Diagnose Me!

Jeff N., modified 8 Years ago.

Diagnose Me!

Posts: 4 Join Date: 5/6/13 Recent Posts
Hey Guys,

So I've tried to figure out where I am along in the stages of insight, but I was thinking it might be better to get some outside informed opinions. I'll take you through a timeline of experience, but will try to be concise.

During 10 Retreat

1. I feel my breath as if the inside of my stomach has developed nerve endings. The breath is felt with incredible detail. It feels almost invasive.

2. Next sit I try to return to that state with the breath. I fail. I accept that whatever conditions existed to make me feel that way are gone.

3. Something clicks. The body shakes. Odd breathing patterns. Head starts vibrating.

4. I'm getting interesting in all my sensations. I start investigating pain. I realize that pain isn't static. It's always moving and changing. I'm kind of enjoying pain. I'm happy when it arises.

5. More shaking and vibrating triggered, this time by examining pain.

6. Concentration gets strong. Lots of vibrations in the head. Feels like things are moving around in my brain.

7. Feels like my brain is suffocating. The more I observe, that more intense. I'm convinced 'm going to die.

8. My teacher says I am safe. She says my experiences are good. I continue. Still feels like I'm going to die. I forge on. I get a little further. Further. BLAM.

9. A surge of energy explodes from my stomach. It moves like a wave through my body. Mega intense.

10. More vibration in the head, but calmer. Gentle buzzing. Seeing red and black triangles. I can feel my "third eye." Pressure on the top of my head.

11. Feel my blood vibrating, at all times. Even off cushion.

12. My legs stop working during walking meditation. They become stiff. I'm carried to bed.

13. Meditation becoming effortless. Kind of boring actually. I realize that everything is meditation. I can observe any object at any time. It's all making sense now.

14. In walking meditation, my legs feel weightless. No effort to move them. They start walking on their own. I'm not in controlling. They are doing weird motions. I almost run into someone.

15. Meditation is kind of boring. It's like good and steady, but not crazy. Steady vibrations. I decide to go for a walk.

16. Legs are weightless. Feels like they are moving on an invisible track. They seem to want to go in this weird motion. I recognize it. It's a Tai Chi walk. I'm doing Tai Chi. Except I don't know Tai Chi. Feels like I'm a part of everything. One.

17. I'm able to do an advanced set of Tai Chi steps, with no training. The teacher say this is good/normal. I'm a little afraid.

18. Hard to sleep. My blood is vibrating. I end up sleeping, but only my body sleeps. I'm awake and asleep at the same time.

19. I'm doing Kung Fu. I don't know Kung Fu, but I'm doing it. Multiple styles. No separation between on cushion and off cushion meditation. Strange sense of peace. Ease. Control of my impulses on a deep level. Fear not a big issue anymore. Slightly less "excitable." I'm experiencing the "life" and "death" of reality in actual time. Body feels weightless.

20. Overwhelmed. I lower my meditation, a lot.

Now:

1. If I sit, I quickly lock on to my object, there's a surge of energy to my throat, stomach or heart. It rushes to my head. Intense. Almost painful. It dissipates. I feel warm. It starts again.

2. Can cycle through yoga poses I have no knowledge of, if "let" myself. Also a strange kung fu kata I can do if I "let myself."

3. Extraordinary concentration gone. Back to being unable control all impulses. Fear back. Hello again. Feel basically the way I did before. But still, better "natural" concentration than before.

If you got through all blabber this, you are a saint. Thank you. If you might lend me your expertise, I would appreciate it.
What would you do in my position?
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fivebells ., modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Diagnose Me!

Posts: 563 Join Date: 2/25/11 Recent Posts
Your situation will be easier to assess if you post a video of you doing Tai Chi. I would like to see you do the Yang 108 and the Yang Sword Form.

Also, go pick a fight at a biker bar, and let us know how your kung fu stands up to real, violent hostility. Again, video would be very useful. Don't hurt anyone.
Jeff N., modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Diagnose Me!

Posts: 4 Join Date: 5/6/13 Recent Posts
@Fivebells . and Akash K

Just to be clear, the only time I was ever cycling through different styles with ease was about a week after the event. At that point, I stopped meditating more than 5 min at a time.

Now, it's only one specific "form" or "kata," and cycling through various yoga poses. I don't know the name of the form. My knowledge of Kung Fu/Tai Chi isn't very deep.

I'm not sure how making a video would help with anything, so I'm not gonna do one. I do understand the "see it to believe it impulse," but I'm not here to prove anything.

If you really want to know styles I did, what I can make out is praying mantis, drunken boxing and the Tai Chi 24 form. There was another Kung Fu style that involved like holding my palm out and turning it to the left.

Just to be clear, I'm haven't spoken out loud about this with many people, and it was a really scary experience for me. While I do get that it's also funny, and I have laughed about it myself, it was also really terrifying. Feeling your body move intelligently, without your will, is a crazy big mind fuck.

@Daniel

Thanks Daniel. A & P is was what I was thinking, too. There was another big "event" where it felt like I was stabbed in the stomach. To be honest, I was very confused about what happened before I found your book, via The Cheetah House. So thanks for that, too!

What would you suggest, going forward? Part of me is wary of heavy meditation. Part of me wants to go further.
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fivebells ., modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Diagnose Me!

Posts: 563 Join Date: 2/25/11 Recent Posts
If you're serious, I apologize for my flippant response. Good luck finding your way!
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Akash K, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Diagnose Me!

Posts: 164 Join Date: 4/21/13 Recent Posts
With my very limited experience, I can say this:

When we meditate, we are engaging in a process of eliminating mental impressions (sankharas) that we are always creating. These impressions have accumulated over countless lives. There are many ways in which these impressions come to surface during eradication.

The impressions are food for our mind, and when we meditate we stop feeding it, thus it uses what it already has in storage.

So, as strange as it sounds, the Kung Fu /Yoga/ Tai Chi / Stomach event is probably related to some strong past impressions that were embedded in your mind and came to surface. Such physical arts tend to become part of your natural physical instinct at higher levels of training, and maybe your mind was just remembering/replaying it as it released it. This is the best explanation I can give if you need one to reassert yourself, and it's definitely good that it happened.

If you've cross A&P you will reach dissolution soon enough. You should read about Dark Night in MTBC & decide for yourself when you wish to take the journey further. I feel a time comes in life when some people genuinely look forward to be free from suffering regardless of what it takes, whether or not its your time only you can tell. Most people go through their lives without taking deep interest in realizing it's truth (through insight/meditation) and I feel those who do are truly the lucky ones.

If you choose to proceed, you'll have to go all in and there is no walking back. So consider the impact it may have on your life/family/career when the tides get rough and do whatever your heart tells you.
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Pablo . P, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Diagnose Me!

Posts: 378 Join Date: 3/21/12 Recent Posts
I think I read a very similar story here in DhO of a guy in a Goenka retreat taking no rest in meditation in a stiff position for 24-48 hours and the bursting into a kata/kung fu show in the middle of the lunch in the retreat. Also, a martial-art friend of mine had a shaktipat transmission and ended up playing the superhero in the street jumping to the railroad to find lost things etc.

It's what Akash K explained. I do have some fajing experiences while laying in bed half asleep revising mentally the forms. Probably it's not an angry ghost taken possession of you, if that's what you fear!


Regarding kundalini symptoms, there's good info with help for sufferers at http://www.aypsite.org/.

Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini_syndrome

Check http://anmolmehta.com/blog/2011/03/30/kundalini-syndrome-symptoms-treatment/
Jeff N., modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Diagnose Me!

Posts: 4 Join Date: 5/6/13 Recent Posts
@Pablo

Thanks for the sites. When it first happened, I mostly found Kundalini-sh explanations. I find the path of insight framework more comforting somehow.

Funny that you mentioned ghosts. Honestly, that was my first thought, when it happened, lol. I was thinking like, "These monks are trying to give my body to an old Chinese ghost."

I find it to be a really strange occurrence. It's one thing when one is shaking from vibrations, but it's quite another when their body is moving with clear intelligence.

I guess in some ways, I have an academic curiosity about it. How? What's the mechanism?

I was told by a Ayurvedic doc that it was a past life trauma, and that I was a Kung Fu dude in the past. This, I guess, amounts to sankharas.

But the monks seem to see it as the Wind. And they perceive as normal and good. So like if your legs move without way and with ease, that's perceiving the Wind.

Have you guys ever experienced the wind?

Here's my question with the wind. If it's perceiving "the Wind" and these movements are just sort of natural, fine. But why, then, is Kung Fu/Tai Chi, not found coming from multiple places in the world. If it's somehow universal, why wouldn't it show up different places? And vice versa for Yoga.
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Pablo . P, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Diagnose Me!

Posts: 378 Join Date: 3/21/12 Recent Posts
Jeff N.:
I find it to be a really strange occurrence. It's one thing when one is shaking from vibrations, but it's quite another when their body is moving with clear intelligence.

I guess in some ways, I have an academic curiosity about it. How? What's the mechanism?


google anatomy trains / Myofascial meridians / Tensegrity + internal martial arts

Check this: http://maguibagua.ca/theory/coaches_essays/myofascial_meridians.pdf

Jeff N.:
I was told by a Ayurvedic doc that it was a past life trauma, and that I was a Kung Fu dude in the past. This, I guess, amounts to sankharas.


Probably you've just let your unconscious get the command, with all its martial arts fantasies.

Jeff N.:

But the monks seem to see it as the Wind. And they perceive as normal and good. So like if your legs move without way and with ease, that's perceiving the Wind.

Have you guys ever experienced the wind?

Here's my question with the wind. If it's perceiving "the Wind" and these movements are just sort of natural, fine. But why, then, is Kung Fu/Tai Chi, not found coming from multiple places in the world. If it's somehow universal, why wouldn't it show up different places? And vice versa for Yoga.


If you're interested in the wind and the like, you'll find interesting information in tummo practices related to "hard" martial arts. It's a valuable tradition, but not my cup of tea.

I believe that energy practices are widespread around the world. It just happens to be best developed in Asia because of their mix of medicine, meditation and performing arts traditions. In the West, top athletes and dance performers have a deep deep use of anatomy trains but lack of the meditation and introspective work of the East.
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tom moylan, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Diagnose Me!

Posts: 896 Join Date: 3/7/11 Recent Posts
Jeff N.:
Here's my question with the wind. If it's perceiving "the Wind" and these movements are just sort of natural, fine. But why, then, is Kung Fu/Tai Chi, not found coming from multiple places in the world. If it's somehow universal, why wouldn't it show up different places? And vice versa for Yoga.


Howdy Jeff,
really interesting stuff whatever it all is. to me it sounds like "krias" but the specific nature of them (tai chi, kung fu et al.) is fascinating. its pretty tough to find a simple logical answer without reverting to some "life continuity" model.

a question for you: have you had any of your spontaneous "arts" seen by experts in those fields and "verified"?

as to your question about "wind": my understanding is that this "wind" is "chi" or vital energy. we have the four basic elements (earth, fire, air and water) the the "wind" is the percieved energetic flow or change in those elements and their interactions with each other. so wind is the dynamic aspect of the "static" perception of the elements. foe example: one of the descriptors of the "air" element is pressure. we can inhale, hold our breath, and the sensations associated with that held breath is pressure. noting the "changing nature" of that pressure is percieving "wind". that's my take anyway.

keep it coming! ( grasshopper :-) )

tom
Jeff N., modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Diagnose Me!

Posts: 4 Join Date: 5/6/13 Recent Posts
Hey Tom,

Yeah, it's definitely interesting stuff.

As far as experts go, I guess I have seen some. Of course, defining someone as an expert is partly opinion, I suppose.

You could consider the abbot of the monastery I was at an expert. He readily recognized what was happening and acknowledged it. I remember when it started happening, he went to the dorm and I was like "I know tai chi." His response was just a calm, "I know."

He made it seem as normal as the sun rising. His explanations were a bit cryptic and a little Miyagi-ish. He said "how do you know you don't know tai chi?" He also said there's a saying in Kung Fu that the most important thing to do is to meditate and that most masters never understood it's meaning."

Basically he said it was a good sign and nothing more, which I suppose it probably is. No big deal.

I asked my teacher recently about the whole thing and she was just like, "if you practice more, you'll understand." Which, I guess, is probably also true.

The monks and my teachers had a similar definition to wind as what you're saying.

I also saw a pretty well known Ayurvedic doctor.

He was pretty much like your Kundalini is way too high. He told me to cut way down on the meditation. And he basically said that, in a past life, I was some adept Kung Fu guy, but that I was also an arrogant dick and I got jumped and murdered.

Who knows.

Jeff aka Grasshopper, Lol
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Akash K, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Diagnose Me!

Posts: 164 Join Date: 4/21/13 Recent Posts
Hey.

I cannot agree more with Fivebells.

In your situation I'd record myself doing some advanced Tai Chi and Kung Fu.
Not only will this help dhamma diagnostics but it will also serve you as memorable memories once you advance & renounce violence altogether.

Its alright if you dont stress on a particular style and just go with whatever feels most effortless.

However, with all due respect to Five, I will recommend picking a fight with some local punks first and then working your way up to the biker bar, and also trying to maintain the realization of anicca, anatta in yourself and the dukkha you bestow upon others.
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Daniel M. Ingram, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Diagnose Me!

Posts: 3199 Join Date: 4/20/09 Recent Posts
Hey, Kung Fu aside...

The energetics, strong concentration, zap through your body, shaking, all classic stages somewhere around the A&P (Arising and Passing Away), with the major blast-through likely being what is called the A&P Event.

As to unusual abilities around that time or the sense that one can do and know amazing things: common, relatively normal for that stage.

Stopped moving and legs stiff: strange musculoskeletal stuff is common in that territory, as is shaking, strange movements, etc.

It will be interesting to see what you get into next and how it goes in daily life afterwards, Grasshopper.

Daniel