A little help here?!

Chad Corradini, modified 7 Years ago.

A little help here?!

Posts: 3 Join Date: 12/2/13 Recent Posts
My first Satori/Stream Entry came on October 2011 at the Vipassana Center in Kelseyville, CA, Goenka instructing. this was my second Vipassana. I had two experiences, one each on days 6 and 8 of a 10 day retreat.

I just finished my Third Vipassana on Sunday 12/1/13. I experienced Stream Entry on day 7 of the retreat and confirmed my experience with the instructor.

What followed was multiple SE on every subsequent sit, in between, standing, sitting, lying. I have experienced SE after breaking silence yesterday and today, each and every time I have sat. I stopped documenting the experiences at 10 on the second day they began. I would estimate I am now approaching 30.

The last few days feels like a 6 months have passed.

Initially when drawn into SE it felt like being sucked through a straw at my 3rd eye. I shook/trembled intensely, my lips were drawn back off my teeth (imagine a monkey being shot into space) and as the sense doors closed I was aware I was not breathing due to a felt sense of tightness t/o the torso. Since, I have experimented with focusing my observation of sensation on different areas of the body and have been able to initiate SE at those areas (muscles contracting and shaking), but there is always the darkening of the sense of vision behind the eyes, the growing roar before silence, and the shaking/trembling t/o the body, the awareness I am unable to breathe, and always the intense sensation of being sucked through a straw at the 3rd eye before loosing the sense of self. I come out of each experience with a shuddering intake of breath and it is clear that I have not taken a breath while out of my awareness.

My question in this:
Is there a skillful practice I can begin that will ease the sense of convulsing and that will allow breathing?
If not, does it subside in time?
I asked the instructor at the retreat about this after only a couple experiences and he told me that when an organism has an awakening to new potential to experience such an event there is no telling how the energy in the body will react. I did not get the sense that he had personal experience with the consistent repetition I was experiencing (although for all I know this is always the case, but I did not get that sense from Dan's book) and personally knew of only one person who would, hence the question to Dan or one of his senior Posse.

As a body worker, movement therapist, yoga instructor, and functional personal trainer there are few who inhabit their physical body as fully as I do. I can say with certainty that it is not for a lack of stretching/flexibility, hydrating, circulation that this is occurring. After the 10 day sit my body is and has been since the occurrences began in a state of high equanimity/pain free. It is also not a cramping, but a felt sense of contraction and trembling.

Thank you so much, and I honor your practice.

With Metta,
Chad
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sawfoot _, modified 7 Years ago.

RE: A little help here?!

Posts: 507 Join Date: 3/11/13 Recent Posts
Sounds a bit like an A&P experience to me (as it has some similarities to mine).

Ignoring the confirmation of the teacher, why do you call this repeated experience stream entry? I think normally in these circles "stream entry" is something that happens just once. So what led up to it and followed that makes you think it was stream entry? Aside from that, what else is different?

It doesn't sound very fun being intensely sucked through a straw. I am not clear if you are having these experiences off cushion without trying, but you do describe deliberately inducing it, so maybe you shouldn't - as what good is it doing you? Does it have any relevance to your off cushion every day life?
Chad Corradini, modified 7 Years ago.

RE: A little help here?!

Posts: 3 Join Date: 12/2/13 Recent Posts
Maybe Satori is a better word than SE if SE happens just once? Definitely not "inducing" it. The experience is occurring both on and off the cushion when I observe the experience of my sensate reality and quiet the mind. I was referring to focusing on the sensations in different parts of body which then would begin the experience at that part of the body away from the 6th Chakra. Definitely not A&P. It is not unpleasant but extremely intense, hence the question regarding skillful practice.
With Metta
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Dream Walker, modified 7 Years ago.

RE: A little help here?!

Posts: 1333 Join Date: 1/18/12 Recent Posts
Chad Corradini:
the consistent repetition I was experiencing (although for all I know this is always the case, but I did not get that sense from Dan's book)

I would refer you to MCTB - Review
"In this stage, the meditator just keeps practicing largely as before. In this way, they will learn to master the stages of insight, as they must pass through them again each time they wish to re-attain Fruition. The first few times through the cycle after the path has been obtained can sometimes be quite intense and even very disturbing"

I would recommend rereading the book in it's entirety. I have done so and still find it very useful if nothing more than to keep my vocabulary fresh.

Good luck,
~D
Chuck Kasmire, modified 7 Years ago.

RE: A little help here?!

Posts: 559 Join Date: 8/22/09 Recent Posts
Hi Chad,

Yes, I know that one - though I did not go through it a bucket of times as you describe.

Is there a skillful practice I can begin that will ease the sense of convulsing and that will allow breathing?


You mean "Is there a way for my consciousness to be sucked out through a straw in a pleasant way?" - I remember describing it as getting sucked out through the neck of a bottle - which is allot bigger than a straw - so some visualization might help :-) I think things will calm down. This process seems to know what it needs to do. When it happens try to relax into it - to release into it.

"If not, does it subside in time?"

Yes, that was my experience. I was doing quite a bit of chi gong at the time. You might try that - some whole body energy stuff to get the energy channels opened up and flowing nicely - if you aren't already. Progressive relaxation as well. You can trust this thing though it can get a little sketchy at times.
Chad Corradini, modified 7 Years ago.

RE: A little help here?!

Posts: 3 Join Date: 12/2/13 Recent Posts
It has become the size of a bottle neck (from a straw) since my initial post, the tissue contractions have become less intense, and breathing is now also possible. Thank you all for weighing in. Re-reading the pertinent section of MCTB helped! Difficult to appreciate until one is there. I honor your practices, thank you all.
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Dream Walker, modified 7 Years ago.

RE: A little help here?!

Posts: 1333 Join Date: 1/18/12 Recent Posts
The intensity wears off and the whole honeymoon fades in about a month to a month and a half. Have fun and use this time wisely.
Good luck
~D
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Ian And, modified 7 Years ago.

RE: A little help here?!

Posts: 782 Join Date: 8/22/09 Recent Posts
Hello Chad,

Welcome to the DhO.
Chad Corradini:

My question in this:
Is there a skillful practice I can begin that will ease the sense of convulsing and that will allow breathing?
If not, does it subside in time?

I asked the instructor at the retreat about this after only a couple experiences and he told me that when an organism has an awakening to new potential to experience such an event there is no telling how the energy in the body will react. I did not get the sense that he had personal experience with the consistent repetition I was experiencing (although for all I know this is always the case, but I did not get that sense from Dan's book) and personally knew of only one person who would, hence the question to Dan or one of his senior Posse.

While I am not one of Dan's senior Posse, I am a senior meditator (33 years), and so have some experience with meditation and some of the phenomena that one can fall subject to experience.

While this may not help much, what I can say about the experience you have described is that in all my 33 years of meditation, I've never experienced anything like what you described. (Thank goodness.) I've experienced other phenomena, but not this particular one. So that rules out your suspicion that such experiences are typical in the practice.

That said, I will offer the following as perhaps it may help you to begin making some sense of your experience. Without more information about you – like how old you are, how long you have been practicing mediation and other details – its difficult to say why you are experiencing this, beyond some kind of subconscious event that is triggering them to occur.

Most of the weird experiences that occurred in my own practice tended to occur during the first few years of my practice. Most were based upon a kind of pre-hypnotic suggestibility or expectation from the instruction I received at the time. Sometimes these may have been entered (experienced by triggering of the instruction) consciously, and other times subconsciously.

Chad Corradini:

As a body worker, movement therapist, yoga instructor, and functional personal trainer there are few who inhabit their physical body as fully as I do. I can say with certainty that it is not for a lack of stretching/flexibility, hydrating, circulation that this is occurring. After the 10 day sit my body is and has been since the occurrences began in a state of high equanimity/pain free. It is also not a cramping, but a felt sense of contraction and trembling.

This practice (as a body worker etc.) may have something to do with the way you have experienced (and continue to experience) this phenomenon. Although without additional questions of you about these practices, one cannot be certain.

As to what you can do about it, pay close attention to the breath and the gradual subsiding of the breath as you practice a samatha (mental calming) meditation with the intent to become enveloped within the calmness as the breath become more and more shallow. Follow the seesaw (in / out) action of the breath as it subsides. If it completely subsides, follow the calming aspect of the experience. The whole point of samatha meditation techniques is to calm the mind and body down, not the opposite. A lot has to do with the intention that you take into the meditation sit. Take a bit of time before you begin your session and give yourself instruction that you will not experience these wild fluctuations and that it will proceed smoothly and tranquilly and see how that works.

Best of luck to you with this.

In peace,
Ian