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Not first path yet Banned For waht? 4/2/15 6:19 AM
RE: Making it clearer Banned For waht? 7/16/13 2:16 PM
RE: Making it clearer Nikolai . 7/16/13 9:56 PM
RE: Making it clearer Rednaxela 4/28/15 12:56 PM
RE: Making it clearer Banned For waht? 4/28/15 3:20 PM
RE: Making it clearer Rednaxela 4/28/15 3:40 PM
RE: Making it clearer Rednaxela 4/28/15 4:24 PM
RE: Making it clearer Banned For waht? 4/29/15 5:46 AM
RE: Making it clearer Rednaxela 4/29/15 8:27 AM
RE: Making it clearer Banned For waht? 4/29/15 10:48 AM
RE: Making it clearer Rednaxela 4/30/15 11:58 AM
RE: Making it clearer Banned For waht? 4/30/15 10:01 AM
RE: Making it clearer Banned For waht? 4/30/15 10:04 AM
RE: Making it clearer Rednaxela 4/30/15 11:37 AM
RE: Making it clearer Banned For waht? 4/30/15 11:44 AM
RE: Making it clearer Rednaxela 4/30/15 12:11 PM
RE: Making it clearer Rednaxela 5/1/15 8:52 AM
RE: Making it clearer Banned For waht? 5/2/15 5:55 AM
RE: Making it clearer Rednaxela 5/4/15 9:53 AM
RE: Making it clearer Banned For waht? 5/18/15 8:14 AM
RE: Making it clearer Nikolai . 7/16/13 10:39 PM
RE: Making it clearer Banned For waht? 7/17/13 7:33 AM
RE: Making it clearer Banned For waht? 7/18/13 1:30 PM
RE: Making it clearer Banned For waht? 7/20/13 7:24 AM
RE: Making it clearer Banned For waht? 8/21/13 1:52 AM
RE: Making it clearer Banned For waht? 4/25/14 9:15 AM
RE: Making it clearer Banned For waht? 11/18/14 7:39 AM
RE: Not first path yet Banned For waht? 4/2/15 7:05 AM
RE: Not first path yet Not Tao 4/2/15 1:28 PM
RE: Not first path yet Banned For waht? 4/3/15 6:43 AM
RE: Not first path yet Banned For waht? 4/24/15 7:27 AM
RE: Not first path yet Banned For waht? 4/24/15 7:38 AM
RE: Not first path yet Noah 4/26/15 12:11 AM
RE: Not first path yet Banned For waht? 4/26/15 1:06 PM
RE: Not first path yet Noah 4/26/15 1:20 PM
Not first path yet
Answer
4/2/15 6:19 AM
hi!, i wanted to say something about how to do it.

Preliminary work: read everything about mindfulness and noting and letting go and start practicing noting for strengthening the mindfulness and concentration simultaneously. I gave noting up after some time.

1. To attain first path, use surrender/letting go. That means don't try to do anything, just be awake and still.

Doing this have had some fruitions, at first i didn't know what they are, because expected something big but instead they were just moments what induced a satisfactory done feeling thus ended the meditation session every time when it happened.
After some time it started to feel stagnant because i didn't know how to progress fast.
I read about self and kundalini learned the chakras, i also have read taoist alchemy. Meanwhile trying to figure out what is the "Now" what everybody speaking, something like being here and now or dwelling in present moment.

Then one day while meditating i got insight of trying myself force away from the stuff what were hitting me and was annoying(like heartbeating, breathing, pulse, bugs etc). I started really a struggle inside of myself, lots of ideas started to circle like i can't run away. Started questioning who i am, seriously what makes me being here.
Then I found the feeling "what makes me here feeling/feeling what let me know to myself that i exist" I figured that i can make that feeling stronger by will and force and i can choose the intensity of it. Also noticed it made the vibrations faster.
(later i searched in google what it is and its correct name is "applying the sushumna")

2. path- i used the same applying the sushumna method and started to notice that the capacity to force it grows very fast, i liked it because it meant tangible progress. Then one day i got 2nd path, put i didn't recognized it as path, but it was something more stronger event, it has tangible afterglow..but i didn't manage to repeat it because i moved forward to next path.

3th- i continued the method of making myself more real(applying sushumna) and got 3th path, and things got more clear and happy.

Sometime between or after 2,3 path i read book, Daniel Ingram's MCTB... Then i started to think back and recognized three different very similar events and also the dark nights etc, very good book. Also thx to that book got clear what are the doors.
And got to know that there is the Nirodha samapatti. I wanted to experience it...

4th path-
i read that from that book that its removing the last knot, and its very hard to reach that far,gave me the impression that its near impossible. For me it took more time than 2nd and 3rd but i didn't had dark night that made it for me easier. Dark night disappeared after 3rd.
But the point is that using the method applying sushumna..i manage to have rock solid nirvikalpa samaphatti(8th jhana), i knew what to look for. I entered nirvana, started catching the self feeling, applying myself(sushumna) then i saw the neutral feeling(it has many names like gate, nothingness etc) and took it as object and i was on the other side of the coin, the stuff was hitting the nothingness what i was holding and it doesn't affected me the "watcher".
The other day i got to the Nirodha samapatti. And before started practice i got the inner feeling of reaching it. Its a place of solid awareness and darkness. Then after sometime thought rise by itself and i got back from there.

After having these experiences i started to contemplate what have happened. I knew before that what we are doing is that we are rediscovering ourselves what we already are and always have been, so it must be doable here and now without going in some kind of jhana or state of mind. Searched from the internet the meanings of these experiences. Nirvikalpa is basically Jiva(individual soul,atma) have a taste what it looks like to be Paramatma. And there is the total extinction but awareness remains state. I then made myself so clear as i can be, then my awareness met with the "knot" and it resolved. And it was second time(felt like it) i do it but first time wasn't enough, i suppose, to really get it.

Conclusion is: there is 3 paths because there is three groups of chakras, according to Taoism, there is lower, middle and higher dan'tians. What you are doing is leading prenatal energies to the head/higher dantians. And there comes the three unknown events. First level is you don't identify yourself with sensual things, 2nd level is you don't identify yourself with the things you need to do, actions.3rd is you don't identify yourself with the thoughts.

4th just is making the conclusion what it is to be satcitananda/god consciousness+bliss and let it happen. I have no idea what else than this could be the 4th path arahant.

you will get it fast by figuring out how to apply sushumna and force kundalini to 7th chakra- to head. When you can do apply the sushumna then possible at least within a year, disciplined meditation and contemplation and reading as much as you can(about self/who you are). from waking up to falling asleep.
Every time you stuck then ask help from inside. There is Lord who is watching you and already knowing every your move in advance and protecting you. Trust him.

RE: Making it clearer
Answer
7/16/13 2:16 PM as a reply to Banned For waht?.
wanted to add effects: mental side of it.

when concentrating on the middle of the brain, it will activate pineal gland. Cracking sound is heard and blue light flashes.
first path
AP event was a some kind of altered state in dark space and i saw stuff moving towards me. When it ended i assumed that it was related to cause and effect or something like that.

second path AP event was, i was listening to the music and suddenly got into altered sate and was seeing myself as third person.
thought that it is some kind of profound stuff.

third path AP event was, i was sitting on a sauna and telephone rang and i got into altered sate of mind where ringing and me was one. Even better, i am a master.

fourth path there wasn't anything noteworthy as AP event.

Now those stuff i consider something different than AP event.
Have experienced some stuff in middle of the dream what turned out to be real happening when waking up and it still going on. First time was a intense electrical buzzing in upper chest almost painful.
Just lately on my lower back, same thing happened intense electrical buzzing.

Pastlife like experiences: stuff what you know after you have coming out of it. Like you wearing old clothes old hat and once i saw the idea of a person it had lots of information(what of course i don't remember) but it was the same feeling what felt when i saw my own idea what my mind is holding.
Visions, lucid dreams, sometimes things you see feels like real.

Then amusing is that i asked help when i really was stuck and i asked next level. Always got it.

About dark nights- third one is the worst, felt all the chakras hurting burning. Some kind of purgatory. At the same time i knew that i myself is causing this hell but i didn't know how to stop it. Of course i knew that if i would go to sleep or play games or watch movie but it isn't a solution.

What feels being done. Its like you finish university and you will get the paper and think that is it!? or when you finish all missions on gta you got that empty "is that it" feeling.

There isn't an angel or master appear before you and tell you have done it and take your hand to heaven. That sucks.

Everything is exactly the same, and rather it feels like someone else has done it not me. Also the feeling that someone has said it already.
Maybe i am deluded. Maybe mind can replicate everything.

RE: Making it clearer
Answer
7/16/13 10:39 PM as a reply to Banned For waht?.
Hi Rist,

Rist Ei:
hi!, i wanted to say something about how to do it.


Since the title of this thread says "making it clearer", I hope you don't mind expanding on what you wrote.

Preliminary work: read everything about mindfulness and noting and letting go and start practicing noting for strengthening the mindfulness and concentration simultaneously. I gave noting up after some time.

1. To attain first path, use surrender/letting go. That means don't try to do anything, just be awake and still.

Doing this have had some fruitions,


What is a 'fruition' in your own words. Describe it phenomenologically please.

at first i didn't know what they are, because expected something big but instead they were just moments what induced a satisfactory done feeling thus ended the meditation session every time when it happened.

Please explain the before and after affects phenomenologically of what you are calling a 'fruition'.

After some time it started to feel stagnant because i didn't know how to progress fast.
I read about self and kundalini learned the chakras, i also have read taoist alchemy. Meanwhile trying to figure out what is the "Now" what everybody speaking, something like being here and now or dwelling in present moment.

Then one day while meditating i got insight of trying myself force away from the stuff what were hitting me and was annoying(like heartbeating, breathing, pulse, bugs etc). I started really a struggle inside of myself, lots of ideas started to circle like i can't run away. Started questioning who i am, seriously what makes me being here.
Then I found the feeling "what makes me here feeling/feeling what let me know to myself that i exist" I figured that i can make that feeling stronger by will and force and i can choose the intensity of it. Also noticed it made the vibrations faster.
(later i searched in google what it is and its correct name is "applying the sushumna").


Can you provide a link to this practice please.

2. path- i used the same applying the sushumna method and started to notice that the capacity to force it grows very fast, i liked it because it meant tangible progress. Then one day i got 2nd path, put i didn't recognized it as path, but it was something more stronger event, it has tangible afterglow..but i didn't manage to repeat it because i moved forward to next path.

What changed after what you are calling '2nd path'? What was the perceptual baseline like? What is absent? What has arisen? What seems different?


3th- i continued the method of making myself more real(applying sushumna) and got 3th path, and things got more clear and happy.


Please answer the same questions as above for what you are calling '3rd path'.

Sometime between or after 2,3 path i read book, Daniel Ingram's MCTB... Then i started to think back and recognized three different very similar events and also the dark nights etc, very good book. Also thx to that book got clear what are the doors.
And got to know that there is the Nirodha samapatti. I wanted to experience it...


What is the experience of 'nirodha samapatti' in your own words?


4th path-
i read that from that book that its removing the last knot, and its very hard to reach that far,gave me the impression that its near impossible. For me it took more time than 2nd and 3rd but i didn't had dark night that made it for me easier. Dark night disappeared after 3rd.
But the point is that using the method applying sushumna..i manage to have rock solid nirvikalpa samaphatti(8th jhana),



Any links where it says this nirvikalpa samaphatti is the same as 8th jhana? Also please provide a phenomenological desctiption of what you are calling the '8th jhana'.


i knew what to look for. I entered nirvana,



What is 'nirvana' in your own experience phenomenoligically? Please give a detailed description of what you are calling 'nirvana'.


started catching the self feeling,


where you 'catching the self feeling' while in what you are calling 'nirvana'?

applying myself(sushumna) then i saw the neutral feeling(it has many names like gate, nothingness etc)


What do you mean by 'nothingness'? As in the 7th jhana experience?

and took it as object and i was on the other side of the coin, the stuff was hitting the nothingness what i was holding and it doesn't affected me the "watcher".



This is all still happening while in what you are calling 'nirvana'?


The other day i got to the Nirodha samapatti. And before started practice i got the inner feeling of reaching it. Its a place of solid awareness and darkness. Then after sometime thought rise by itself and i got back from there.

Again, what is 'nirodha samapatti' in your own experience? Please provide phenomenological descriptions.

After having these experiences i started to contemplate what have happened. I knew before that what we are doing is that we are rediscovering ourselves what we already are and always have been, so it must be doable here and now without going in some kind of jhana or state of mind. Searched from the internet the meanings of these experiences. Nirvikalpa is basically Jiva(individual soul,atma) have a taste what it looks like to be Paramatma. And there is the total extinction but awareness remains state. I then made myself so clear as i can be, then my awareness met with the "knot" and it resolved. And it was second time(felt like it) i do it but first time wasn't enough, i suppose, to really get it.


Please give a description of what you mean by 'knot'. How did it resolve phenomenologically?

Conclusion is: there is 3 paths because there is three groups of chakras, according to Taoism, there is lower, middle and higher dan'tians. What you are doing is leading prenatal energies to the head/higher dantians. And there comes the three unknown events. First level is you don't identify yourself with sensual things, 2nd level is you don't identify yourself with the things you need to do, actions.3rd is you don't identify yourself with the thoughts.


The conclusion is all yours, but there is little to go on for readers at the DhO. It's all experiences you called this and that term without giving phenomenological descriptions which is the norm here at the DhO. Could you give some more details into what you are calling '3 paths'. How does one practice each of what you are calling 'path'?

4th just is making the conclusion what it is to be satcitananda/god consciousness+bliss and let it happen. I have no idea what else than this could be the 4th path arahant.


Can you provide links to where 'satcitananda/god consciousness etc' is the same as what you are calling '4th poath arahant'.

you will get it fast by figuring out how to apply sushumna and force kundalini to 7th chakra- to head. When you can do apply the sushumna then possible at least within a year, disciplined meditation and contemplation and reading as much as you can(about self/who you are). from waking up to falling asleep.
Every time you stuck then ask help from inside. There is Lord who is watching you and already knowing every your move in advance and protecting you. Trust him.


Can you provide an in depth description of 'applying sushumna' and 'forcing kundlini to the 7th chakra'? Who is this 'lord' watching over 'you'?

I generally call bullshit on people's claims when there is an absence or avoidance of detailed phenomenological descriptions and just high terms attached to supposed experiences. I hope you can provide such things. I think it best to avoid allowing yogis at the DhO blindly accepting someone's unproven authority based on very little. You have assigned high terms for this and that experience. How do we know you are talking about the same thing as other yogis here? We don't yet.

Sincerely

Nick

RE: Making it clearer
Answer
7/16/13 9:56 PM as a reply to Banned For waht?.
Rist Ei:


Everything is exactly the same, and rather it feels like someone else has done it not me. Also the feeling that someone has said it already.
Maybe i am deluded. Maybe mind can replicate everything.


Yes, maybe. Although Kenneth Folk assigns a lot of meaning to the "feeling of being done", others may not. I don't think Daniel's criteria for 4th path gives such meaning to that 'feeling'. There are other criteria that he talks of. Please answer the questions above.

Nick

RE: Making it clearer
Answer
7/17/13 7:33 AM as a reply to Nikolai ..
"What is a 'fruition' in your own words. Describe it phenomenologically please."

lying on my back on my bed, i am aware, i hold my self aware, it rather is a bringing myself aware,
then there is an event of mind starting to enter somewhere feeling, feels like losing the mind. Long time i tried to deepen it go with it, investigate it. It gave satisfactory feeling what faded pretty quick, i guessed then that it is entrance to myself, so i wanted to induce it more and go with it but the event was always the same no matter what i did.

i didn't know what it is. I read from book about fruitition and path moment. Letting go of the rope, fire goes out, going to the other side of the shore.
To me it is like bursting the bubble. Like some kind of release.

I tell that i don't have my words, all words are learned. We experience something and there is words invented for it and the words are learnt from others.

After effects faded in minutes or even faster if i remember correctly. The side effect from meditation itself was shadowing it all and also my desire to experience it all at one sit clouded all.

i have a guess what fruition is. It is a Nirodha(cessation of everything(mind)) between two thoughts of mind. The meditation method Vippassana is for keeping us awake. If you can keep yourself awake by yourself without any method then you don't have to use method. If we are aware normally then actually we rest on something but we need to bring ourselves constantly(renew ourselves to stay awake).
By luck then if we manage to stay aware enough, it happens.

That means fruition is an event what I witness how my mind is destroyed. It feels good.

"Can you provide a link to this practice please."

I got the method by insight, by asking help inside. I learned to do it correctly, with best efficacy. I felt that the energies started to grow, the ability to induce more power grows literally everyday.

i didn't have the words to explain it what it is, so i gave my best to describe it and put the describtion to google searched and i ended at the end to a page "https://sites.google.com/site/swamiramateachings/swami-rama-sushumna"

i read it, there talked about opening the central channel, balancing ida and pingala. I discovered already before that i could make my breath from one nose and then change it and also balance.

for additional material according to taoism this is a union of dragon and tiger. Applying sushumna is imho same to taoism alchemy inner breathing(when you google "inner breathing" you end up with bs knowledge, its not it), what started from heels. And exactly that it felt when you do it. Its very powerful and they don't lie about this. Its about bringing prenatal energies to the channels and will purify them, if there is a block then it cause some kind of effect, like involuntary muscle movements and more.

"What changed after what you are calling '2nd path'? What was the perceptual baseline like? What is absent? What has arisen? What seems different?"

I noticed immediately after the release(fruition), power. First time encountered the hissssing sound what seemed to go deeper when holding it but i scared of, i remember that even next day i started to fall somewhere feeling with the hissing sound.
The perceptual field was "pumping back and forth(if i remember correctly)" i got up and everything normal again- was high on meditation energies all the time, can't tell the difference.

I didn't notice nothing absent or any change fundamentally, only thinking more about the event what it was. Mood rise coming from the progress i make.

Please answer the same questions as above for what you are calling '3rd path'.

exactly the same but more powerful, the field what was "pumping". Don't remember exactly. Redish brownish sky where i was in. I remember i could hold the wave and go with it but i didn't hold. I was on that sky for some time then i ended it.

Ok i now remember the going in too. Awareness meets with the thing what he is holding and lets go of it. And exactly same thing with the 2nd path but with 3rd path its obvious and clear.

it also written in the book MCTB too. Was really happy when reading this.

The same thing(but opposite) is with the Nirvikalpa samadhi but instead of letting go, there will arise the "neutral thing" i will grab it.

What is the experience of 'nirodha samapatti' in your own words?

darkness with awareness. Was first impression. Now i have also some knowledge/ideas what it was. External energies: there is ovum and there is sperm. Ovum is waiting in a pure matter, then comes a sperm with the codes and impregnates the ovum.

Nirodha samaphatti is awareness of prenatal energies, there is nothing else. Then rises thought and your mind will born. Conscious death and birth in inner level.

What literally ends the story. It should answer every question about the paths. Nirodha sapaphatti is a end to it.

Any links where it says this nirvikalpa samaphatti is the same as 8th jhana? Also please provide a phenomenological desctiption of what you are calling the '8th jhana'.

i need to back off with this one, i don't make any difference. i clear my mind 5th jhana, i start forcing myself(applying sushumna) 6th jhana, then there is some kind of change to more clear i take it as 7th and then nothingness rises i grab it, its 8th. I am watching while it happens i wait till the nothingness appears.

i have read things about jhanas and samadhis, i haven't mastered them. Nor i haven't tried four first jhanas at all.

8th jhana is you hold the nothingness, i still see the "vibrations"(things what is hitting it), but if i hold my awareness more on that thing perception started to go dark and disappear so i quit again.

i have sometimes doubts that i have experienced 8th jhana..

What is 'nirvana' in your own experience phenomenoligically? Please give a detailed description of what you are calling 'nirvana'.

nirvana for me is a state where i am being aware. It is being in the present moment not dependent on mind. Imho mind ends.
What i then experience is pure energies, they are rising from down and flowing to brain massasing it what feels good.

where you 'catching the self feeling' while in what you are calling 'nirvana'?

self feeling what makes you. Nirvana is not a state where you are freezed or solid, i will give up the thought in mind and immediately energies start to flow and these energies are self energies you can make it stronger by your own will.
I can live inside me. I can think. You can do anything without taking it as object then technically it is possible to be in nirvana all the time when awake.

What do you mean by 'nothingness'? As in the 7th jhana experience?

nothingness is a thing what appears while i do my practice.

This is all still happening while in what you are calling 'nirvana'?

in my own terms yes, because i am not grabbing(clinging) to anything till nothingness arises then i grab or cling to nothingness. It(nothingness) is the fruit and i saw it and reaped it.

Please give a description of what you mean by 'knot'. How did it resolve phenomenologically?

knot is a word what i adopted from Daniels book. Also have seen it elsewhere basically in the same subject but there is described it knot as all the path moments. "http://swamij.com/kundalini-awakening-5.htm"

resolving the knot means that i see that i hold idea in mind and i give it up, by myself. It just disappears.
This act represents probably my free will that i now started to serve Lord again.

The conclusion is all yours, but there is little to go on for readers at the DhO. It's all experiences you called this and that term without giving phenomenological descriptions which is the norm here at the DhO. Could you give some more details into what you are calling '3 paths'. How does one practice each of what you are calling 'path'?

no i can't. Do you want to know the circles and vibrations context?
I know there is different feelings while sitting everything changes. I don't know.
I have followed the circles step by step and trying to identify where i am. What i concluded is it is watching your progress in slow motion. I meditated 6 hours and i ended up in a field where there where only same lights vibrating in same speed, everything was the same, i didn't noticed anything else, even not a body.

Can you provide an in depth description of 'applying sushumna' and 'forcing kundlini to the 7th chakra'? Who is this 'lord' watching over 'you'?


if you google about applying sushumna you will get little to no information. It's self energies and that's all. You will figure out what makes you feel real. What makes you feel that you exist.
Applying sushumna is balancing left and right channel to become aware of middle channel and then you can force your self energies through it.

Lord is the one who created us. We are the ones who decided to abandon him and experience life our own, so he created material(mind) worlds. I wrote about this on the other post in this web.

I generally call bullshit on people's claims when there is an absence or avoidance of detailed phenomenological descriptions and just high terms attached to supposed experiences. I hope you can provide such things. I think it best to avoid allowing yogis at the DhO blindly accepting someone's unproven authority based on very little. You have assigned high terms for this and that experience. How do we know you are talking about the same thing as other yogis here? We don't yet.

I gave up watching phenomena, i can't do it, i need to build attitude to watch and concentrate on things and that is slow level way of doing things. What i try to do is to be myself.

i understand suffering, impermanence and no self. But i understand why i need to keep track of the phenomena.

i gave a description.

in two words nirvana and making myself more real, bringing myself nearer to the phenomenal world.

what effects it will produce: lots of pressure in the head, involuntary muscle movements. These things happen because of new energy entering the system.

i know that vippassana is about watching phenomena how they are interacting with mind. I have read around 30 books about mindfulness and vippassana. Honestly i don't remember anything much. All i wanted to know how to be mindful and where i am with my progress. Real usage of the knowledge from books are that you know you are on a path, and know to avoid every effect.

I contemplated on self constantly, trying to figure it out. I discovered that understanding is one thing and it applies to everything, every time i did progress my understanding switched to new and that new switched to new and the progress is still going on.
Understanding is prana wisdom, that what i am cultivating. That it caused to burst three bubbles is only a start for something else.

i leave myself an ability to correct the mistakes. I claim that it is possible to do it in a year to a level of no identification with three modes of nature(mind). If preliminary work isn't included. With a "method" of finding yourself and leading yourself higher.

RE: Making it clearer
Answer
7/18/13 1:30 PM as a reply to Banned For waht?.
I apology of my bad arrogant wording and boasting.

It is one of the many ways to do it. It serves me the best with my inner desire, personality and understanding. Everyone finds their own at the end.

Thank you for reading!

RE: Making it clearer
Answer
7/20/13 7:24 AM as a reply to Banned For waht?.
samadhi and jhana

http://www.kktanhp.com/spiritual_practices.htm

1) The Hindu equivalent here is Salvikalpa Samadhi where one’s Self-awareness must be maintained by dint of effort. As long as Self-awareness is held on with effort, one is with realty. When Self-attention wavers, Self-awareness is obscured. The possible equivalent of concentration meditation to Salvikalpa Samadhi is up to the 2nd Jhana (absorption)
.
2) Kevala nirvikalpa samadhi. In this state there is no body-consciousness, and there is a temporary awareness of Self or Presence without effort. As the individual is like a block of wood, the senses and the body are not functioning. This is a temporary erasure of the ego, and is the penultimate stage before enlightenment. Once out of meditation, the ego returns. That means he cannot hold on to realty or Presence permanently. This stage is equivalent to the 3rd to the 8th. Jhana.

3) Sahaja nirvikalpa samadhi. Sahaja means ‘natural’ and nirvikalpa means ‘no differences’. He is now an enlightened psychosomatic organism (jnani). Having destroyed the ego permanently, he sees no difference between himself and others and the rest of the world. He can function normally in the world with only the working mind, as the thinking mind is eliminated. He is now in the world but not of it. He also realises that every manifested thing arises from the Unmanifested. This state cannot be achieved with concentration alone. One must practise a method that will return one to its pure personal consciousness. This Being or Presence can then return to impersonal Consciousness, which is part of the Unmanifested Cosmic Consciousness. This stage can only be reached when there is silence, stillness and emptiness of thoughts. That means another technique must be used, e.g. Insight meditation.


If attain 8th full solid jhana, then investigate that state and then compare it with your regular/ordinary state then see what is the difference between these two states and remove the difference (Its the thing what you are holding all the time).

Imho anagami level is required before, to attain Nirvikalpa samadhi(8th jhana). Self energies led to head.

RE: Making it clearer
Answer
8/21/13 1:52 AM as a reply to Banned For waht?.
Wanted to say that it didn't sticked, i fell back. I know it because i once again removed the block and reached the head area(around 6th chakra i believe) and saw exactly what is to be stuck lower and advance higher. I have done it at least 3-4 times and it haven't been permanent.

Now i know it is possible to go higher by force or by practice but it isn't the end. When reaching higher the mind may not yet sufficently purified to keep new level as base.

Everytime i do this its getting more clear and obvious.

I think the urge to teach comes from the blocks in between throat area and head area. Because when you move to head area then you see that there is no point to teach more than saying to just "stay aware". Lower stages never understands the higher stages. Also it is easy to think oneself to be higher stage when actually being in lower stage because of one can relate to everything, he never understands what is to actually be higher level.

Probably every method works as long when you are aware. By doing it the awarness is getting more refined and it will notice the block.

It gets easier and easier to reach head area. The perception changes instantly. Its not objective change its more like subjective change just like getting wiser and more mature or something like that.

RE: Making it clearer
Answer
4/25/14 9:15 AM as a reply to Banned For waht?.
update or correction.

what i now gather is that this was 3rd chakra opening. This is 2nd path not even 3rd.

RE: Making it clearer
Answer
11/18/14 7:39 AM as a reply to Banned For waht?.
this thread is 4,5,6 circle out of 27. there may be more than 27 circles, but at the end can do within week a circle. 27 is bc it is also by using calculation. If one looks back his progress there is three distinct groups and within these groups(specially first one) three groups within with three circles. 3x3x3 from lets say 85 percent of the time will take 18 first circles form these 18 circles last nine is much faster completed than first ones.

RE: Not first path yet
Answer
4/2/15 7:05 AM as a reply to Banned For waht?.
updated the headline of this thread.

The moment i attained that "4th"(check the 1st post) i didn't attained anything. I attained lust and intense craving after conscentrating on the lower body or 1st chakra area, it came possible to do so after that so called "4th".

To this day i still fighting with lust, doubt and identity view what are strong as ever. Discovered to myself 8-fold path, that im following it(two days back got that aha' moment or insight) to enter jhanas.

also i have anger, irritability.

Also i see what i think nirodha samaphatti is but i couldn't enter it.
But i can enter jhanas, these are shortlived but are hard- im in there.
That means im mundane as i am, no supramundane fruits yet.

while im in jhanas i can purify myself from all shorts of things(shadows, mental issues, views, energy etc), things are gone subtle.

RE: Not first path yet
Answer
4/2/15 1:28 PM as a reply to Banned For waht?.
Hey Rist,

I've found I tend to go back and forth between two elements.  If you've done a lot of focus on energy work and concentration, you might be missing the element of effortlessness - or "stepping back" from experience.  Concentration gives a lot of control, so it can seem like the solution on its own when highly concentrated.  What you need to balance it out with is equanimity towards positive things - letting go of the need for pleasure.  When you work on it that way, you start to need less and less effort to find the concentration states, and you can start to see how they're just part of the natual waking state of mind.

It helps to look for the completely ordinary, mundain experience of being alive, and allowing that experience to continue on, even when it seems unpleasant.  Noting can help with this.

RE: Not first path yet
Answer
4/3/15 6:43 AM as a reply to Not Tao.
Not Tao:
Hey Rist,

I've found I tend to go back and forth between two elements.  If you've done a lot of focus on energy work and concentration, you might be missing the element of effortlessness - or "stepping back" from experience.  Concentration gives a lot of control, so it can seem like the solution on its own when highly concentrated.  What you need to balance it out with is equanimity towards positive things - letting go of the need for pleasure.  When you work on it that way, you start to need less and less effort to find the concentration states, and you can start to see how they're just part of the natual waking state of mind.

It helps to look for the completely ordinary, mundain experience of being alive, and allowing that experience to continue on, even when it seems unpleasant.  Noting can help with this.
Hi Not Tao,

i believe what you said mundain ordinary experience of being alive. Its ok.

What concentration is you will first come to what you said "experience of being alive", its now either you notice or not what is afflicting you, that means "to what being in triple realm you are a bitch" and then do you remain to these beings or you will decide to move on.

What i do: i notice where i am and then i figure how i get out of it, for that there needs to become or arise another state- If i get to that state then i purify my remainings or tentacles what still are in my last state, doing this i rebuild my own force, aliveness, life. The experience of being alive is different for me and different for you but the potential is same.

This way triple realm will get more purified the result is i see more things and the workings within these realms. Then at some point arrogance rises then i see that there is very long way and im nowhere, i get a nice wakeup call and i start again searching whats wrong and working my way up from a pit.
Doing this for some time, i realize eventually some good stuff, it itself propells me into new territory but its still triple realm but i still get caught in wrong thinking and therefore suffer.
But overtime now i starting to realize the pattern. This pattern is called dependent origination i believe or just cause and effect.
That means something else also is outside of triple realm what evolves overall. Lowerself and higherself indeed, and from this point i believe in multidimensions, that we are multidimensional beings.

The concentration is, i get out of bigger delusion into a present(lower body/desire realm) where i see something more(from) than my own thinking(formless), nothing else, no effort at all. By the way its not concentration its right mindfulness and from there comes right concentration and from there i can see what is afflicting or causing me to stagnate.
In order to get into right mindfulness there is presteps. Basically i follow 8fold path, i don't need to think about it that im following it all comes effortlessly. Also there is right effort* needed sometimes.

What you wrote is helpful. It remains on my mind and when i contemplate then automatically if needed i see some stuff from that post and i will get to the next state or remove remainings from last state. Tnx!

im on different state i was in yesterday. Two meditation sessions later.

RE: Not first path yet
Answer
4/24/15 7:27 AM as a reply to Not Tao.
got one dark night finished by evading it while on it, just walking away in my mind from dark night and it was gone. And since i postd  here last time i have had several more dark nights. Overall sometimes i can have more than one dark nights per day.
i find now a cure faster than before, but that means i get to the next dark night faster too.

RE: Not first path yet
Answer
4/24/15 7:38 AM as a reply to Banned For waht?.
been reading little bit Nikolai's blog 1st to 4th

there is a quote 

 I was getting these experiences of seeing strobing horizontal lights, the shapes of fluorescent lights about 10 of them parallel to each other blinking in and out, seen through my eyelids, or maybe the mind's eye.


i had this experience too once, prior i aws thinking i had" to the first path i have described in the original post above. Awesome that i see someone having this experience.

I will investigate that blog more..


RE: Not first path yet
Answer
4/26/15 12:11 AM as a reply to Banned For waht?.
hey Rist, really enjoying reading your thoughts, particularly the idea of the paths corresponding to the dan tiens.  what do you think about kenneths idea that third path is the 'integration' of the insights/energy of all the chakras at the third eye?  (with fourth being the same thing but at the crown, and then it sinks down to permanantly rest at the heart)

RE: Not first path yet
Answer
4/26/15 1:06 PM as a reply to Noah.
Il Matto:
hey Rist, really enjoying reading your thoughts, particularly the idea of the paths corresponding to the dan tiens.  what do you think about kenneths idea that third path is the 'integration' of the insights/energy of all the chakras at the third eye?  (with fourth being the same thing but at the crown, and then it sinks down to permanantly rest at the heart)
tnx,
Figuring in process..
Reality is a sphere, all directional.
Lower abdomen is inner cell and head is outer cell. Lower infinitely large. Higher infinitely small.

When you are doing momentary concentration then you are within the sphere and knocking the inner wall of it and at the same time you are outside the sphere holding onepointed awareness focus on the "third eye"(two eyes merged into oneness located in front of you and up, not visible).
While doing it there is a thinker figuring out things. Once tests passed, wisdom gained you can: at some point you are able to link lower and higer by bringing the sphere to front of you where thirdeye is located. Outcome is emptiness realization, new reality.

heart is locationless, emptiness, center. At the third eye you are seeing your own "face" it is without any characters or marks. Getting onepointed concentration to thirdeye, its special, it becomes a circle or sphere, later you will bring the sphere from the throat or heart area. 

--------------------
when you reach one pointed concentration on thirdeye, you will repeat it two times and on third you will do the merge. But the thing is that what merge? there are many more coming and it wasn't a first one either.
--------------------
1)First onepointed concentration on third eye is not becoming or a dragging of sphere. The space in front of you just freezes and space opens up. There is somewhere a description of that concentration, and imho it was thought as a pureland jhana but it is repeatable perhaps only three or two times and then its not anymore repeatable.

2)Second is the space becomes like real space, nothing moves, now just take left and right side together and you will drop in experience.

3)Third onepointed concentration is a circle like sphere, it appears there from below almost by itself. This achievement is more advanged than first, here you focus on that sphere and it starts to engulf you and almost you lose yourself to abyss.

After you complete second you need to willingly initiate third path and it will activate desire energies. Its very intense desire almost unbearing.
And you will fight with that stage long time(not just one day but till you figure out how to get to the next point). 

In this stage the space becomes a sphere what you drag up to the head area from below. Its black and it has also other part(second sphere) behind it.

-----------------------
from this point on it becomes ambiguous, too much details and events.

in 3rd described there is more happening, something hits your head three times in separate cases feeling like something gets sucked out of your body. At fourth you will drag sphere from above the head manually into front of you, three of them in separate cases. Then your field of awarenss will become stabile like in 2nd described but more profound and the drop is different, this time it really is a drop what you will feel falling into your lower abdomen and it causes major rippels in energy.

this done there starts hardships with emotions and bizarre energetic effects. And first attempts on using true willpower(advanged version of "inner breathing" skill unlocked after 2nd), not knowing how to use it you can't get to the next stage. But this done you will know sooner or later what it is and what it was before after first breakthrough was done.

--------------
the skills are definite and will become something more advanged. Momentary concentration becomes inner-breathing type of thing. Onepointed concentration is linking two things together. There are layers or some extra things you notice in you and remove them or some special way you need use skills to get next area.
--------------
can skip reading above.

now to get to the point. 1st path is self identity, you will realize or just see it that you have one not as i have a self but as a wisdom or knowledge it appears to you.
2nd path is desires increasing activates passion lust, hidden emotions starting to surface, irritability, anger
3rd path you realize your self second time but now from emotions point of few, big relief and new outlook.
4th is what i think it is is you see that you are running away(or pulling) from or against things by secretly holding onto a selfcreated view, at somepoint you will see it through and stop doing it.

but we don't exactly know what Buddha meant. thats why he himself needs to tell you about your enlightenment. Like it were done to himself by other Buddha.

Kenneth's ideas are correct i think. But i agree as technical paths but i don't have that much experience in mediation, i can't judge much.

triple realm is eternal.

RE: Not first path yet
Answer
4/26/15 1:20 PM as a reply to Banned For waht?.
Thanks for the response, still sort of processing your ideas of integrating the dan tiens.

RE: Making it clearer
Answer
4/28/15 12:56 PM as a reply to Banned For waht?.
Rist Ei:
wanted to add effects: mental side of it.

when concentrating on the middle of the brain, it will activate pineal gland. Cracking sound is heard and blue light flashes.
first path


Hi Rist Ei,

I would like to back up to this bit, with the pineal gland activating.  This is about where i am and i've had trouble finding useful information on it.  i can feel the pineal doing its thing most of the day if i look for it: as i meditate, as i take the train in to work, as i sit at my desk and write this message.  

It's ok but it's a touch unusual.  It usually feels hot and sometimes pulsating.  sometimes things are brigther and i think to myself, "great, i've become enlightened!" (lol).  I've only barely mentioned this to my wife and nobody else.  I sometimes worry that I've done something wrong to myself (a Chineese friend always warned me i'd go crazy.)

As background, this is my fifth year meditating.  I did a couple Goenka retreats, then Shinzen noting retreat and Jhana retreat after a short metta retreat.  I've got a regular practice that sees me meditate 30min to a couple hours a day.  i just started practising with a retired doctor who's accomplished in Korean Zen and takes in students.

Is it because i've started meditating eyes open?  That's what it seems like. More importantly, what do i do now? 

i appreciate any help,
Alex

RE: Making it clearer
Answer
4/28/15 3:20 PM as a reply to Rednaxela.
If you activated energies. Then you should find the source where these energies are going, these might not be felt so just by using logical thinking mind: know there is energies but just not now you might not feeling them and the way you might expecting them to be is not correct.

When you breath in then at the pause after breathing in try to sense the subtle energies going to the middle of the head. These are very subtle and maybe not felt but there is energies going to the center. Also when you shift awareness between different senses then you should feel that energy moving to the center of the head.

Also your left and right eyes are minus and plus energy, you should be able to join them or connect them into one, its called third eye i think, and the point where they are joined has a place in front of your eyes little bit of up, the junction can be felt.

Follow the currents. Ask "who you are" should also point to that center. Also the trick is to pinpoint these active energies and its unactive source with your whole being. 
--------------------
Long story short. Try be active(sense the subtle movement within awareness where its going) and timelessness(unactive energy).
Try be giving and receiving at the same time. Easy lol.
****But the actual idea is when you join the eyes into one and concentrate on that empty space in front of you it will activate energies and when energies are near its destination you can bring(curve) your awarenss back(by letting go of your subtle clinging) to its source and it causes sudden drop in awarenss.
If you already have activated then your job is to protect energies nonstop, keep gentel awareness on third eye, what i read in your post you are likely already doing it. When sitting then use thinking mind to figure out the whole thing how to make it happen at the same time striking the "Who i am(sense of self)".

to make it more clear then awareness travels its definite route, recognize where your awareness is at now and try to intuit what you need to do.

[this is like the number 8. Upper part is eyes connected to the third eye in forehead area. And 1st chakra and 5th chakra are the bottom part of the eight but to connect these, your third eye towards going energies must be lead back and then can take the whole(your hands/body sides [but you might not yet feel them]) in and drop into the big junction heart, heart itself is extension to the center of the brain, what is the source of everything. Thinking how its done will lead to result but the results can be different to the theory but if it works its fine then, be it even a fairytale.]

There are typical signs encountered.Loud noises, flashes of lights, moon, sun, rotating discs, many orderly balls of lights in one scene. One pointed concetration on third eye(in front of you third eye not center of the head) achievement. Also real lighting can strike you with the thunder noises in your own field of energy or awareness.

RE: Making it clearer
Answer
4/28/15 3:40 PM as a reply to Banned For waht?.
I am very greatful for this assistance.  My teacher assigned me the koan "Who am I?" though i've been mostly working with his teacher's koan: "What am I?", which seems about the same thing-and my teacher seems ok with that.  

Anyway, it sounds like i might be on the right track and i'll try to be open to the energy as you suggest.   i do feel energy shooting down my head from inside my eyes.  I do feel my third eye opening up quite often and recently i've lost the fear that i'm making myself cross-eyed.

thanks for this help.   I've enjoyed reading of your experiences  
Alex

RE: Making it clearer
Answer
4/28/15 4:24 PM as a reply to Banned For waht?.
And sorry, i'm still a bit confused and looking for some clarity.  

On the weekend, i was reflecting on this energy.  How cumbersome it seemed to be at times, how it felt like I'd done something horribly wrong, how i just kind of wish things were like they were before i did any of this (a heretical thought as i love meditating).

Anyway, i was thinking how this kind of energy started on a Jhana retreat in August, and how maybe the only way to rid myself of this energy was to continue the jhana practice as let it play out.  I closed my eyes and after a bit of meditation i could start to feel energy moving through my head, kinda following the nimita.

So i find eyes open zazen very energizing but I'm also drawn to jhana.  Should i choose one of the other?  Or maybe dabble in each?

I appreciate any advice or insight.  But also understand if you think this is too much to ask, that i should just figure this out myself.

best, Alex 

RE: Making it clearer
Answer
4/29/15 5:46 AM as a reply to Rednaxela.
hi,

Any meditation type there is is preliminary,they all end in one point, figure how to get pass this point is actual meditation and after opening you deal with the aftereffects.
I think when you opened pineal gland you are now dealing with the aftereffects and stuck there with clinging to them.

I use eyes open, eyes closed, any position,any thoughts. Whatever helps to blow my mind open and then i clean it as nothing ever happened, kind of starting from zero again.

Scenario:
Mindset is something like: when i see reaction, heh nice it worked, then i move on to what has changed and meditating on it till there is nothing anymore to meditate on. When there is nothing then i need to use special effort or concentration to stir the nothing. Its tedious.

Scenario:
When you don't know what to do then you are stuck, then any doing is in vain till all your doings and ideas are depleted and you are almost giving up entirely(dead end) and then you notice it("the door") and you will then let go consciously into new area. Its suicidal.

Scenario: 
At some point intense lust and sensual craving rises. You do nothing.  Ceaseless discipline.

The best advice is what proves me wrong the fastest. So the advice will be how to destroy your view.

RE: Making it clearer
Answer
4/29/15 8:27 AM as a reply to Banned For waht?.
thanks  for the guidance.  I'm rereading and rereading it, trying to make sure i understand.

My pineal/third eye is still doing its thing.  I'm not trying to cling to these sensations but reminding myself to stay mindful and pay attention to them as i go about my day.  In vain, I remind myself to keep good posture.

if i understand the three scenarios you outline, i can choose anyone, and believe i have already worked with #1 and #3.  i would like to choose the suicidal one but don;t know if i am capable of that kind of surrender.  i have responsibilities (family, job) and mental constructions which may not allow it.  Still, i will explore this.

Incidentally, I picked my chakra/kundalini workbook back up which i've only barely started, getting back into it in the evening train ride home yesterday.  I Hope that helps in some way.

--> thanks again for the suggestions and guidance

RE: Making it clearer
Answer
4/29/15 10:48 AM as a reply to Rednaxela.
You are welcome,

At the end its all about experience only. Its possible to skip most of the mind states but we want to bring them out instead. And they don't come out without proper discipline. Slaying these bad states of mind we gain experience and at some point we get new skills to kill even bigger challenges. Like in games.

RE: Making it clearer
Answer
4/30/15 11:58 AM as a reply to Banned For waht?.
Wow!   I would like to let you know: your advice worked.  The breakthrough last nite was phenomenal. 

Meditating as i put my youngest daughter to sleep, i found the minimal light from the humidifier a good light source to do zazen.  I focused on the feeling in my eyes, as you suggested.  It was definitely not subtle, kinda moving in a wave from my eyes and into my head in a similar energetic way,  As i understood from your suggestions, i just opened up to the sensations and did not try to control them in any way.

i kept it going for a while but, after not much more than half an hour, a whole new way of seeing opened up.  I suddenly realized I was looking at a single picture from further back in my head, and could see out of both eye sockets with a single third eye!  thoughts and tensions completely died.  i stayed there a bit and it felt great.  I wish i'd stayed longer but at the same time, i was not expecting this and was completely bowled over. I closed or did something else to my eyes and, before i knew it, this way of seeing was gone.

I meditated for another 30minutes last nite and then another 30 or so this morning.  But it didnt want to come back so i didnt push my luck.

I am grateful for this.

RE: Making it clearer
Answer
4/30/15 10:01 AM as a reply to Rednaxela.
nice! 

Perhaps you completed 3rd trigram. And now look up what is 4th and what you need to do, hmm now you should initiate movement(or i don't know).
In my case if there isn't anything happening then i somehow trying to induce movement again, by replicating firmness or trying all the variants i know, something will eventually trigger.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagua

Trigram FigureBinary ValueNameTranslation:Wilhelm[5]Image in Nature (pp.l-li)Direction(p. 269)Family Relationship(p. 274)Body Part(p. 274)Attribute (p. 273)Stage/ State (pp.l-li)Animal(p. 273)
1111
qián
the Creative, Forceheaven, sky
northwestfatherheadstrongcreative
horse
2110
duì
the Joyous, Openlake
westthird daughtermouthpleasuretranquil (complete devotion)
sheep, goat
3101
the Clinging, Radiancefire
southsecond daughtereyelight-giving, dependenceclinging, clarity, adaptable
pheasant
4100
zhèn
the Arousing, Shakethunder
eastfirst sonfootinciting movementinitiative
dragon
5011
xùn
the Gentle, Groundwind
southeastfirst daughterthighpenetratinggentle entrance
fowl
6010
kǎn
the Abysmal, Gorgewater
northsecond soneardangerousin-motion
pig
7001
gèn
Keeping Still, Boundmountain
northeastthird sonhandresting, stand-stillcompletion
wolf, dog
8000
kūn
the Receptive, Fieldearth
southwestmotherbellydevoted, yieldingreceptive
cow


RE: Making it clearer
Answer
4/30/15 10:04 AM as a reply to Banned For waht?.
also will copy it to addition to previous post. This stuff is awesome. I should have looked into it more long time ago.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagua


King Wen "Later Heaven"[edit]

King Wen "Later Heaven" bagua arrangement


卦名
Name

自然
Nature

季节
Season

性情
Personality

家族
Family

方位
Direction

意義
Meaning

 Li火 FireSummerClinging中女 Middle Daughter南 SouthRapid movement, radiance, the sun.
 Kun地 EarthSummerReceptive母 Mother西南 SouthwestReceptive energy, that which yields.
 Dui澤 LakeAutumnJoyous少女 Youngest Daughter西 WestJoy, satisfaction, stagnation.
 Qian天 HeavenAutumnCreative父 Father西北 NorthwestExpansive energy, the sky.
 Kan水 WaterWinterAbysmal中男 Middle Son北 NorthDanger, rapid rivers, the abyss, the moon.
 Gen山 MountainWinterStill少男 Youngest Son東北 NortheastStillness, immovability.
 Zhen雷 ThunderSpringArousing長男 Eldest Son東 EastExcitation, revolution, division.
 Xun風 WindSpringGentle長女 Eldest Daughter東南 SoutheastGentle penetration, flexibility.


RE: Making it clearer
Answer
4/30/15 11:37 AM as a reply to Banned For waht?.
thanks for this dharma brother!

i know nothing of Taoism and expect it'd take me a while to get up to speed on this.  In terms of my pratice, I'm not looking for any new experiences but will stay open. my third eye is still on fire, and as i walk about i have feelings throughout my face/head.  So i dont think this has played itself out.  So i expect to return to the same quiet one-eyed, mind-opened state i was in last nite: It felt like satori or kensho, whatever that is supposed to feel like.  I will keep reading of your experience and posting anything interesting that comes up ...

best, Alex

RE: Making it clearer
Answer
4/30/15 11:44 AM as a reply to Rednaxela.
Are you worried about that you canceled your experience half way before it finished? don't worry about it.
Before you can return to this experience again there is other openings on the way, opened similar way as you did it yesterday.

cheers

RE: Making it clearer
Answer
4/30/15 12:11 PM as a reply to Banned For waht?.
there is a possibility that i did something wrong by not staying more calm and abiding.  But I feel like it will open up again.  i won't force my way in.  i didnt force my way in last nite, it just kinda appeared.  it felt like such a quiet, serene place.  All the tensions in my head and legs disappeared.  All discursive thought vanished.  It felt like a much more natural place to be.  

Anyway, thanks for checking in and all the support on this.  I will stay open.  I'm visiting my Zen master tonight.  Finding good meditations late at nite

in my five years of practice, i've never looked much into energy practices but finding they have something to offer.


Best, Alex 

RE: Making it clearer
Answer
5/1/15 8:52 AM as a reply to Rednaxela.
heard the pineal pop twice last nite, meditating at Zen master's house.  But nothing followed

soon after, I meditated to put my older daughter to sleep.  i focused in on the nice green light identical to my younger daughter's humidifier.  i was starting to feel my third eye opening when my i heard my wife urgerntly calling.  so i went downstairs and helped her with her resume.  Never got back to the green light meditation

Felt compelled to let let you know of any progress.  Perhaps i should start my own thread on this but, on the other hand, feel there is little interesting to report.  i will definitely post it here If anything evenly slightly earth shattering comes up . 

spoke to my zen teacher this morning.  He says not to pay too much attention to these things, that they come up from time to time.

best,Alex

RE: Making it clearer
Answer
5/2/15 5:55 AM as a reply to Rednaxela.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_matter



I think: the perception knot can be untangled when liquid has become gaseous. Suffering is felt when liquid is becoming into gas and gas becoming into liquid. Plasma is pleasureable, liquidic electical waves, impulses, surges in brain or elsewhere in body.
Solid becomes liquid- yearning is felt or liquid is becoming solid when you follow and fullfill yearning/desires.

for anything what helps to expand possibilities, imagination, explanations, giving a picture etc..results some change what contributes into bigger change.

RE: Making it clearer
Answer
5/4/15 9:53 AM as a reply to Banned For waht?.
interestingly, as i meditated Saturday nite, i felt like i was wearing an electric mosquito net, a very quiet and empty feeling that i've rarely had for 15yrs and first remember as i sat in a accupunture chair with needles in me (i was not a meditator then).  Later, my face became like molten lava, full of pulsations and oozings.

i saw your post on Saturday but rarely post on the weekend as dhO is difficult to view/post on an iPhone.

anyway, i thought it was interesting that you'd have a sense of what i'd be going through.  More molten lava again in the early morning today, and able to reconnect to it at work.  But definitely no breakthroughs.

Thanks for the insight, for unbeleivably guessing what i'd be experiencing, and for keeping the conversation going.

Best, Alex

RE: Making it clearer
Answer
5/18/15 8:14 AM as a reply to Rednaxela.
Part somewhere in the middle of process:

When i meditate then i just try to see what is the issue. If i feel bored then i try to win it by meditating on that feeling. When i sense craving then i meditate on it. Meanwhile knowledges arises i then look whats there, key and door coordinates are there.

In different bodyparts are energies felt, but at first there is nothing felt. All big experiences are at the beginning but no energies movement felt because these channels are not yet opened up enough at the beginning. Energy movements are same as ordinary movements but path related movements are energysized/subtle.
If food moves down, you can send energies there if relevant channel is opened enough. If enough times sent down then you can feel expansion experience in 1st chakra area. Then can send energies pass that expansion point to the legs..

Awareness field causes intense craving, it is looking his self. If these two merged then craving goes away. 

boredom, lazyness path version is self awareness
lust, craving path version is awareness field
if these two are ready to merge its same as rut. Brain, morality will go grazy. When these two merge morality, right behaviour returns.

boredom is cultivated first then comes/appears lust, craving. Merge is done by sensing world through your awareness field, the connection is felt. If channels are opened enough then also its felt that awareness moves to the head after merge, after that suffering starts, specially induced by other people, noises etc what seemingly doesn't give you free desired space. Suffering is overcome by realizing self second time in your awareness field..

At first there is nothing. If cultivated boredom(it comes later, maybe after years of succesful practice) you sit till you can't sit anymore mentally but still decide to sit. If you have choice to have fun or start tedious meditation practice you will need to choose tedious practice. These little things determine how fast you evolve.

boredom,lazyness times it feels like you have lost your meditation and everything else, life is pointless etc. It can cause suffering, with tears(thats how bad it is)..

also there is bumps felt in stomach..kind of important sign later.