RE: object for kasinas

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Daniel M. Ingram, modified 11 Years ago.

RE: object for kasinas

Posts: 3199 Join Date: 4/20/09 Recent Posts
Thanks for your descriptions.

As to what that gap is, I am not sure it is NS: would actually need a bunch more to make that call.

Do you have any idea how long it lasts?

Can you explain the second or so of the entrance and exit?

The setup is wrong for that, and, unless you have found another way in, makes me think of any of a number of things, from Fruition with duration, to 8th jhana, to some others that are less likely.

As to my Sangha, don't really have much of one here where I am, though two locals did recently contact me, I wouldn't use anything so grand as the word Sangha to describe that.

I don't think that, other than the view and the company, that there is anything particularly special about Hurricane Ranch in comparison to those places.

As to special places, it is clear that some places to have a feeling to them, and the histories add to this, and all that can incline us to various modes that are different from how we might feel in a parking lot or dirty bus station, obviously.

Daniel
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Daniel M. Ingram, modified 11 Years ago.

RE: object for kasinas

Posts: 3199 Join Date: 4/20/09 Recent Posts
Hey, the post I replied to seems to have mysteriously vanished, not sure what happened, and this posted here. Odd. Liferay: amazing and buggy all at once.

Daniel
J Cum, modified 11 Years ago.

RE: object for kasinas

Posts: 26 Join Date: 4/5/10 Recent Posts
I wanted to again apologize for deleting my posts. This was in an attempt to edit, and inadvertantly removing. Nitwit thing to do. Am bordering on website incompetence.

Having said that, I would appreciate further feedback. My original post on kasinas concerned whether concentration on an external image of say a yellow disc could be substituted for a candle flame, and I understand the answer is that any object of any color could be used, and then develop the capacity to see a counter image with eyes closed. Actually, I have done a good deal of trataka practice, as well as yoni mudra practice, and now a days, there is a dot or circle of light that is visible with eyes closed anytime, when meditating. i unify that Ajna visual image perception with the awareness of the breath at the nostrils, and this causes a "flip". So I suppose any naturally occurring image such as these ones that do arise, are prefectly acceptable for concentration practices. Nevertheless, the book Practicing the Jhanas describes a number of different colored images that would take the meditator through a series of concentration exercises at each of the various jhanic levels. Sounds like this could be worth a month long experiment that would be possibly worthwhile, so might try whats recommended in that book. At worst it would be a hollow exercise I suppose.

I am new to Jhana terminology and investigation, and have experienced more a continuum of meditative states without labels up until now. My meditation teacher de-emphasized the meditative absorptions, mentioning they existed in passing only.

So Daniel's book is a revelation in that and many respects. I am indeed grateful and amazed.

With yogic practices, my capacities in Second Jhana are robust so to speak with voluntary control over the Energetic System, of Pranic Vibrations, and so on. The transitions from there into an expansive awareness, where the energy or awareness expands beyond the physical body and seems to fill my meditation room. Joy transforms into Equinimity. Awareness of the body and breathing disappear. Thoughts become less frequent and then stop.

At a week long retreat last September, one night on day five, the mind's capacity to name things came to a screetching halt lasting two hours. I just laid down outdoors, and was looking at trees, but they had no name. The sky and the stars. No names or thoughts appeared. This seemed liberating, to just observe objects without naming anything so that no personal overlay of prejudice and of names and story line to all these trees and everything visible. There were no thoughts, just looking with the eyes. There was incredible elation in this! I was laughing. Is this an Eighth Jhana phenomenon, where
Sana, the mind's habit of attributing names to things ceases?

At the present time, meditation progressed into cessation of thought, And I appreciate your comments Daniel that this cessation of thought, body awareness, breath awareness , and of time, represents Eight Jhana. This lasts anywhere from 30 to 60 minutes generally. As per your question about entry and exit, I am aware of both but nothing during. Seems like several minutes had elapsed, when the clock indicates much longer elapsed. There is joy and exhilaration, and vibration of the whole body on exiting, and often insights into some aspect of my life or conundrums that had not been apparent. Problem solving regarding some questions I had at work the previous day, or about why I had been cranky or something else.

I awaken in the middle of the night with starry sky visual phenomenon and insights. Lot of whole body vibration at those times. This can continue for an hour. It doesn't make the body tired from sleep loss.

I went to India last month and found several locations that were incredibly easy places to enter immediately into deep meditation effortlessly. I assumed this was a common perception of you other meditators, but apparently was imaginary according to your comments. I can live with that. Several years ago I was at Santa Fe, and walked into an old building on the central square. I immediately began crying unconsolably. I told my motel manager about what had happened and he said there had been a massacre of thirty people in that location during a confrontation between the native americans and the caucasions around 1880.
Are not there psychic perceptions as to prana and psychic content,(vibrations) possible at certain locations? Part of the mystery of what we are, and what our potential is? Maybe some people are more psychic than others through some agency?

Lastly, I had asked Daniel if there is validity in the power of "darshan" with a sangha of like minded meditators. You said not.
I think maybe so. Sangha is one of the Three Jewels, right? What do you suppose that means if not this resonance with other meditators who collectively amount to something more than the sum of the parts? Interconnectivity?

Any other comments would be appreciated. I am especially appreciative for hearing where I am over imagining things.
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Eran G, modified 11 Years ago.

RE: object for kasinas

Posts: 182 Join Date: 1/5/10 Recent Posts
J Cum:

Nevertheless, the book Practicing the Jhanas describes a number of different colored images that would take the meditator through a series of concentration exercises at each of the various jhanic levels. Sounds like this could be worth a month long experiment that would be possibly worthwhile, so might try whats recommended in that book. At worst it would be a hollow exercise I suppose.


Practicing the Jhanas is written in the tradition of Pa Auk Sayadaw who teaches in a way very close to that described in the Visuddhimagga. In the VM (which is considered an excellent manual on meditation by the way) the meditator is taken through mastering the jhana using many different objects (breath and colored disk kasinas being a subset of those objects). From descriptions I've read, Pa Auk teaches in a very strict manner, for example when focusing on the breath there are only two very specific areas the meditator is directed to focus on, he also seems to require that meditators experience a visual nimitta in order to enter jhana. This works for some people but may not work for others.

As to it being a worthwhile exercise, what is your goal? If you are interested in using jhanas as a way to gain insight, this could be a worthwhile path. Pa Auk teaches using the jhana states that one develops in order to gain insight (I think this is described in the chapter Four elements meditation in the book). If you're interested in exploring jhana states for themselves, this may or may not work for you since this style of practice is said to lead to very hard jhanas where directed exploration is difficult.

Hope this helps,
Eran.
J Cum, modified 11 Years ago.

RE: object for kasinas

Posts: 26 Join Date: 4/5/10 Recent Posts
Thanks Eran,
More insight, more insight!
J
J Cum, modified 11 Years ago.

RE: object for kasinas

Posts: 26 Join Date: 4/5/10 Recent Posts
Hi there Daniel,
Sorry, I must have deleted my own posts. So allow me to reduplicate some of that post.

The situation was this:
I started meditation at Vipassana retreats 11 years ago, and as a result of sincere and effective insight practice,...kundalini energy started up at that time. Have continued Vipassana retreats, but also exploring all the esoteric methods to develop energy,

I have been using the method described in the book Practicing the Jhanas and find that effective, Concentration on the breathing at the nose is quickly established and held steady, and soon after, as Third Eye consciousness is unified with awareness at the nostrils, I believe that Second Jhana occurs, because things get real easy and effortless. There is an expansive sensation, and the chronology seems pretty much as described in Practicing the Jhanas, as far as the sequence as far as vibrations ceasing and equinimity arising. Meditations seem to generally deepen into a condition where body awareness, breath awareness,and thought, all cease and only after wards, on the way out, is it apparent what all ceased and for how long. Duration 45 to 60 minutes. I never thought to analyze what seems more continuum than stages.

Here's another experience. On a one week long retreat with my teacher last fall, I arrived at a thought free state while fully awake laying in the back of my station wagon, and for two hours, there were no words for anything. Like for example, I would look at a tree and not think "a tree". There were no names connotations, history, or prejudices as to what everything was that was being percieved.

I appreciate your feedback. What do you mean by your question: "Can you explain the second or so of the entrance and exit?"?

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