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2nd Jhana or just vibrations?
Answer
4/15/13 11:40 AM
In November of last year I hit what I believe is 1st path. Since then I have been experiencing what I swear is 2nd Jhana during my regular day. Sitting at my desk working on the computer, doing dishes etc. All I have to do is think something Dhamma related and bam, there it is. Sometimes I am not even thinking of Dhamma and it hits. It feels very blissful like 2nd Jhana. It also has that annoying quality like 2nd Jhana does after a while.

Is it possible to go into Jhana without intending to during your normal daily experiences? At times it feels like I'm actually rising through the first 4 Jhanas. It's distracting as hell even though it feels really great.

Has anyone else experienced this?

RE: 2nd Jhana or just vibrations?
Answer
4/15/13 11:52 AM as a reply to Darrin Rice.
In general answer to your question I would say yes.

More specifically, from my own experience, I would say that jhana in daily life is far less clear than on the cushion. It's kind of like a "deliciousness" one can contact, and sometimes maintain contact with during activity. As with the continuum of jhanic flavours one experiences in meditation, there is a fairly broad range of experience we might call "jhana" during activity.

RE: 2nd Jhana or just vibrations?
Answer
4/15/13 12:05 PM as a reply to Darrin Rice.
Its funny you post this because i was going to post the exact same question. I'm not totally sure if I've got first path or not(maybe a thread one of these days), but I've been experiencing the same thing you describe. I'll be working in my cubicle and all of a sudden I need to close my eyes and meditate, and i'm immediately in a state that it normally takes me an hour of meditation to get to. Very focused, space between eyes feels almost solid, very pleasant though. A couple weeks ago during one of these episodes i decided to explore it further and after about 15 minutes i had a "blinking" of reality followed by a bliss wave that i thought may have been a fruition. But i'm not sure and i can't seem to recreate on a regular basis. But i do get that "enough already" feeling if it keeps up for too long. In fact, I'm right in the midst of one now as i type ;) Thanks for posting, hopefully someone with more knowledge than I can shed some light.

RE: 2nd Jhana or just vibrations?
Answer
4/15/13 1:04 PM as a reply to Bagpuss The Gnome.
[quote=Nick W (aka Bagpuss)]In general answer to your question I would say yes.

More specifically, from my own experience, I would say that jhana in daily life is far less clear than on the cushion. It's kind of like a "deliciousness" one can contact, and sometimes maintain contact with during activity. As with the continuum of jhanic flavours one experiences in meditation, there is a fairly broad range of experience we might call "jhana" during activity.

Thanks Nick,
When you say "yes", are you saying yes to Jhana and just vibrations or just to Jhana? I guess a good question is: are the vibrations that I am "feeling" simply the bliss of Jhana or are they also the vibrations of insight. Or, are they one and the same. Is the bliss of Jhana, i.e. the vibrations that are experienced and bring that blissful feeling simply the joy of experiencing things as they truly are? It seems to me that when we experience the flickering that is naturally what happens in reality, that brings us a sense of joy. To say it another way, when I experience reality as it truly is, I find joy and peace.

Thoughts?

RE: 2nd Jhana or just vibrations?
Answer
4/15/13 3:15 PM as a reply to Darrin Rice.
I am going to throw in a contrary opinion and say that the "deliciousness" one can feel through the day with different "jhanic flavors" are not in fact true jhana in the most orthodox sense. I would go on to say that these sensations are in fact different combinations of hot and cold sensations felt in the body that are then interpreted as "pleasant" or what-have-you. The sensations are correlated with spasms/contractions in the muscles, and thus are not the type of "senses withdrawn", relaxed yet alert jhana that is praised so highly in the sutras.

This is all speculation, as I have not reached the state of having a relaxed yet alert mind and body.

RE: 2nd Jhana or just vibrations?
Answer
4/15/13 10:03 PM as a reply to Darrin Rice.
one of the standard marks of stream entry is the nearly instant ability (generally, with some qualified, specific semi-exceptions) to be at the A&P just by the merest inclination to contemplate or to attain it

it, in and of itself, is not perfectly diagnostic, but stream entry without it would be suspicious

and, as the A&P is the second vipassana jhana, and, as the second vipassana jhana is in the wide range of what can arise in the large area of general territory that is the second jhana in general (which spans very light pleasant vibratory stuff to crazy breathing patterns to energy explosions to bright orgasmic light flooding the body to very still, refined, stable rapturous states and much more), then yes, you can say that stream enterers can instantly access something second-jhanic

this is all in mctb somewhere, i believe

RE: 2nd Jhana or just vibrations?
Answer
4/15/13 3:22 PM as a reply to Sleeping Buddha Syndrome.
A D R:
I am going to throw in a contrary opinion and say that the "deliciousness" one can feel through the day with different "jhanic flavors" are not in fact true jhana in the most orthodox sense. I would go on to say that these sensations are in fact different combinations of hot and cold sensations felt in the body that are then interpreted as "pleasant" or what-have-you. The sensations are correlated with spasms/contractions in the muscles, and thus are not the type of "senses withdrawn", relaxed yet alert jhana that is praised so highly in the sutras.

This is all speculation, as I have not reached the state of having a relaxed yet alert mind and body.


Also I would add that what I state above is all in reference to the practice of becoming aware of and calming the body as mentioned in the sutras. I think that for the body and mind to be unified, the mediator must become aware of the full range of sensations that different muscular contractions can provide, whether these be interpreted as bliss, fear, despair, happiness, equinimity, etc and see all of them for what they are, etc. This seems to be a tricky process as sensations can easily be interpreted to "mean something" and thus the mediator is often inclined to pursue such fabricated ideas even though they may be intrinsically unpleasant.

For the above process, I feel that seeing the lack of duality in subject/object in real time is a good way of not getting pulled into uncomfortable behavior or ideas.

RE: 2nd Jhana or just vibrations?
Answer
4/15/13 9:16 PM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
I also can feel 2nd jhana vibrations and tingling at anytime - easy to call up - its like its just under the surface and available at any time at will. Whilst I have had blackout blips (about 6 weeks ago) I have not had them since. I have always had access to at least the first 4 jhanas and possible 5th since almost from when I started to practice and access them routinely to improve concentration. So haven't claimed Stream Entry (waiting and seeing) but also was intrigued by 2nd jhana sensations on call through the day at work or anywhere.

RE: 2nd Jhana or just vibrations?
Answer
4/16/13 10:47 AM as a reply to Darrin Rice.
Darrin Rice:
[quote=Nick W (aka Bagpuss)]In general answer to your question I would say yes.

More specifically, from my own experience, I would say that jhana in daily life is far less clear than on the cushion. It's kind of like a "deliciousness" one can contact, and sometimes maintain contact with during activity. As with the continuum of jhanic flavours one experiences in meditation, there is a fairly broad range of experience we might call "jhana" during activity.


Thanks Nick,
When you say "yes", are you saying yes to Jhana and just vibrations or just to Jhana? I guess a good question is: are the vibrations that I am "feeling" simply the bliss of Jhana or are they also the vibrations of insight. Or, are they one and the same. Is the bliss of Jhana, i.e. the vibrations that are experienced and bring that blissful feeling simply the joy of experiencing things as they truly are? It seems to me that when we experience the flickering that is naturally what happens in reality, that brings us a sense of joy. To say it another way, when I experience reality as it truly is, I find joy and peace.

Thoughts?

Vibrations are not jhana in themselves, though for me the two usually go together. The pleasure of jhana can be an aspect of the vibrations or it can seem to be independent of them. As far as insight goes, on the surface it would seem that vibrations are just vibrations *unless* you pay attention to their nature of constant change. Having said that, they do seem to reflect the "resolution" at which you are experiencing reality.

Hope i haven't confused the issue further emoticon

*edited for clarity

RE: 2nd Jhana or just vibrations?
Answer
4/19/13 9:19 AM as a reply to Bagpuss The Gnome.
Hi Nick,
Far from confusing the Issue, this brings even more clarity. I like the term; "resolution at which you are experiencing reality". So would you say the faster the vibrations you can clearly perceive the higher the resolution? With the emphasis on "clearly perceive".

RE: 2nd Jhana or just vibrations?
Answer
4/19/13 2:26 PM as a reply to Darrin Rice.
According to the MCTB view, the faster you can perceive anything the higher the resolution I think Darrin. But certainly from my own experience the A&P vibrations are faster than pre-A&P and I can clearly perceive more in that stage. Likewise with Equanimity. In the DN vibrations are pretty fast for me right now but in general they do tend to be a bit slower. They are less clearly perceived because there is unpleasant stuff going on and the mind wanders.. so yes, i think in general the faster the vibrations the higher the resolution (if clearly perceived).