Hey there fellow Dharma friends. I usually just think about these questions obsessively in my head, but I figured it would be better to put it out in the open and see your thoughts on this. I
So today I did my usual 1 hour and half morning meditation. I was doing the noting practice, probably noting around 2 to 3 notes per second. There were a few times when there began to be stillness and quiet and it felt myself almost dropping into this spaciousness. The feeling of "about to get somewhere" kindof happening. At this point as usual I have a great urge to drop the noting because usually if I do at this point I come to a very peaceful place of spacious awareness feeling and hearing it all and there seems to be some peace. But then I usually get lost in thought about it. However I noted "wanting" and continued noting sensations and the wanting to go into that space. And it seemed as usual because I didn't drop it, I wasnt able to drop into that soft place. So I wonder is this continuted noting preventing me from "getting somewhere" and should I be exploring at that point of concentration more of that spacious soft place by dropping noting." I wonder at that point am I preventing myself from going deeper by noting? Or am I just fooling myself and just seeking peace and joy by dropping noting and should just note the want to go there? I like the noting because Its very hard for me to get lost in stories at least for very long and I see that it helps me concentrate and have continuity of mindfulness. But one thing I have noticed is that after continued noting for about 45 minutes or an hour if I drop it and I just feel the sensations and hear the sounds and just be with it all, I notice the thinking process more clearly. Thoughts arising, not getting caught in them and then they vanish. If I continue noting it is hard for me to see this process for some reason. Its almost as if there isn't enough space. Does anyone have any experience with these concerns? Does anyone have any insight on navigating this? What do you think is skillful for me to try? I can give you more details if needed. I look forward to hearing your thoughts. Thank you.
Ben

Have you tried a sort of hybrid approach? when you get to that point, just relax and be with the totality of experience, but when you start to think about it rather than just be aware of it you could note 'thinking' and see if that helps to let go again. If not, you could start up the regular noting again. Just an experiment.

Also, have you taken a look at the sticky thread about the hierarchy of vipassana practice? It has some good pointers for different phases of the process.

Disclaimer: I've never been much of a 'noter', more of a noticer. So ymmv with my advice since you are using a technique I don't have much inclination to.

Hey Jake
Thanks for the response. Just checked the the hierarchy of vipassana practice, good information. Im not sure how well Im seeing into the 3 characteristics yet. Maybe I just expect it needs to be a big deal. I mean I sit there watching the changing nature of sensations...tingling, pulsing, hearing, burning, heat, cold, itchy sensations etc and the changing states of the mind...anxiety, joy, peace, striving, wanting and craving, equanimity, tired, frustrated and so on...So I sit watching it all changing. I can see at some level of course that these things are not who I am. I can also see that these things are constantly changing and don't last. And I notice that striving for anything at all causes suffering and holding onto any sensations/mind state causes suffering. Is this the kind of thing Daniel is talking about at stage 6 when it might be appropiate do drop noting and just feel it all? Or is he talking about a much deeper level? I definitely am not at a point where Im seeing the beginning and end of every specific sensation.
Also I have tried letting go of noting when my concentration has built and began noting thinking very lightly in the past and it seemed to work pretty well. I havent experimented with it that much. I will experiment some more. Look forward to hearing more of what you think.
Ben

This is because you're running out of notes.

Here's what you do when you get stuck:

Kenneth Folk - How to deal with uncertainty

Keep noting but include more. Include "progress", "thinking", "equanimity", "soft place", "attention","analysis", "strategizing", "worry", "doubt", "questioning", "intention" (especially before an action), "imagining", "interest", "desire", "meditating", "fear", "disgust", "misery", "sadness", "anger", "aversion", . Basically anything you can note you don't have to cling to. The practice is about non-clinging. To try and "get somewhere" in meditation is a stumbling block we all find ourselves in. Keep noting through the roadblocks. Practice with the 4 foundations of mindfulness. There's tons of things you can note. It's easy to get stuck making a "conceptual noter-self" but there's more detail all the way up to vibrations. Keep zooming into what you think is a "you" and you won't find anything permanent.

As Jake mentions there are pitfalls with noting if it's too conceptual:

Gil Fronsdal - Noting

Thanks for the response. This was helpful. I will try these tips next sit.

Hello Ben, I am really interested to know whether you had some progress. I happen to experience exactly the same thing during my meditation. My mind is not fast enough to note at high rates 1-5/sec and I run out of notes and fall into stillness.
I tried going through a list of vocab words for noting and worked a bit on my concentration but still no sucess. I guess I am still missing something.

thanks.
George

fastest noting is not noting at all, just staying in the present(logical!). I think you and the thread starter having fruitions.

while sitting, mind calms and lets go, its exactly at first the feeling of sinking into somewhere etc. Later levels its more clear that mind lets go of what its holding, also doors get clear.
while doing random daily stuff, sometimes reality kicks in, thats fruition also.

if i ever think about sitting i get fruition. So if i want to get conscentration then i take mind as object at will.

advice for next level:
Emptiness is not empty. Its impossible to tell what is it but it is experiencable but not experienceable with conventional terms.
It can be forced, but there is not "it" its whole. Forcing wholeness, nothing is excluded. Thats the way to seccond level fast.

The 'sinking into something' experience could occur at other stages in my experience. Dont be too hasty to tag an experience as 'fruition'. The exit experience from a nirodha non- experience (cessation) is not the fruition itself in my current take on it, but the exit experience, which is an experience itself which sheds light on what has not arisen yet.

I would experiment with dropping noting for some moments or slowing them down to once per 10 seconds just to be honest with what is arising in themoment.
Nick

Edited

i agree. my mistake.

Hey George its hard to say if Ive had success. Ive just continued noting sometimes pretty fast 1 note or more per second and then Ive been noting wanting when I want to let go and go into a spacious space or "go deeper." Sometimes Ive been slowing down the noting. I am going to start experimenting with slowing it down to 1 note per 10 seconds as Nick suggested to keep myself honest and make sure Im really experiencing it all. Ive been trying to note at a pace that feels natural and it seems to alternate throughout a sit. Ill let you know if I discover anything knew
Ben

I will try the slower noting at more points in my sits, this sounds like a helpful suggestion Nick. Also sometimes when I slow it down it is easier to observe the thoughts form and disappear more easily than rapid noting. Have you noticed this as well?

Indeed, though it might be different for others. Best way is to experiment and see if it results in the development of equanimity (specific neutrality) and discernment / insight, which is essenitally the same thing. If it doesnt try another way. If it does, keep dojng it nonstop.

Nick

Thanks Ben. Tried experimeting with Nick's advice on slow noting and things are better so far. This what I was doing in the past, but then I had this idea that to progress, I need to note really fast so I was trying to push. I will keep on trying and will let you know if a breakthrough happens..

Thanks that makes sense.
Ben