Hi,

Usually I can see nowadays proto-thoughts***, words and phrases coming in as not-self. Though they are labelled like that, they are heard/perceived physically in my head or the (very) close surroundings. But, today I had a weird perception, as words/phrases were coming from a distant (non-specific) place.

I'm curious: is this an expected insight regarding centerlessness? Or just a weird experience?



*** ill-formed words & phrases, the mind trying to give a meaning to external stimulus creating thoughts by connecting dots, or mimicking sounds transforming into words.

Could you elaborate? I'm not sure I'm getting a read on what you're describing.

Just a weird experience. Probably not worth following up on.

Let them come in as not-self and go out as not-self

Make sure you look at everything (including meditation/intentions/paying attention/etc) as just more experiences. Experiences being phenomenon that is ephemeral. Look at meditation as just another experience. When you get a feeling of an out of body experience while still being in the body and feeling totally normal then you're getting into anatta. It's almost like a hologram or a show.

EDIT: When you see things at a distance know that the mind is extrapolating distance. The light is hitting your eye (no distance at all).

@Laurel: I'm not sure I can elaborate more. What I wanted to ask if there's a kind of progression in seeing thoughts as not-self, from perceiving them first in a specific location (the usual, in the head), and later on in the meditation path without a specific location. The experience I'm describing is the second one, where the words come from an non-specific place or perhaps from a distant place.

Because of the experience, I couldn't resist the temptation of connecting it to how Daniel describes the shift in mantras across the fist four vipassana jhanas (MCTB pages 253-254). I thought that hearing from a distant place may be related to 3rd and 4th jhanas. Or that non-specific place be something related to the centerlessness that 4th Pathers describe.

@fivebells & @MB: Yes, probably not worth following up on. I was just curious and haven't read much in DhO about details on how thoughts are perceived went noted as not-self (eg. location, pitch, ecos, related physical sensations, etc).

Good tips Richard, thanks! I can relate to the OBE experience while still being in the body.