RE: Freed from naming things

J Adam G, modified 14 Years ago at 4/21/10 12:04 AM
Created 14 Years ago at 4/20/10 11:58 PM

RE: Freed from naming things

Posts: 286 Join Date: 9/15/09 Recent Posts
Yeah, the approach here can be pretty dry, though I think it appears drier than it actually is. Part of that may come from Daniel's love of hardcore, buckle-down, relentlessly-observe-the-Three-Characteristics style of meditation which is inspired greatly by Mahasi Sayadaw.

Also, people here don't tend to discuss the Brahmaviharas nearly as often as the IMS or Spirit Rock crowd. I don't quite know why this is. Perhaps there is a sentiment, almost assuredly nonconscious, that the brahmaviharas are inherently mushroomy. The refutation of that sentiment should be pretty self-evident. They're actually powerful tools to improve ALL of the Three Trainings, not just sila. They can be antidotes to hindrances in concentration meditation, and they can smooth out the suffering of any unpleasant phase of insight practice.

From my brief experience with brahmavihara, it's not an indulgence in distraction from the Three Characteristics during insight meditation. Rather, when used skillfully, it can soothe the mind and make it resilient enough to unblinkingly look the Three Characteristics right in the eye! There's something to be said for not frying ones mind with dry insight meditation or jnana yoga.

Much of the same could be said of jhana practice. In fact, jhana states with a brahmavihara as the meditation object might be a wonderful tool for any dark night yogi's box of anti-bleedthrough tools! Sure, that type of thing isn't mentioned much around here, but I don't think there would be any hostility to skillful use of that approach. Not by a long shot!

BTW Tarin, those flow charts you posted look pretty cool. It reminds me of my work with Global Relationship Centers which focused on dealing with sila-type issues, and when there are no Big Issues active, life is joyful with a minimum of effort to keep attending to the joyfulness. Sort of like "my life is actually perfect in this moment if for no other reason than my choice to generate feelings of joy and love," though that's a pretty big oversimplification to someone who has no idea how to get there. However, I'm missing the connection between that type of approach and the type of thing that leads to PCE. I'm assuming that PCE is like the 2nd or 3rd gear from Kenneth Folk's transmission. How does deciding to be fine right now lead to The Witness or to nondual awareness? Am I just reading my own experiences onto a flowchart that was presenting something totally different?
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tarin greco, modified 13 Years ago at 4/27/10 2:54 AM
Created 13 Years ago at 4/27/10 2:51 AM

RE: Freed from naming things

Posts: 658 Join Date: 5/14/09 Recent Posts
J C:

Secondly, I would like to explain the methodology I employ for this purpose, my sadhana, and hope perhaps you would say whether your sadhana is pure straight ahead Buddhist meditation or not.


the prisoner greco:

my sadhana was, by the end, not at all buddhist meditation, whether pure straight ahead or otherwise. i employed methods advocated by richard (over at his website) and developed some modifications of my own. i explained the method to a practitioner here enquiring about it some weeks ago by way of flowchart; here is that chart again, along with another one which explicates a potentially vague part of the first:

chart
chart 2


J Adam G:

BTW Tarin, those flow charts you posted look pretty cool. It reminds me of my work with Global Relationship Centers which focused on dealing with sila-type issues, and when there are no Big Issues active, life is joyful with a minimum of effort to keep attending to the joyfulness. Sort of like "my life is actually perfect in this moment if for no other reason than my choice to generate feelings of joy and love," though that's a pretty big oversimplification to someone who has no idea how to get there. However, I'm missing the connection between that type of approach and the type of thing that leads to PCE. I'm assuming that PCE is like the 2nd or 3rd gear from Kenneth Folk's transmission. How does deciding to be fine right now lead to The Witness or to nondual awareness? Am I just reading my own experiences onto a flowchart that was presenting something totally different?


given that (to the best of my knowledge) neither kenneth folk nor anyone else who practises his three gears methods lives in a perpetual pure consciousness experience (pce), i think it is likely you are just reading your own experiences onto a flowchart that was written to present something totally different.

what i drew up that first flowchart to present is a means by which one can make a particular mode of experience (which i have therein dubbed 'perfection') permanent. however, if one's present mode of experience is not perfect as such (in other terms, is not immediately a pce), then the step i advise in the chart is for one to find the nearest approximation to perfection that one can, here and now (either by recognising its qualitative similarity to a remembered pce or by tuning in to the qualities present which are clearly and indubitably ideal)... done properly, this will, over time, lead to more clarity about how to evince a pce directly. however, if one is unable to tune in to such an approximation of perfection (which would be likely due to one being uncertain about how this is done), then what i recommend is to, in no uncertain terms, enjoy this moment of being alive (which is markedly different from, and superior to, merely 'deciding to be fine' with it). such enjoyment will, over time, occasionally reveal the traits of perfection, similar to how if one gazes at a pond, one will occasionally see sparkles of light reflecting off of fish which have come to the surface at the right spots. someone who catches enough of these sparkles will get an idea of what i mean by the traits of perfection soon or later (and will be having a great time meanwhile).. and someone with a zest for enjoying themselves (who has an enthusiasm for gusto) will catch enough of these sparkles sooner rather than later. (there, could i really drop any more hints than i just have?)

and yet, i understand that enjoying oneself can be unexpectedly (and possibly even frustratingly at first) difficult at times, both from my own past experience as well as some feedback i've received to that first chart, and so i drew up the second one to address this. in the second chart, the entire point is for one to enjoy this experience of being alive here and now; if there is any inability to simply enjoy being here, or diminishment in such enjoyment, the step i suggest one take is to find out why one isn't having a good time. as soon as the reason has been discovered, i propose asking oneself if whatever that reason is (dubbed, in the chart, 'xyz') is worth missing out on enjoying this moment of being alive; the answer is obviously no[1], and one is back having a good time.

on the other hand, if there can be no reason found for why one is not having a good time (and remember that it here does not pay to be anything less than fully sincere with oneself), then the step i recommend is to realise that being alive is important (as one has a vested interest in it, it is personally important) and so to get back to feeling good as quickly as possible... i advise one to do this by whatever means one finds necessary in order to effect enjoyment. over time (and a bit of time may be required), one will be back to enjoying being here.

after this explication, do you still think this process resembles the practices of global relationship centers which are focused on dealing with sila-type issues, or that it is anything like kenneth's practices aimed at manifesting the witness and nondual awareness?

tarin

[1] the reason there is no 'yes' arrow leading off from that box is because of an implicit assumption i had when i made the chart, namely that if one is attempting to follow it, then one has already consciously decided (that is, has arrived intellectually at the decision) that there isn't anything worth missing out on enjoying this moment of being alive for. however, if one, in a lapse of judgement, finds oneself at some point deciding otherwise, then the dissonance caused by looking for the 'yes' arrow (as in, 'yes xyz is worth missing out on enjoying this moment of being alive for') and finding that there is no such option may evoke humour and bring one back to one's senses.. at which point one is free to resume having fun.
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tarin greco, modified 13 Years ago at 4/27/10 3:01 AM
Created 13 Years ago at 4/27/10 3:01 AM

RE: Freed from naming things

Posts: 658 Join Date: 5/14/09 Recent Posts
i split this off from the 'freed from naming things' thread to prevent that thread from going off-topic.
J Adam G, modified 13 Years ago at 4/28/10 8:17 PM
Created 13 Years ago at 4/28/10 8:17 PM

RE: Freed from naming things

Posts: 286 Join Date: 9/15/09 Recent Posts
I see, sounds like what you're talking about is pretty separate from sila or learning to enjoy life in an everyday sense. All of it looks pretty interesting. Personally, I'll be focusing on vipassana from now until stream entry. However, Review will be a great time to look at lots of other things such as really developing shamatha, and working with the 3-speed transmission model and AF methods.

Thank you for the thorough explanation! I look forward to the possibility of directly experiencing what you're talking about rather than discussing it.
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tarin greco, modified 13 Years ago at 5/9/10 5:54 AM
Created 13 Years ago at 4/28/10 10:07 PM

RE: Freed from naming things

Posts: 658 Join Date: 5/14/09 Recent Posts
what i'm talking about is learning to enjoy life in an everyday sense as much as possible so that feelings such as exuberance and joie de vivre are vividly roused and become a potent force. to quote richard, the guy who started the AF thing, on one of the many ways he's worded the process i wrote the above charts to eludicate:

Richard:

The felicitous/ innocuous feelings are in no way docile, lack-lustre affections ... in conjunction with sensuosity they make for an extremely forceful/ potent combination as, with all of the affective energy channelled into being as happy and harmless as is humanly possible (and no longer being frittered away on love and compassion/ malice and sorrow), the full effect of ‘me’ at the core of ‘my’ being – which is ‘being’ itself – is dynamically enabled for one purpose and one purpose alone.


hence, the process i laid out does bear some relation to those things to which you referred (sila and enjoying life in an everyday sense), as feeling the joy of life (and being as happy and harmless as is humanly possible as a result) is conducive to good social conduct (the purpose of sila), and dynamically enabling yourself for the purpose of living in perfection forever is, well, very enjoyable. however, this process is aimed at a goal that practising sila and merely experiencing (as opposed to outright maximising) everyday enjoyment are not, and so in this regard you are correct in determining that what i am describing is something separate.. and different.

good luck getting stream-entry sooner rather than later.