The Three Forms of Suffering

Edward Gray, modified 13 Years ago at 5/3/10 1:05 AM
Created 13 Years ago at 5/3/10 1:05 AM

The Three Forms of Suffering

Post: 1 Join Date: 5/3/10 Recent Posts
Hi everyone,

This is my first post, and I'm really excited to have found this community. I've read MCTB a few times now, and I've been browsing over the contents of this forum for a while. I'm amazed by the commitment so many people here are showing to genuine practice and non-dogmatic exploration. You are all awesome.

So here are my questions.

MCTB describes the second form of suffering as "being limited to our ordinary state of consciousness, with our only way out coming from sleep or the use of chemical substances. We yearn for bliss that is not so bound up in things like whether or not we get a good job, for experiences like those found in the concentration states. Our minds have this potential, and the failure to be able to access these states at times when doing so would be helpful and healthy is a source of bondage"

My confusion on this point comes from the fact that I find the second form of suffering defined as "the suffering of change" in other sources. How exactly does mastering the concentration states help with the suffering that comes from impermanence?

MCTB goes on to describe the third form of suffering as what "comes from making artificial dualities out of non-dual sensations, and all of the unnecessary reactivity, misperceptions, distortions of perspective and proportion, and basic blindness that accompanies that process."

I have a hard time understanding how this relates to other definitions of the third form of suffering the dissatisfaction and insufficiency that comes from conditioned existence, or from being a psycho-physical aggregate. So how, when you define the third form of suffering in this way, does it specifically relate to the third training?

Thanks in advance everybody.
Paul Follows, modified 12 Years ago at 11/25/11 6:00 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 11/25/11 6:00 PM

RE: The Three Forms of Suffering

Posts: 3 Join Date: 11/25/11 Recent Posts
Hi Edward and everyone else. This is my first post on this site so hopefully I'll get the mechanics of it right. If not please let me know.

My background is from studying, practising and teaching Tibetan Buddhist. That's my reference point.

I'm not sure that I understand your questions, hopefully my comments will help.

If we want to attain permanent freedom from suffering firstly we need to be able to know the full extent of the situation ie what's the problem then decide that it's worth finding a solution.
The 3 types of suffering getting increasing difficult to understand and witness are:
1) Manifest Suffering - Being hit on the head...ouch!
2) Changing Suffering - Perceiving reduction in suffering as pleasure and then developing craving for that experience to be repeated.
3) Pervasive Suffering - A bit too deep for me at this time but basically stemming from ignorance that misunderstands the true nature of existence.

"The suffering of change" relates to 2) above. I think the confusion comes from switching the words around. Changing Suffering v Suffering of Change.
As suffering diminishes we experience it as pleasure (or at least relief) thus it is very deceptive and leads to attachment to these kinds of "pleasures." This binds us to ignorance and suffering. There is a lot in this subject and plenty of meditations on it. The phrase "suffering of change" suggests a link to impermanence which clearly there is but the main thrust is that daily pleasures are in fact simply reductions in greater sufferings "changing suffering". eg taking shoes off after a long walk feels great simply because there was aching involved. Simply taking shoes off from rested feet doesn't induce the reduction in suffering ie pleasure.

Without Buddhas teaching on Changing Suffering and it explained correctly very few of us would ever understand that these everyday pleasures are actually suffering. Without that understanding it's much harder to see our predicament and want to sort it out fully and finally.

On a personal note I've observed this "Changing Suffering" within myself lots and meditated on it on many occasions. Just witnessing and understanding it in everyday life leads to an understanding that external objects can't deliver what they appear to promise.

Re. your second question I'm not sure I understand this well enough myself to answer. Good luck with getting your questions answered and I hope that my comments help in some way.

All the best,

Paul
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Daniel M Ingram, modified 12 Years ago at 11/26/11 5:10 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 11/26/11 5:10 AM

RE: The Three Forms of Suffering

Posts: 3268 Join Date: 4/20/09 Recent Posts
The ways I define suffering there are to correlate with the Three Trainings and their various ways of helping eliminate suffering in its various forms, and is not designed to line up with any other of the various lists out there, of which there are many.

Hopefully it will be helpful in that specific context.

I am glad you are getting something out of MCTB.

Daniel