think you are crazy, I really don't think crazy is a useful term, there's just a question of how much of a person's experience is dominated by proliferating and narratives as opposed to attention to what is being experienced. When I have been really caught up in a lot of narratives of a certain type I could categorize myself as being 'depressed' and when that happens frequently and the narratives gain alot of solidity (as I have experienced at various times) you might get an 'official' diagnosis.

So what I am saying is that you did lie about your mental well-being and attainment status, which is probably as preventative a condition for serious practice as anything else you could possibly do. You have apologized and I really don't hold it against you any longer.

I hope that you will accept my confession so that in the future I may develop restraint and avoid the same behavior.


Let me point out that you could develop restraint, avoidance of the same behavior, mental clarity, purity of mind, etc. without anyone accepting any apology of yours.

Besides, you are appealing to my character to discredit what I'm saying again anyways, which is a fallacy.. I merely ask that you read what I say. And what I said is in the original post of this thread.


No, I definitely responded to your criticisms, and by no means did I link your character to their validity. I think they are valid in some ways and invald in others regardless of who is presenting them. You seem to be replying to the post you expected rather than what I actually wrote. Notice how those expectations come through in your writing and make it hard to really respond to any points you have or to discuss any practice issues you are experiencing.

However, I did practice Vipassana before when I was young boy, and yes, it did lead to intense pain and a feeling of messiness, which this community would probably interpret as being the 3Cs territory. I don't actually know what happened. But there is the possibility that it just doesn't work.

I mean intuitively the method just doesn't seem right, but hey! I could be wrong.


I have actually never experienced those really painful types of experiences noting, but I have experienced them when my practice was simply of poor quality and not very continuous. I have had really extreme emotional lows while practicing which have put me into suicidal ideation territory, but I have had nothing close to that in the last few months when I have turned up the heat and got into a really strong noting rhythm. It's likely that the lessons I learned from all those difficulties are playing a huge role in my current success, reminds me of an Ajahn Chah quote which goes something along the lines of "you have to break down and cry at least three times in your practice before you can really begin practicing."

When I got into that difficult territory my 'practice' was basically sitting around and worrying about enlightenment, doubting that I knew how to get enlightened, whining that enlightenment was too hard... then at various times thinking I was enlightened, telling people I was enlightened, getting mentally hysterical thinking about how close I was to getting enlightened etc.

These days I would definitely describe my mind as far more clear and pure and relaxed than it was back then, and mostly my practice is what I described above with 6-sense noting and, when my mind seems to be reaching a sort of 'peak' of equanimity, clarity etc. I drop the noting and just stay silently with the sensate experience (for as long as I can keep that up at a high level).

Anyway, I hope some of this can be of use to you. Personally I hope that you start a practice journal, keeping it simple and non-speculative, and that the people in this community can stop bringing up the past such that you can get over it. How would you describe your practice these days?

Alternatively you could just practice on your own and only post occasionally with clear practical questions, this is what I try to do, though usually by the time I am finished writing out my question I figure out that it was just a useless self-sabotaging doubt interrupting good practice.
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fivebells , modified 10 Years ago at 4/1/13 4:38 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 4/1/13 4:38 PM

RE: Hello, James.

Posts: 563 Join Date: 2/25/11 Recent Posts
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Nikolai , modified 10 Years ago at 4/1/13 5:21 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 4/1/13 5:10 PM

RE: Hello, James.

Posts: 1677 Join Date: 1/23/10 Recent Posts
James Yen (under the current handle used in this thread) has been banned once again, so wont be able to respond with the banned handle.The mods agreed to ban you a while ago, James, when you continuously trolled with posts that were simply attention seeking with new handles each time. You used up your chances (which were given freely for quite a while) until it was decided to ban any of your handles regardless of post content. Until I'm told not to by the higher ups, any handle you use, will be banned either by me or the other mods. Remember when I mentioned about the risk of coming off like the boy who cried wolf awhile back? The moral of the story fits this situation. Your apologies and 'soap box' posts may be sincere from your side, but you cried wolf too many times before to trust you will continue to be sincere in future. Write to Daniel if you have any grievances about the mods' decision. He has the power to allow you to keep posting.

Nick (mod)