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A message to everyone about the Siddhis/Iddhis

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I have spent a lot of time reading these forums, and I always happen to come across post of people declaring things about the Siddhis/Iddhis that are totally misinformative and clearly coming from a place of no experience.

People who are claiming that the various siddhis are strictly referring to only experiences in Lucid Dreaming, aka, Purely mentally contained experiences that cannot effect the physical reality, are wrong, plain and simple. Yes, when the mind develops, Lucid Dreaming and those sorts of things seem to be very common in the early Jhanas and certain 'powers' are possible..... but the 'consciousness' if you will, can develop far beyond that. A lot of people attempt to put allegorical/metaphorical spin on the Yoga Sutras and the siddhis claimed to come as a result of spiritual progress, severely downplaying their reality. The Yoga Sutras are extremely clear, and if you ask any guru of high spiritual attainment, you will understand this... but good luck finding someone like that on the internet.

I assume many of you reading this live in America, and the fact is you are not likely to find many people of that high attainment living in America... most of them are concentrated in areas of Asia, namely around India, Nepal, Tibet, and I say this with confidence from my personal journeys and experiences seeking out such individuals, with success.

I'm sure the spiritual community would highly appreciate it if false knowledge/assumptions would stop being spread as truth. Do not spread your experience-lacking assumptions as fact to people. It is incredibly misinformative and not to mention a bit deceptive and dishonest...

While logic is one of the primary things that help us advanced our understanding of the world, for most people it is also the number one thing that prevents us from moving forward, because too many individuals seem very eager to jump to unfounded conclusions.

I get the feeling some people might not like this post, but I'm asking ONLY one thing.... please do not assume things that you have no experiential understanding of and dictate your assumptions to people as truth, it is an insult to your integrity, to the community, and most importantly, to the people who have actually attained certain Spiritual heights.

AND REMEMBER: Spiritual Power is not indicative of a persons Spiritual Development. Many people unlock and experience various siddhis long before they reach spiritual heights... and THESE PEOPLE, I can assure you there will be a large portion of people who have experienced seemingly unexplainable experiences as a result of a lot of meditation practice, reading this, and knowing exactly what I am talking about. Experiences of mind-affecting-matter. They are out there, please do not insult us or the community with your ignorant assumptions.

*this is directed at no specific person, but at many. You know who you are. Please stop spreading misinformation. If you don't have experience in something, don't pretend you do just to seem experienced.

I will try to respond to this, but responses will be kept brief.

RE: A message to everyone about the Siddhis/Iddhis
Answer
6/15/13 9:44 AM as a reply to Scott V.
Honestly the Siddhis have scared me a bit recently.

There have been a couple occasions where I felt like my mind state caused bad things to happen.

Yesterday was a good example.

I was walking down the street, exerting myself quite vigorously doing something weird with my internal winds. I had been doing this for a bit and noticed some young men in the distance and to the right who were loading a ping pong table.

When I saw them for some reason I became afraid and had a feeling of being watched. I decided to "push through" the fear and focused very hard on the sensation of my feet touching the ground. The fear grew and grew to a crescendo and right as it hit its peak there was a loud crash that scared me out of what I was doing and I looked over and saw that the table had fallen on one of the young man's legs, who was crying out in pain.

The experience was disconcerting because it was almost felt like I influenced that in some way, because there had been this little voice earlier that had said I should stop and I didn't.

Another time I was driving around town in real agitation, thinking that I needed to go see my teacher and a visiting lama for a "transmission" and when I finally got there I walked up to the guy very determined to make eye contact, which I did. As soon as that happened I quickly learned that he and my teacher and a few others had just been in a violent car crash. I felt like somehow my agitated energy on the road had impacted the event.

RE: A message to everyone about the Siddhis/Iddhis
Answer
6/15/13 11:22 AM as a reply to Sleeping Buddha Syndrome.
I know many people who have reported experiences highly similar to yours. Those sort of things tend to be very common when a person is starting to make good progress with their Sadhana/Meditation.

It's no good when there are people going around stating these 'siddhis' are nothing more than dream-based hallucinations. For instance one statement from another thread I saw, reads:
If you want to use the powers to fly, you'll have to do so in a lucid dream, as physical reality won't permit you to.


Anyone who has been around the world actively chasing the spiritual life and seeking out actual masters knows this is simply not true. With pure intention, these 'masters' can be located easily. Physical reality is a very strange thing. There are many, if not hundreds+ of Yogis living today capable of Levitation, along with things far beyond what most people would believe possible. In a couple years on my travels I have witnessed and met a total of 4 Yogis living in isolation and away from modernized cities, who have demonstrated remarkable, "Physics defying" abilities. While I can't prove the science behind it, because I simply don't have the understanding, I know the things I have witnessed.... Levitation being among one unremarkable displays. I don't want to create a bunch of hype around these things, but these abilities exist, quite literally as they are described, which I attest to personally.

Anyone claiming(or pretending) to be an expert on the Siddhis is trying to deceive you. Few, if any self-realized person will brag to you about what they can do. These braggarts you might find online are most likely charlatans trying to create a following. Keep an open mind. There is no need to cultivate disbelief on something you have yet to prove to yourself. I struggle to understand why people feel it necessary to always form an opinion when they lack adequate knowledge/experience on a particular subject. How can an individual, with reasonable thought, declare with confidence the nonexistence nature of something they have never seen - it is the essence of ignorance.

RE: A message to everyone about the Siddhis/Iddhis
Answer
6/15/13 11:54 AM as a reply to Sleeping Buddha Syndrome.
A D R, so many of your posts lately have involved anxiety and agitation. Have you found any way to mitigate this?

RE: A message to everyone about the Siddhis/Iddhis
Answer
6/15/13 3:25 PM as a reply to fivebells ..
fivebells .:
A D R, so many of your posts lately have involved anxiety and agitation. Have you found any way to mitigate this?


I am taking a break from my retreat today and kind of chilling out a bit. I figured out yesterday (was experimenting when the above story took place) that if I let go of both grasping or aversion to the chakra points that I can let the sleepy feeling I get during the afternoon kind of filter up into my conscious mind and let it tranquilize some of my excitement.

Physiologically speaking, I think it has something to do with the muscles around the spinal column holding tension equally and in moderation.
Its kind of like walking around completely exhausted and yet not craving after wanting to go sleep, instead just kind of riding the line between sleep and excitement.

RE: A message to everyone about the Siddhis/Iddhis
Answer
6/17/13 4:22 PM as a reply to Scott V.
I've read these siddhis can be awaken through the use of some herbs and psychodelics. You have to know how to use them, first.

RE: A message to everyone about the Siddhis/Iddhis
Answer
6/18/13 6:37 AM as a reply to Sleeping Buddha Syndrome.
A D R:
Honestly the Siddhis have scared me a bit recently.

There have been a couple occasions where I felt like my mind state caused bad things to happen.

Yesterday was a good example.

I was walking down the street, exerting myself quite vigorously doing something weird with my internal winds. I had been doing this for a bit and noticed some young men in the distance and to the right who were loading a ping pong table.

When I saw them for some reason I became afraid and had a feeling of being watched. I decided to "push through" the fear and focused very hard on the sensation of my feet touching the ground. The fear grew and grew to a crescendo and right as it hit its peak there was a loud crash that scared me out of what I was doing and I looked over and saw that the table had fallen on one of the young man's legs, who was crying out in pain.

The experience was disconcerting because it was almost felt like I influenced that in some way, because there had been this little voice earlier that had said I should stop and I didn't.

Another time I was driving around town in real agitation, thinking that I needed to go see my teacher and a visiting lama for a "transmission" and when I finally got there I walked up to the guy very determined to make eye contact, which I did. As soon as that happened I quickly learned that he and my teacher and a few others had just been in a violent car crash. I felt like somehow my agitated energy on the road had impacted the event.


I think in the second example it was just coincidence. I can't see any link at all.

The first example - the accident - was very likely caused by you. But there's no siddhi here. You felt extremely anxious about being looked at, and that caused them to look at you. They pick up on your vibe, feel anxious themselves (Google mirror neurons) and then think: "something is wrong". Then the subconscious just creates an accident so that it all matches up nicely - ie. a reason for the thought "something is wrong". A person's energy, if strong enough in a particular direction, will influence those around him. Others pick up on it if they're not careful.

It's very similar to the Derren Brown stuff. Influence through thought transmission and suggestion.

If being looked at as you walk down the street is enough to make you anxious, meditation is probably going to aggravate your condition. Just a case of social anxiety. The words "determined to make eye contact" is strongly diagnostic. Such a thought wouldn't enter the minds of most people. Forget the Dho for the moment. Perhaps some more conventional help, then a job would be appropriate?

RE: A message to everyone about the Siddhis/Iddhis
Answer
6/25/13 9:45 PM as a reply to This Good Self.
C C C:

The first example - the accident - was very likely caused by you. But there's no siddhi here. You felt extremely anxious about being looked at, and that caused them to look at you. They pick up on your vibe, feel anxious themselves (Google mirror neurons) and then think: "something is wrong". Then the subconscious just creates an accident so that it all matches up nicely - ie. a reason for the thought "something is wrong". A person's energy, if strong enough in a particular direction, will influence those around him. Others pick up on it if they're not careful.


Well CCC I believe that you are onto something. Even though it is not a siddhi there is some understanding here. If everything is energy and somehow we can affect events with our "energy" then is that not magical? You stated, "then the subconscious just creates an accident so that it all matches up nicely." From my understanding when one can increase their energy to a high level these events starts happening more such as synchronicity from Carl Jung. These events that are seemingly improbable starts happening more and more. Then the next step is to just practice the flow of energy as energy follows thought. From practicing to single-pointed mind you will be able to access the subconscious more and understand that many things can be created by just the mind. But many who reach this level fail to realize that the greatest gift of all is being able to control your thoughts fully and silent the mind at all and in any situation. Just my two cents

RE: A message to everyone about the Siddhis/Iddhis
Answer
6/26/13 3:24 AM as a reply to Scott V.
I have spent a lot of time reading these forums, and I always happen to come across post of people declaring things about the Siddhis/Iddhis that are totally misinformative and clearly coming from a place of experience rather than logic or reason.

People who are claiming that the various siddhis are strictly referring to more than experiences in Lucid Dreaming, aka, Purely mentally contained experiences that cannot effect the physical reality, are wrong, plain and simple.
Yes, when the mind develops, Lucid Dreaming and those sorts of things seem to be very common in the early Jhanas and certain 'powers' are possible..... but the 'consciousness' if you will, cannot develop beyond that. A lot of people attempt to put a literal spin on the Yoga Sutras and the siddhis claimed to come as a result of spiritual progress, severely overplaying their reality. The Yoga Sutras are extremely clear, and if you ask any guru of high spiritual attainment, you will understand this... but good luck finding someone like that on the internet.

I'm sure the spiritual community would highly appreciate it if your misunderstanding of your experiences/knowledge/assumptions would stop being spread as truth. Do not spread your experiences as fact to people. It is incredibly misinformative and not to mention a bit deceptive and dishonest...

While experience is one of the primary things that help us advanced our understanding of the world, for most people it can prevent us from moving forward, because too many individuals seem very eager to jump to unfounded conclusions.

I get the feeling some people might not like this post, but I'm asking ONLY one thing.... please do not assume things that you have experiential understanding are real and more than just mind tricks, and dictate your assumptions to people as truth, it is an insult to your integrity, to the community, and most importantly, to the people who have actually attained certain Spiritual heights.

AND REMEMBER: Spiritual Power is not indicative of a persons Spiritual Development. Many people unlock and experience various siddhis long before they reach spiritual heights... and THESE PEOPLE, I can assure you there will be a large portion of people who have experienced seemingly unexplainable experiences as a result of a lot of meditation practice, reading this, and knowing exactly what I am talking about. Experiences of mind-affecting-matter. They are out there, please do not insult us or the community with your assumptions that these subjective mental experiences are representative of way the world actually is.

*this is directed at a specific person. You know who you are. Please stop spreading misinformation. If you have lots of experience in something, don't pretend that your experiences are representative of reality as it really is.

I will try to respond to this, but responses will be kept brief.

RE: A message to everyone about the Siddhis/Iddhis
Answer
6/26/13 6:48 AM as a reply to sawfoot _.
This does not adress his claim of having seen people actually levitating...

RE: A message to everyone about the Siddhis/Iddhis
Answer
6/26/13 6:52 AM as a reply to M N.
Mario Nistri:
This does not adress his claim of having seen people actually levitating... are you saying he is lying about that?
If so, on what basis?


I presume he isn't lying about having the experience of seeing people levitating.

But our experience of reality is just an experience. And that experience is fallible. It is not always a reliable indicator of the state of the
world. It is heavily distorted by our beliefs.

I look to the sky. I see something strange. The person who fervently believes that aliens are in contact with the earth sees a spaceship from a different planet. The meteorologist sees an unusual cloud formation.

RE: A message to everyone about the Siddhis/Iddhis
Answer
6/28/13 6:41 PM as a reply to sawfoot _.
"Deep in the human unconscious is a pervasive need for a logical universe that makes sense. But the real universe is always one step beyond logic."
-Dune by Frank Herbert