To retreat or not to retreat. That is the question.

Bobby Anspach, modified 10 Years ago at 10/4/13 12:44 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 10/4/13 12:44 PM

To retreat or not to retreat. That is the question.

Posts: 11 Join Date: 9/22/13 Recent Posts
Hello world,
I am currently signed up for part two of the three month retreat at IMS and am leaning towards not going for a number of reasons but I wanted to get some other opinions as I am very hesitant to turn away the opportunity.

Here's why I should go:
I have been practicing for years, I sit for four hours a day, and still no stream entry as far as I know. I want to wake up. It is probably the most important thing to me at this point in my life. I just read the MCTB bit about integrating, and I have no insight to integrate. I make art and teach yoga (which includes meditation) and both would be much more informed if I had a direct experience of insight rather than what I currently have... So it seems like everything should go on hold until at least hit first path. Also, I would be sitting with some teachers that I have a lot of respect for. Lastly, it starts on 10/22, a number combination that has been brought to my attention in some interesting universe aligning kind of ways a couple of times in the last few months.

Here's why I shouldn't go:
I think I am in and out of EQ righ now so it might happen without retreat.
I went on the three month the last two years, recently spent a couple months at the forest refuge, and am going back to the FR in May and will be there for two and a half months.
I kind of feel like I would get on retreat and realize the timing is off... That I am meant to be in the world right now... Perhaps to make art and help others.
I just got a job teaching yoga and told them that I wouldn't do long retreat until next may.... Though the class is small and might get cut soon anyway. Certainly, going would not help the furthering of my yoga teaching career as I would not be picking up any new classes on retreat.
I committed to help a friend with a kickstarter and he wants to do it in November, so if I go I would have to get him to change his plans or I would not be available to help as I said I would (though I never committed to a specific date and he would likely be okay with changing the timing).
I am already on a tight budget.
Lastly, I would miss thanksgiving with family which is what I have don't the last two years and I thing they are happy that I would finally be around for it... Though I would be there at Christmas anyway.

The decision is not yet made but the sooner I let them know the better. Any guidance or related experience would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you for taking the time to read all this.
Have a present day.

Bobby
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Daniel M Ingram, modified 10 Years ago at 10/5/13 3:37 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 10/5/13 3:37 PM

RE: To retreat or not to retreat. That is the question.

Posts: 3268 Join Date: 4/20/09 Recent Posts
Hmmmm...

Those decisions are very rarely easy, as you know.

I wondered: how did the first two three month retreats go? How did the FR sit go? What did you do? How did you practice? With that much momentum, if practice was strong, one would expect that many would make great progress if they really went for it. What happened?

What were you planning to do practice-wise on the 6 week?

What do you do when you practice 4 hours/day? What happens? Who are you studying with, if anyone? Do you have strong co-adventurers on the dharma path, friends who have deeper insight, that sort of thing? Who do you talk with about practice?

How much time will the kick-starter and yoga teaching take each week?

How much time would you possibly have for practice each day if you didn't go on the retreat and kept up your other commitments?

What are you doing in January? Could you go back to the Forest Refuge then? If not, and you are committed to yoga until May, do you have time in May to go back? Considered Asia, where things can be a lot cheaper for long-term sits, and the mushroom culture is somewhat less prevalent if you go to certain centers? Thought about Panditarama Lumbini?

Anyway, those are the questions that come to mind.
Bobby Anspach, modified 10 Years ago at 10/6/13 10:35 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 10/6/13 10:35 AM

RE: To retreat or not to retreat. That is the question.

Posts: 11 Join Date: 9/22/13 Recent Posts
Hey Daniel,
thank you for taking the time to reply,
Daniel M.:

I wondered: how did the first two three month retreats go? How did the FR sit go? What did you do? How did you practice? With that much momentum, if practice was strong, one would expect that many would make great progress if they really went for it. What happened?

The first ten days of the first three month was probably the best practice I have ever had. I sat, noted well, did minimal walking in between as needed and little else. Needed only a few hours sleep a night and was very enthusiastic about practice. At this time I was also doing a sort of eye gazing technique that I won't share the details of because it spun out my practice big time, though it led to powerful concentration and resolve. After ten or so days, I had an insanely powerful a and p I believe which involved some extremely intense terror and bliss that came coupled together. Sitting with the terror, it increased and eventually led to the experience of hearing a voice that knew stuff I did not know but later confirmed to be true. From here I spun out in thoughts which I shall spare though my big idea became very enticing as it involved the possibility for a sort of short cut to very deep levels of insight. I became very unbalanced and went between hiding from practice and striving in various ways.

The second three month, I slowly let go of my need to add my shortcut to practice and I felt the relief of letting go of it completely at times. Sometimes the thought would come and go. This was big though I didn't think so at the time. I felt like I could have been more productive on this retreat.

At the FR I had to leave twice in the middle to visit my dying grandpa and then again for his funeral. It was good practice for integration and I found I settled in quickly with each return, more or less. I saw things arising and passing seeing tiny vibrations. There was a joy and a lightness that came regarding my big issue though I still toyed with it a bit.

A recent ten day, I practiced intensely, barely did the eye thing, and felt like a path moment was very close. I gained a great deal of faith in the practice without my needing to speed things up with the eye thing.

i have since discovered that the eye thing is used by some fairly deeply realized Tibetan teachers... I would be interested to hear if you know about it... Clearly it is still enticing to some degree, and it may come in handy later on the path, but for now, letting it go leads to more balanced practice and certainly more sanity.

Daniel M. Ingram:

What were you planning to do practice-wise on the 6 week?

Practice every moment with no eye thing and get stream entry at the least.

Daniel M. Ingram:

What do you do when you practice 4 hours/day? What happens? Who are you studying with, if anyone? Do you have strong co-adventurers on the dharma path, friends who have deeper insight, that sort of thing? Who do you talk with about practice?

I sit and note, I notice thoghts come and go, though sometimes I get lost for a bit. I notice the discomfort of this and usually resolve to note a bit more. Sometimes the noting gets too hard and I soften. I am currently playing with the intensity and frequency of the noting as the right amount seems to change within a sitting. Sometimes it feels right to just let noting go completely and receive everything when there is more concentration and ease. There is often calm and sometimes a relieving experience of spaciousness. Recently I have experienced a number of muscle spasms where if feels like my body naturally reacts to prevent an impulse of energy from continuing. Sometimes there is a noticing of many fine changing sensations which leads to bliss and then thoughts of expectation etc.. for a bit I had what, I believe, Kenneth Folk said you refer to as a near miss, fairly frequently. Around this time there was great joy and contentment on and off the cussion and a decreased desire to have something happen. I think I was meditating more than four hours a day then. I might have been doing more noting then as well.

I had two sessions with Kenneth but I have realized that I can't really afford to pay for a teacher right now though I would love to have one. Preferably one who has hit second or third path and all the Jhanas and has some experience teaching them. Perhaps I am being too picky considering I would prefer for it to be on a donation basis.

I have a small number of friends on the path that I talk with. None of them have hit first path.
Daniel M. Ingram:

How much time will the kick-starter and yoga teaching take each week?

Kick starter will not take much time at all. A number of hours at the start and then an hour at the absolute max a day, but probably much less. Yoga teaching takes about six hours once a week plus I have to keep up my own practice to teach it.

Daniel M. Ingram:

How much time would you possibly have for practice each day if you didn't go on the retreat and kept up your other commitments?

I could probably make time to do five or six hours max if I were very skillful about it. More would be possible but it would involve abandoning some of the moral obligations I have to others and to myself. I have to make some art each day or I will be blowing the chance of having that part of my life unfold as it is perhaps meant to. I could also manage a few solo retreats at my own place lasting up to six days.
Daniel M. Ingram:

What are you doing in January? Could you go back to the Forest Refuge then? If not, and you are committed to yoga until May, do you have time in May to go back? Considered Asia, where things can be a lot cheaper for long-term sits, and the mushroom culture is somewhat less prevalent if you go to certain centers? Thought about Panditarama Lumbini?

I could go to the FR in January or December even... December would be less time though. The yoga obligation goes till May so any FR time before then would have to be scheduled around a holiday or something... I'm sure thirteen days would be possible somewhere in there.
I am signed up for two and a half months starting in may. I will sit for a month and a half with Sayadaw U Vivekananda and then a month the Bhante Khippapanno.
I have considered Asia, I applied to Panditarama in Burma a little over a year ago but never got the letter back and I took it as a sign and just did the three month again. I applied to go for an indefinite period of time when I did apply.

Once again, thank you very much for all of your time, this site has certainly been inspiring for my practice.

Sincerely,
Bobby Anspach
William Finch, modified 10 Years ago at 10/6/13 2:32 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 10/6/13 2:32 PM

RE: To retreat or not to retreat. That is the question.

Posts: 8 Join Date: 6/21/11 Recent Posts
Bobby: I sent you a private message. I have taught a little on the side, and am not interested unassuming a teacher role, but if you would like we could Skype and talk about what worked for me while moving through the paths.

Bill

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