Pure Land One, or What the Heck? Have at it!

thumbnail
Mike Knapp, modified 8 Years ago.

Pure Land One, or What the Heck? Have at it!

Posts: 63 Join Date: 10/26/11 Recent Posts
Hey Yogis,

I'm post-Second Path, working around nana 11. The past two days' practice has revealed new territory for me. It appears to track with what I've read and heard of Pure Land One. Below is my practice journal entry for today, and below that a link to my practice journal in its entirety to give you some context. Could some of you sound-off as to what the heck may be going on, and what I "should" be doing? Cheers!

Today: 45 minutes in a quiet room with my eyes closed, sitting Burmese-style with my hands on my knees.

Experience: I was excited and a little nervous going into this session - new territory. I closed my eyes and immediately perceived my visual field "vibrating" at about six to eight times per second. Concentration was high. "Vibrations" were so fine they were difficult to see well. I resolved to pay very close attention. Awareness shifted to my sense of touch and the "vibrations" sped-up to maybe twelve times per second or so. I slipped into a little story and snapped back. Concentration was higher. "Formations" were evident evident, but it was more the vibratory nature of reality that was the object, not "formations" themselves. Background mental process were objects. There was a persistent desire to "see if I can make that weird-thing that happened yesterday happen again." This desire was data in the sense-field. Equanimity was high. The distinction between arising and passing was clearly evident. Awareness was sucked into nothingness as if into a vacuum, momentarily it reemerged. The "Door", appeared to be Impermanence, and there was was a physical wave of pleasure. I was back to square one. This cycle repeated several times, with each cycle going going faster and faster, always with the "Door" of Impermanence. "Vibrations" were going FAST. The "Immaterial Jhanas" cropped up now and then but I stayed focused on vibratory nature of reality. After a few of these cycles, the thing that happened yesterday happened again:

My head began to tingle around the middle of my forehead. The tingling sensation slowly migrated to the crown of my head. There was a sensation like something cool and bubbly was gushing out of the top of my head and down the sides of my head and face. Space was subtly luminous and had a three dimensional quality (similar to Boundless Space, but different). There was a mellow and pervasive physical pleasure in the body. I felt joy. Reality was was still vibrating - even this state arose and passed, was not me, and was not satisfying - but it was pretty nice, don't get me wrong. Continued attention on the vibratory nature of this state was probably the reason I dropped out of it and into a place of equanimity and slower, more jarring vibrations. I continued to pay attention to the vibrations, they got finer, there was a tingling sensation around the middle of my forehead . . . and after a bit I was back in the luminous, physically rapturous, joyous space again. Continued attention to the vibratory nature of this state had me drop out again, and the session ended. It felt like I'd been meditating for five or ten minutes . . . not the forty-five I actually had been.

Observations: Lets see what the boys and girls on the "DhO" have to say.



My whole practice journal.
thumbnail
katy steger, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Pure Land One, or What the Heck? Have at it!

Posts: 1741 Join Date: 10/1/11 Recent Posts
Hi Mike,

I like "Lets see what the boys and girls on the "DhO" have to say. "



Continued attention to the vibratory nature of this state had me drop out again, and the session ended. It felt like I'd been meditating for five or ten minutes . . . not the forty-five I actually had been. (...)
Could some of you sound-off as to what the heck may be going on, and what I "should" be doing? Cheers!
So I don't want to suggest anything about time for time's sake. But there are some basic good uses to sitting for a slight extension of time and with a clock neutrally keeping time. Would you be interested in setting the timer for two hours daily for the next week or so and seeing how you and your mind respond to sitting that's a little longer and is just neutrally started and stopped by the timer? If this isn't something you usually do, a nice physical practice can be very useful before this: something cardiovascular (even a brisk sensate hour walk) and then followed by some hatha, long slow deep breathing yoga.

(I don't know if you have any/have reported any neurological issues, so you'll know best for yourself about whether this extension would be contraindicated for your mind. I will follow others and add the standard consideration to avoid having more than the normal caffeine you usually have to effect the slight extension).
thumbnail
Mike Knapp, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Pure Land One, or What the Heck? Have at it!

Posts: 63 Join Date: 10/26/11 Recent Posts
Hey Katy,

Thanks for responding. So, I don't have any neurological issues that would pose problems for increasing my time per meditation session, its more a matter of carving the time out of the day. Usually I meditate on my lunch break, so a two hour or longer meditation period won't work for that time-slot - especially if I'm going for a walk or something before hand. But that said, if that's the best course going forward I'm sure I can find the time somehow, if only for a few weeks.

I'm interested though, as to what you mean when you say "there are some basic good uses" to extending my time per meditation session "with a clock neutrally keeping time . . . and seeing how you and your mind respond . . .." Feel like sharing what you're up to, or is this a blind experiment? emoticon
thumbnail
Mike Knapp, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Pure Land One, or What the Heck? Have at it!

Posts: 63 Join Date: 10/26/11 Recent Posts
By the way all, I sat for a second time today, so the entry for that meditation is posted to my practice journal now too.
thumbnail
katy steger, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Pure Land One, or What the Heck? Have at it!

Posts: 1741 Join Date: 10/1/11 Recent Posts
Feel like sharing what you're up to, or is this a blind experiment?

I'm definitely NOT blind experimenting or randomly throwing something out for your life emoticon

I'm interested though, as to what you mean when you say "there are some basic good uses" to extending my time per meditation session "with a clock neutrally keeping time . . . and seeing how you and your mind respond . . .."
I just mean that.

To me, there are some natural times to extend the hobby --- it's a little bit like the wind is up, so why not sail a little more? And so long as you're not hurting yourself, and this is an activity you find worthwhile, and you're already in a "working on" mode, then time-in now is pretty pertinent.

Edit: Also, I related to the 45-minute time for a long phase in the practice and that moving into a slight extension was useful and, yes, good. With this, the neutrality of a timer was also useful, very good for letting the mind just do its practice.
thumbnail
Daniel M. Ingram, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Pure Land One, or What the Heck? Have at it! (Answer)

Posts: 3199 Join Date: 4/20/09 Recent Posts
Hey, I was wondering:

Can you slow the thing down just slightly, shift focus to the samatha aspect a bit more, and control when you shift from one state to the next?

It would be interesting to see what happened if you had more proper and controlled set up, such as shifting sequentially after a few minutes from 1st to 2nd to 3rd to 4th to 5th to 6th to 7th to 8th (then possibly to Fruition) then to whatever that thing is, letting each develop a bit more and shift only when you are really ready for them to shift, letting each form more of a stable base for the thing, such that it perhaps lasted a bit longer and you could really check it out and it wasn't so vibratory and shifty-sounding and more samatha-esque, more of a refined, stabilized, steady experience.

When I was getting into that thing that happened out past 8th and was jhanic and seemed like a fusion of things, It had the qualities of spaciousness, like 5th, with bliss like 2nd, and ease like some of the best of 3rd or 4th, but was more calm, easy, and really, really nice in a way that 4th is not, that being due to the bliss and the openness of the 5th-like aspect, that was what I called Pure Land One, in conjunction with Kenneth Folk's mapping thoughts on this.

Anyway, see if you can make the whole thing more consciously set up, a bit less vipassana-cyclic, a bit more Review/Mastery practice-like, and see if that helps clarify if you think it is Pure Land One, as, in the end, only you can decide that.

Helpful?

Daniel
thumbnail
Mike Knapp, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Pure Land One, or What the Heck? Have at it!

Posts: 63 Join Date: 10/26/11 Recent Posts
@ Daniel: Totally helpful. My experience of this state tracks your description of Pure Land One - but if anything seems to be "weaker" and less stable than your Pure Land One experience. The advice I seem to be getting so far is to stabilize this state and take my time investigating it through a more samatha-like process. This makes decent sense, since vipassana investigation leads to such a rapid fluxing of reality that I'm left with the feeling that my concentration abilities aren't sufficient to thoroughly investigate this experience. I'll try a more sequential and leisurely approach to negotiating the jhanic arc and see what happens. Thanks for the input!

@ Russell: Thanks for chiming in. To answer your questions in their order: (1) I attained 2nd path less than a month ago; (2) I don't have a teacher (and if anyone has any recommendations there (whether to get one or not - and if so, who) I would appreciate hearing them), and; (3) I'm at the end (I seem to be experiencing fruitions) of my first post-2nd path cycle.

(still) @ Russell: I appreciate your remark that "[t]he way to 3rd is not as mappable in context as 1st and 2nd. You will mostly likely go through several (if not more) full insight cycles that will feel like a completion and then it will start over again." That's helpful information - this is all new for me and a little context is much appreciated. Too, thanks for pointing out that my practice journal entries could use more phenomenologlical descriptors - I've been going for that, but falling-short is something I do sometimes - I'll redouble my efforts there.
thumbnail
Mike Knapp, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Pure Land One, or What the Heck? Have at it!

Posts: 63 Join Date: 10/26/11 Recent Posts
@ fivebells:

Hmm. Let me (weirdly) quote myself, then tell me what you think:

Mike Knapp:
The advice I seem to be getting so far [in this thread] is to stabilize [the state I'm calling Pure Land One] and take my time investigating it through a more samatha-like process. This makes decent sense, since vipassana investigation leads to such a rapid fluxing of reality that I'm left with the feeling that my concentration abilities aren't sufficient to thoroughly investigate this experience. I'll try a more sequential and leisurely approach to negotiating the jhanic arc and see what happens.


So that's what I was thinking I would do (and that's what I just talked about doing in my last post, above). Still recommend 3C investigation post-8th jhana instead of pure samatha throughout the jhanic arc? If so, why? Totally appreciate your input.
thumbnail
fivebells ., modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Pure Land One, or What the Heck? Have at it!

Posts: 563 Join Date: 2/25/11 Recent Posts
No, I missed that you are trying to stabilize the jhanas, sorry. 3Cs obviously won't be useful for that.
thumbnail
Mike Knapp, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Pure Land One, or What the Heck? Have at it!

Posts: 63 Join Date: 10/26/11 Recent Posts
No worries!

emoticon
thumbnail
fivebells ., modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Pure Land One, or What the Heck? Have at it!

Posts: 563 Join Date: 2/25/11 Recent Posts
For stabilizing them, you might try working first with first jhana, and ignoring any impulse to drop attention to pleasurable sensations. The jhanas are states of becoming, and you need to allow that becoming to persist for it to be stable. Lots of 3C's noting, which encourages the mind to drop whatever it grabs onto, would create a destabilizing tendency in this regard.

(If this doesn't make sense, just ignore it or keep telling me so. I have only attained stream entry in the 10-fetters sense [which did not involve any flashing lights etc.], and there may well be relevant aspects to 2nd/3rd path I don't comprehend. This and the previous suggestion are based on the understanding I've used for mastery of the first two jhanas, and ongoing development of 3rd and 5th.)
thumbnail
Nikolai ., modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Pure Land One, or What the Heck? Have at it!

Posts: 1650 Join Date: 1/23/10 Recent Posts
fivebells .:
For stabilizing them, you might try working first with first jhana, and ignoring any impulse to drop attention to pleasurable sensations. The jhanas are states of becoming, and you need to allow that becoming to persist for it to be stable. Lots of 3C's noting, which encourages the mind to drop whatever it grabs onto, would create a destabilizing tendency in this regard.

(If this doesn't make sense, just ignore it or keep telling me so. I have only attained stream entry in the 10-fetters sense [which did not involve any flashing lights etc.], and there may well be relevant aspects to 2nd/3rd path I don't comprehend. This and the previous suggestion are based on the understanding I've used for mastery of the first two jhanas, and ongoing development of 3rd and 5th.)


This practice worked at fleshing out the refined fabrications after the 8th. As did playing around with the moments before a cessation (infamous blip) occurs, resolvng to slow it down and use it as a base to solidify and give form to experiences being termed pure abode. Scripting = fabricating in my books, so perhaps following along to these videos may help.

The way i currently see it is, the three c's are perceptions not characteristics. They are a means to shift the habitual relationship the mind has with phenomena, taking phenomena to be of a seperate self to not doing that. Jhanas are also perceptions of certain factors which we can either perceive exclusively alone or couple with the perception of the impermanence, not self, or dukkha so as to allow the mind to cultivate dispassion for such fabrications till the stilling of such fabrications occurs. If one learns how we can shift perception about, say for example from the percpetion of impermanence to not self then to dukkha and back again or mixing it up, one should be able to then shift perception to the jhana's factors and attributes alone at will and not move from there. If the mind is being automatically pulled to perceiving the three perceptions, then perhaps mastering the art of perception is something to experiment with so one can play around and get dispassionate for all the sublte fabrications that may slide under the radar as solidifed somewhat. One way to master the art of perception is the following in my experience:

http://thehamiltonproject.blogspot.com.au/2011/09/yogi-experiment-hacking-vedana.html?q=Hacking+vedana


Nick

Edited
thumbnail
fivebells ., modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Pure Land One, or What the Heck? Have at it!

Posts: 563 Join Date: 2/25/11 Recent Posts
I don't understand that video. How can he be in the formless realms if he is talking? Is he attending to the bodily fabrications involved? Interesting to follow along, in any case.

Edit: Thanks, I understand now.
thumbnail
Nikolai ., modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Pure Land One, or What the Heck? Have at it!

Posts: 1650 Join Date: 1/23/10 Recent Posts
fivebells .:

Edit: Thanks, I understand now.


How so?
thumbnail
fivebells ., modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Pure Land One, or What the Heck? Have at it!

Posts: 563 Join Date: 2/25/11 Recent Posts
I actually responded with the edit having read your updated comment too quickly, and thought you were saying that you have the skill to switch between the perceptions needed for talking and those comprising the jhana relatively quickly. Once I re-read and realized I'd misunderstood, I'd decided that what I'd inferred must be what's going on.

That hacking vedana technique is pretty cool. I just got done doing a session of that. It really let me see the fabrication of feeling, enough to drop it. I was doing something similar before, but the speed and simplicity of this technique, not to mention the direct vipassana intent, vs my earlier samatha intent, makes it much more effective at cutting the DO chain. My practice just leveled up dramatically. Thanks.
thumbnail
Nikolai ., modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Pure Land One, or What the Heck? Have at it!

Posts: 1650 Join Date: 1/23/10 Recent Posts
fivebells .:
I actually responded with the edit having read your updated comment too quickly, and thought you were saying that you have the skill to switch between the perceptions needed for talking and those comprising the jhana relatively quickly. Once I re-read and realized I'd misunderstood, I'd decided that what I'd inferred must be what's going on.



Yes, I can switch quickly. The switching happens with will of mind instant intention/mental movement. My mind caught on fast with the jhana handles post 1st 'infamous blip'. If talking and 'analysis' share mental space with the jhana factors the 'jhana' is a weaker surface version but still takes 'shape' so to speak, but if thinking and analysis cease, the mind locks on to the primary object of awareness (the factor/s that define the 'jhana') and stills on that. But eventually due to practice of dispassion, the urge to continue with such perceptions wanes and drops and it's just the world perceived clearly, unwarped and not covered over with a mental projection/overlay/perception (whether it be a jhana factor or one of the three useful dispassion cultivating perceptions).

This result came about after the first 'infamous blip' a few years back and become even easier upon further baseline shifts. Though it could be argued that the 'jhanas' I experience' are a very different beast due to the differing perceptual baseline. If people don't share the same baseline, a 'jhana' may present quite differently, and ease of movement from one perception to another may be easier or harder.

Nick
Russell ., modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Pure Land One, or What the Heck? Have at it!

Posts: 92 Join Date: 10/19/11 Recent Posts
I agree with Daniel. I was doing mostly shamatha practices between 2nd and 3rd path. Really getting a handle on jhanas and riding the arc up and down. When the PL Jhanas showed up it was completely unexpected and "WOW" kind of pleasant with a mighty afterglow.

Might I ask, How long ago did you get 2nd path? Do you have a teacher? How many full cycles have you gone through since 2nd path? Or have you noticed?

The way to 3rd is not as mappable in context as 1st and 2nd. You will mostly likely go through several (if not more) full insight cycles that will feel like a completion and then it will start over again. You also seem to be using language straight from MCTB about your experiences, mostly talking about "vibrations" and "formations." Try to be more phenomenological in your descriptions so people with other backgrounds might be able to put it into context and help you out better.
thumbnail
Mike Knapp, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Pure Land One, or What the Heck? Have at it!

Posts: 63 Join Date: 10/26/11 Recent Posts
I tried a samatha approach today, and it went . . . like . . . this:

I closed my eyes and concentration was high. I allowed awareness to alight on the pleasant sensation of the weight of my flesh hanging on my skeletal structure. Awareness would move around a bit and get distracted, but only a little, and each time I noted distraction, awareness settled back on the pleasantness of the weight of my flesh. I call the this the First Samatha Jhana. Then there was a sort of sensory blossoming as pleasantness gave way to complete physical rapture. My whole body vibrated with pleasure and awareness (unlike in the First Samatha Jhana) wasn't distractable anymore - it was right there, consumed by and consuming this rapture. I call this the Second Samatha Jhana. Somehow or other, the physical rapture of the Second Samatha Jhana kind of went menthol - it cooled in this delightfully refreshing way, like jumping into a pool out of a dry sauna; there was a flavor of equanimity then, but only a touch; it was more a mellowing-out of physical rapture and a more panoramic perspective on the experience. I call this the Third Samatha Jhana. Then the physical stuff pretty much dropped away. I could still "feel" the body, but equanimity came to the fore in a big, big way, and experiencing the sense-field became very smooth and silky. I call this the Fourth Samatha Jhana. Then there was a transition. Awareness shifted from the feel of perceiving the sense-field (smooth and silky), to the dimensions of the sense-field (3D and spacious). I call this Boundless Space. Then there was a transition. Suddenly the spaciousness of the sense-field seemed to include, and simultaneously be, all of my awareness; awareness went way beyond the borders of my body, and seemed to have no end in sight - it just went on and on as far as the sense-field went. I call this Boundless Consciousness. Then it was almost as if this HUGE, HUGE, SPACIOUS AWARENESS was just a HUGE, HUGE DRAG, and my awareness folded down on itself like a tent with no poles. It just went *floop* into a two dimensional pile on the ground - which (strange to say) was a nice break. I call this Nothingness. I didn't perceive anything except that I wasn't perceiving much except my own awareness collapse. I'm guessing this was Neither Perception Nor Yet Non-Perception. Then my awareness went from idle to active in my body, transitioned to my third eye, then moved from there to the crown of my head in short order. It was like there was a no barrier between the inside of me and the outside right there at the crown. My eyes rolled up in my head. There was the glorious, lovely opening in the crown of my head and out if was poring love and well being all over my body. My visual field glowed a light gray. I was so grateful for this love and well being - which had a character that was smooth and manageable (read "not ecstatic") but was profound and permeated all of my awareness. I call this Pure Land One. Then awareness shifted from the crown of my head back down to my third eye area and the whole of my body started to vibrate from there down. It was like the area above my third eye didn't exist, and everything below it was just electricity - like static or something. Then the rest of my head caught-up and my whole body was like static electricity from the crown down. I don't know what to call this. I hung-out in each of these states as long as I really wanted with no real rush to move on. When a transition happened, it just happened. I moved up the jhanic arc in this way up to the static electricity part, then moved back down to what I call the First Samatha Jhana, then back up to static, then back down, then back up, then back down to around Boundless Space when the session ended. Each trip up and down, I lingered in the various states longer, and the experience of the states was fuller and more intense. When I came out of the session, I felt rested, and experiential reality had a smooth "chill" factor to it that was very pleasant and very different than the semi-exhausted, destabilized feel I have when I come out of a vipassana session. The end. Jeez! What a long post!
thumbnail
fivebells ., modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Pure Land One, or What the Heck? Have at it!

Posts: 563 Join Date: 2/25/11 Recent Posts
Sounds very cool. Try switching back to 3C's noting when you get to eighth.
thumbnail
Mike Knapp, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Pure Land One, or What the Heck? Have at it!

Posts: 63 Join Date: 10/26/11 Recent Posts
Can anyone (including but not limited to Russell) weigh-in on Russell's comment:

The way to 3rd is not as mappable in context as 1st and 2nd. You will mostly likely go through several (if not more) full insight cycles that will feel like a completion and then it will start over again.


This isn't the first time I've run into comments like this about Third Path. For me, First and Second path were pretty cut-and-dried in terms of progressing through the 16 insight knowledges and then popping out on the other end at the first insight knowledge of the next path. My experience with the path to Third is a little less straight forward and a little guidance would be much appreciated!
thumbnail
Nikolai ., modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Pure Land One, or What the Heck? Have at it!

Posts: 1650 Join Date: 1/23/10 Recent Posts
Best advice for all 'paths' as talked of here, for 1st to 2nd, 2nd to 3rd, 3 rd to 4th in my opinion. Too much worry and frustration and not knowing what to do, oh what to do, is typical it seems in latter 'paths'. The following sidesteps this fussing.






For Stream-Enterers: A Different Way of Doing 2nd Path (and 3rd and 4th)

i'm writing this for stream-enterers, to suggest an alternate way of
doing 2nd path; alternate, that is, to what daniel ingram writes about
in 'mastering the core teachings of the buddha'. keep in mind as you
read this that the evidence behind this suggestion is mostly based on
the experiences of one person, me. i should also point out that in no
way am i knocking what worked so well for me for getting 1st path. i
would probably still be wandering around aimlessly, alternating
between getting oddly neurotic about my crap and spacing out into
equanimity and the formless strata, if it weren't for daniel, his
book, mahasi, and the maps. however, my rapid success at finishing 2nd
path makes me think this is worth putting out there because the method
i employed was so markedly different from how daniel portrays 2nd path
practice that i think other people should know about this alternative
as a possibility.

daniel recommends doing 2nd path like he recommends doing 1st path:
note note note, rise through the cycles, let it sync up, pop a
fruition. i did not do this. in fact, although i'd already dropped
into the next mind-and-body, i thought it might be better to not start
another path so soon and made no effort to cross the a&p. i went about
my daily life, making little or no time for formal practice, and
electing instead to, purely out of curiosity and fascination, watch
inclusively and in particular to see through the sensations that make
up the notions of 'inclusive', 'watching', and 'centre' whenever it
occurred to me to do so, or whenever it just happened on its own
(which, upon reflection, happened pretty often). the times i noticed
the cycles at all, i noticed them in a very basic and uninterested
way, made no effort to investigate them or the sensations that make
them up, and only recognised when i'd broken into a new stage after a
day or two had already passed. in retrospect, the a&p was inspiring
and energised, the dark night sucked, and equanimity was equanimity..
but i wouldn't have been able to tell you that while it was going on
(except by two days into the dark night, i knew it sucked).

here is the suggestion:
if, in working on 2nd path (or 3rd and 4th) you find yourself scrambling up the
insight ladder just because you think you're supposed to, but are not
sure why you're doing this, it might work for you to focus on seeing
the quality of the sensations here and now in an open and inclusive
way, keeping a clear eye on the so-called background to see if
anything's moving around back here. ignore everything that is not
obviously the clear and direct answer of paying attention here and
now.

it didn't occur to me, for the most part, to try to move from one
stage to another, but while i was in the dark night, i got concerned
about making progress for a day or two. but when it occurred to me
that i was only doing that because of pain and worry, i resolved to
stop running away and promptly did. if you tune your eye in to the
here and now, all that stuff will just rush by like water going down
the drain. just keep re-tuning your eye to this, knowing that none of
it is the solution. scary, mildly yet deeply painful, but try to run
this process in the back of your mind again and again while you're
going about your day. that's all i did, and less than a week after
crossing the new a&p, i got a fruition that left the background
shattered thoroughly and in an entirely new way. i had no idea i was
that close. it took a few hours to be sure i'd really finished the
path (but that still beat the few days it took to be sure about the
first one), and when i'd answered that question to my own
satisfaction, the certainty did not come from having had another
fruition, but from the clear difference in my baseline (read: right
now) perception and the diminished level of solidity in it.

so, once again:

see the sensations here and now in an open and inclusive way, paying
careful attention to the totality of experience as well as what seems
to be 'outside' that totality. don't get caught up about what things
mean and if you do, don't give a shit that you're caught up cos you're
not really, you just think you are. just keep paying attention in such
a way that nothing will take it away. the cycles may, and probably
will, happen, but ignore them and basically just practise as if you're
already in equanimity regardless of what shows up.

you don't have to wait until going for 3rd path to do this if it makes
sense to you to do this here and now.

tarin greco (theprisonergreco)
thumbnail
Mike Knapp, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Pure Land One, or What the Heck? Have at it!

Posts: 63 Join Date: 10/26/11 Recent Posts
That's good practice advise, Nick, and I appreciate you posting it here.

It doesn't exactly answer my question though (unless you're telling me not to ask my question at all (which I guess you could be)): my question is this whether the insight territory between Second and Third Path involves multiple cycles through the insight knowledges, or just one cycle that is a little difficult to "map"?

If you are telling me not to worry about it, that's fine emoticon. But maybe tell me straight-up, because I'm a little dense at times, and I am most certainly confused about this issue (and maybe in general).
thumbnail
Nikolai ., modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Pure Land One, or What the Heck? Have at it!

Posts: 1650 Join Date: 1/23/10 Recent Posts
Mike Knapp:
That's good practice advise, Nick, and I appreciate you posting it here.

It doesn't exactly answer my question though (unless you're telling me not to ask my question at all (which I guess you could be)): my question is this whether the insight territory between Second and Third Path involves multiple cycles through the insight knowledges, or just one cycle that is a little difficult to "map"?

If you are telling me not to worry about it, that's fine emoticon. But maybe tell me straight-up, because I'm a little dense at times, and I am most certainly confused about this issue (and maybe in general).


Stop fussing about it, attend to that which will lead to progress, rather than worrying aout what to do to progress. Progress occurs when equanimity informs how the very formations that are fussing are experienced. Tarin progressed at a very fast rate. His advice is sound. I also progressed at a very fast rate, and i followed his advice as well.
thumbnail
Mike Knapp, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Pure Land One, or What the Heck? Have at it!

Posts: 63 Join Date: 10/26/11 Recent Posts
Thanks for being unambiguous, Nick.

Your comment that "Progress occurs when equanimity informs how the very formations that are fussing are experienced" is super interesting. It sounds like you're saying: pay attention to the here and now including your own paying attention to the here and now. Is that correct?
thumbnail
Nikolai ., modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Pure Land One, or What the Heck? Have at it! (Answer)

Posts: 1650 Join Date: 1/23/10 Recent Posts
Mike Knapp:
Thanks for being unambiguous, Nick.

Your comment that "Progress occurs when equanimity informs how the very formations that are fussing are experienced" is super interesting. It sounds like you're saying: pay attention to the here and now including your own paying attention to the here and now. Is that correct?


Yes, both supposed background and supposed foreground. This leads to progress.

see the sensations here and now in an open and inclusive way, paying
careful attention to the totality of experience as well as what seems
to be 'outside' that totality. don't get caught up about what things
mean and if you do, don't give a shit that you're caught up cos you're
not really, you just think you are. just keep paying attention in such
a way that nothing will take it away. the cycles may, and probably
will, happen, but ignore them and basically just practise as if you're
already in equanimity regardless of what shows up.
thumbnail
Mike Knapp, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Pure Land One, or What the Heck? Have at it!

Posts: 63 Join Date: 10/26/11 Recent Posts
Thanks for shooting straight. I appreciate your advice; it sounds solid and I plan on taking it.

Breadcrumb