Message Boards Message Boards

Dharma Diagnostic Clinic, aka "What was that?"

Direct Transmission - A Greased Lightening Path?

Toggle
Direct Transmission of the State of Enlightenment – Greased Lightening Path?
Bare with me on this post. It’s rather lengthy and has a number of sources all connected together to make a point.

I met a Lay-Buddhist one time a while back, became friends with him, and had an intense transmission from his Consciousness which awoke mine. Others too have gained this from him, but I could never figure out the mechanics & never further questioned it, until the last few months.

It was basically, like as if he had a Halo of Consciousness surrounding his head, like you see in the pictures of the Saints, and it was like the center of Consciousness was a candle flame. His close proximity to me, (he whispered into my ear to ask something), basically lit up the center of my Consciousness and also created the Halo effect in me, which lasted for weeks on end.

I lost contact with the fellow, and since I had to go back to work/mundane life, I did not tend/kindle this inner flame, and so it eventually died out. Eventually, a year later by happenstance, bumped into him again and explained it all too him, but he did not know how he did any of it, but did tell me the candle is always lit in the center of his consciousness, though not always strongly. So I asked if I can meditate with him, and it happened AGAIN, and again a few weeks later due to work and a busy life, I again lost the state, but this time gained something invaluable: The Center of Awareness is one step away to the Nondual/Oneness state. How do I know? Because I experienced it (though saying there was an “I” to experience “it” sounds like such a paradox in retrospect). Again, I lost contact with the fellow and began to study more and ask questions about this direct transmission by contacting several Buddhist monasteries, monks, centers, etc…but the most common answer I would is as follows: (Note, these are some actual answer quoted below)

“this kind of transmission does exist in Buddhism (there were people saying that it doesn't), however, there's no way I could tell you whether it was real or that you need to see a doctor. Unfortunately. I don't know a sect that even thinks this is possible anymore, only that it occurred in the past within certain lineages that are long gone.”

Another:
“It's probably more your mind doing all that, than your friend's. Those kinds of experiences can be inspiring. It's a glimpse of the vastness of reality. Sounds like you have been doing a lot of exploring. Keep exploring!”
And another:
“You've become attached to the sensation. Practice non-attachment. Enjoy your journey.”
None of them helped in any of their replies, but one person did mention something called “Dharma Transmission”, so I jumped on the wiki page description for it, and looky looky what I find:

Dharm Transmission Wiki Link
“According to Borup the emphasis on 'mind to mind transmission' is a form of esoteric transmission, in which "the tradition and the enlightened mind is transmitted face to face". Metaphorically this can be described as the transmission of a flame from one candle to another candle, or the transmission from one vein to another. In exoteric transmission the requirement is "direct access to the teaching through a personal discovery of one's self. This type of transmission and identification is symbolized by the discovery of a shining lantern, or a mirror.”

BOOM!!!! That’s It!!!!! Spot On!!!!! Exactly how I experienced it, like “a flame from one candle to another candle”.

Doing some more research, I stumbled upon a poster on taobums forums who described exactly to a “T” what I have experienced and since formulated from this experience:

Username: vajrahridaya on thetaobums forums posted as follows:
“I feel that it's the "light" of awareness illuminating unconscious potential. For instance when a saint with deep awareness, a person who has illumined their own unconscious and made it conscious comes in contact with another person, they are able to connect to another on that level they have illumined within them self. If they have the ability to control the wattage of that powerful awareness, they can awaken through this light of awareness the hidden, unconscious potential in another person, thus "shaktipat." Basically, they illumine your closet and through penetrative awareness they take you there as well as your awareness follows that space made by them within you, starting your process and so all those hidden karmas start coming to the surface. Of course to be receptive to this as well takes some cracks in your own karmic shell that are congruently connected with the particular saint you come into contact with, otherwise... you won't experience the saint's saintliness or your own in their presence. You might even experience all your negativity hit you in the face and you might even blame the saint for it.”
Again, he got it figured out and broke it down to an exact way of how I had experienced it.

___________________________________________
Now here’s the kicker. When I sit with a few close friends and start to break down the mechanics of all this, we both simultaneously fall into this Nondual state for seconds at a time or glimpses, only to sort of climb back out of it again and say “whoa!!!! That was it!!!!”

So eventually, through mutual friends, one guy who has some interest in all this found about these breakthroughs I was having with a small handful of people and wanted to speak with me about it. So I met with him, we sat for 3 hours breaking down all of this, and somewhere around the three hour mark there was a point where I felt myself on the precipice of falling into this Nondual state, and I sort of intuitively linked with his intuition like I had with my others friends all those other times, and he dropped into to it as well……only he never came back out.

He described it as an explosion of Light and bliss and space in the center of his being, that he is no more, that there is no more center. The fellow has since cut all ties from all his family, friends, quit his job, and last I heard has been in solitude and wandering forests for the last 3 years, which is the last time anyone has heard from him!!!!!
So all this Enlightenment business, seems to have a Greased Lightning Path to it. Someone who’s deeply established in the Center of Consciousness, can transmit this state, and this state is one step away from the Nondual No-Self state. And in other situations, simply discussing it with others with a right attitude, view, perspective is enough to trigger the initial awakening.

And here are all these paths, lineages, and other traditions talking about decades worth of climbing up ladder rungs, detachment, insight, etc. All these major Buddhist traditions which think that the Esoteric Dharma Transmission has been snuffed out, many who think religiously that there is no such thing!!!!!

Please do add any insight you may have to this as I would highly appreciate anything anyone has to add.

RE: Direct Transmission - A Greased Lightening Path?
Answer
12/18/13 6:50 AM as a reply to IAMTHAT That Ami.
Sympathetic Resonance, basically two tuning forks fixed on a wooden block, play one dampen it, and the other will be heard playing same frequency. Same with two guitars in a room, so as with laws of causes and conditions, so should two humans in proximity have Sympathetic Resonance, which is why Metta and Equanimity seems to spread to others and the reverse is true that anger and agitation can also spread. I have heard say also that distance is no object with Metta and Shaktipat.

This whole phenomenon you brought up makes for very wide implications and possibilities, and thanks for sharing.

Peace Metta

B

RE: Direct Transmission - A Greased Lightening Path?
Answer
12/18/13 7:35 AM as a reply to IAMTHAT That Ami.
transmission probably allows to skip the part of "activating the source energies". That means one can skip stages of insights and get initiated without working for it.
When you found these energies, forget 16 stages of insights because you are beyond that phase then. And can enter nibbana immediately without previous work.
You also don't need master any jhanas to discover that state.

So it is yes, to your claim that you don't need to practice countless hours and can get initial enlightenment in a moment.

RE: Direct Transmission - A Greased Lightening Path?
Answer
12/18/13 9:44 AM as a reply to IAMTHAT That Ami.
Hi IAMTHAT.

Direct transmission is an aspect of transmission, or consensus as a whole that evidently works amazingly well on some people.

If you yourself are interested in this sort of approach I have heard really good things about Vortex Healing - http://vortexhealing.org/

They call non-dual awareness (aka something a bit like a version of MCTB 4th path awakening), the Core Veil and they have special courses you can do, in which they energy transmit (zap you) in awakeness. Sounds far out, but I have met 2 people from there who have both 'done' core veil and are in full time "non-dual states", their states are something like what what would be described on Soh/Thusness blog as the I AM EVERYTHING or maybe Stage 4 realisation.
The stages model of Soh/Thusness: http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.co.uk/2007/03/thusnesss-six-stages-of-experience.html

I guess for me the interesting questions are who does it work well on, and why? Why not others?

My personal way of understanding it: Enlightenment in the non-dual awareness sense, is basically about dropping a false belief. Say you have a guy who was sexually abused by a schoolteacher when he was 6, he may now as an adult carry odd beliefs, which are sensation-emotion-thought patterns which lead to unusual behaviour, e.g. he may subconsciously continuously underperform at work in order to get the authority figures to treat him poorly, or act in self-defeating ways in relationships.

The belief is self is similar. Since a young age, certain sets of sensations, feelings and thoughts get wrapped up in a bundle of self-referential patterns, a bit like a computer program stuck in a loop, that causes a belief in a self at the centre of our experience.

Now, a therapist cannot just explain this to the abused adult guy in 10 mins, and have the guy go, "OK right, I get it! So it wasn't my fault! I'll change all those behaviours now." He has to continually, over years of therapy, show this guy his patterns, bit by bit, maybe trace them to their source, and steadily the patterns dissolve under the light of both their awarenesses. It will take them years of trust, and they will go through some dark nights. Eventually this guy sees through his false belief patterns.
This is the equivalent of meditation or self-inquiry.

Or as happens in Good Will Hunting, due to the intense trust, kinship (the therapist reveals he was also abused by his dad), and power in the Matt Damon-Robin Williams relationship, something just cracks. Robin Williams says "it's not your fault" a few times, and this cracks open the entire belief structure of Matt Damon's abusive father conditioning. Bosh.
The "It's not your fault" scene from Good Will Hunting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92D15qtI_Gk
This is Direct Transmission.

Both are just methods of undoing belief. And for both, trust and faith are key. So for someone who is a very rational, scientific person, they will be able to line up a lot of their psyche with the models and theories of MCTB, noting, and it will be a really good way of undoing, aka awakening.

For someone who really has strong strong belief and faith in Masters and teachers, or someone who is really all about person-to-person connection, then direct transmission, satsang etc, will be great for them.

In reality, for most people, mixture of both is required. I think there are many MCTB inspired practitioners who could advance a lot faster if they worked on the belief/trust/faith side of their practice. Some I have met seem to belief that their awakening will be about technique, not faith in any way (when really they are 2 sides of the same coin). And also lots of less technical types satsang bunny types who could really benefit from some kind of vipassana to sharpen up their perception and seeing skills.

I also wonder, is faster necessarily better?

Given the conditions of our times, maybe having people spend months just eating 2 little meals a day and doing nothing apart from walking and sitting, and generally being monkish, eliminating desires to go to fancy restaurants or buy plane tickets or have families, is quite a good thing? Does it matter if someone takes 2 months or 5 years to awaken?

Another way of putting it - how valuable is a system which teaches awakening well but doesn't give someone a good developmental framework to practice and live before or after awakening? I am not sure on this, just musing.

thanks for listening emoticon

IAMTHAT That Ami:
Direct Transmission of the State of Enlightenment – Greased Lightening Path?

He described it as an explosion of Light and bliss and space in the center of his being, that he is no more, that there is no more center. The fellow has since cut all ties from all his family, friends, quit his job, and last I heard has been in solitude and wandering forests for the last 3 years, which is the last time anyone has heard from him!!!!!
So all this Enlightenment business, seems to have a Greased Lightning Path to it. Someone who’s deeply established in the Center of Consciousness, can transmit this state, and this state is one step away from the Nondual No-Self state. And in other situations, simply discussing it with others with a right attitude, view, perspective is enough to trigger the initial awakening.

And here are all these paths, lineages, and other traditions talking about decades worth of climbing up ladder rungs, detachment, insight, etc. All these major Buddhist traditions which think that the Esoteric Dharma Transmission has been snuffed out, many who think religiously that there is no such thing!!!!!

Please do add any insight you may have to this as I would highly appreciate anything anyone has to add.

RE: Direct Transmission - A Greased Lightening Path?
Answer
12/18/13 1:40 PM as a reply to Sadalsuud Beta Aquarii.
transmission probably allows to skip the part of "activating the source energies". That means one can skip stages of insights and get initiated without working for it.

Yes!!!! Exactly how it felt. After this transmission, Being in the Center of Awareness is like being in Grand Central Station of who you are. Everything is seen outside of you including the false beliefs, ego-psychological structures, even the body itself. It is most definitely a short cut, as this Center of Awareness provides a permanent (if you can stabilize it) platform on which to detach from all A&P phenomenon.

When you found these energies, forget 16 stages of insights because you are beyond that phase then. And can enter nibbana immediately without previous work.

There were still insights coming in at light speed, almost impossible to keep up with albeit in retrospect the intellect comes in with its slow mechanical ways and begins to piece everything together. In my case, this is literally years later that everything now slowly starting to make sense and a map can be drawn. However you were right in that the next step from the Center of Awareness, is a vertical drop down into a No-I boundary-less state. It's Instant...just add surrender/letting go and then BOOM!!!!

You also don't need master any jhanas to discover that state.

The fellow I got the transmission from, I never viewed as a master. Just a friend, equal, another seeker. I was completely neutral on the idea of whether or not this kind of transmission as possible, and it just sort of happened, to a handful of others as well.
____________________
Hey Sadalsuud,
I guess for me the interesting questions are who does it work well on, and why? Why not others?

Yes, this I'm still trying to figure out myself. There are so many different factors to consider such as karmic ties, receptivity, physiology, level of unconsciousness in a person from 1-100...speaking of that.....

...I have a friend who is somewhat awakened on the totem pole who has a theory that a large portion of the population are basically physical unconscious-soulless zombies. That's why zombie movies are so popular in the collective consciousness because most people know, on a subconscious level, they too are zombified. He says most of these end being the hard-lined skeptics and those who live their entirety under the pulls of the lower base animal natures. That's "HIS" theory tho.

My personal way of understanding it: Enlightenment in the non-dual awareness sense, is basically about dropping a false belief. Say you have a guy who was sexually abused by a schoolteacher when he was 6, he may now as an adult carry odd beliefs, which are sensation-emotion-thought patterns which lead to unusual behaviour, e.g. he may subconsciously continuously underperform at work in order to get the authority figures to treat him poorly, or act in self-defeating ways in relationships.


In my case, the transmission was like a shift from unconscious belief system, to fully awakened and aware and seeing everything as "Not-Me"...though the Not-Me part took a few weeks to establish. Eventually I lost that crystal clear clarity, gained it back by another transmission from this same fellow, and this time kept the state much longer, added surrender/Letting go, and literally felt like a drop of water falling into, and merging with, and infinite Ocean.

For someone who really has strong strong belief and faith in Masters and teachers, or someone who is really all about person-to-person connection, then direct transmission, satsang etc, will be great for them.

This was not the case for me. I believed it was hard-core self work in solitude via a number of methods of insight and stripping away that would result in Enlightenment. This completely took me by surprise, a bit of serendipity & happenstance.

In reality, for most people, mixture of both is required. I think there are many MCTB inspired practitioners who could advance a lot faster if they worked on the belief/trust/faith side of their practice. Some I have met seem to belief that their awakening will be about technique, not faith in any way (when really they are 2 sides of the same coin). And also lots of less technical types satsang bunny types who could really benefit from some kind of vipassana to sharpen up their perception and seeing skills.

Yes Faith is HUGE I agree.....but I believe its more of an agreement with the Consciousness & subconscious that you will work on, & get, Enlightenment eventually. That way the multi-dimensional aspect of a person all comes together and in agreement

I also wonder, is faster necessarily better?

No, not necessarily. The one fellow who got permanent awakening when I sat with him for 3 hours, left everything and is now looking for monasteries and solitude. Most won't consider that a balanced life. For me, it took years to finally establish what happened and also found lack of balance because I too neglected the rest of life to figure all this out....though in a sense its worth the risk/sacrifice and I'm still figuring out more everyday.

But I think if you consider the "Western Mind" which wants what it wants "Now".....then perhaps for some this is perfect. Although I've also come to learn that in some Orthodox Churches, there are a few priests who specialize in bringing people out of the Unborn Absolute state, after they drop permanently in it via a number of methods, and are completely not ready to be functional in such a state.

Another way of putting it - how valuable is a system which teaches awakening well but doesn't give someone a good developmental framework to practice and live before or after awakening? I am not sure on this, just musing.

I agree. But then look at Mahasi Style Noting. Technically you can be completed within 30-60 days. That seems a fast path too, but not as fast as direct transmission or a 3 hour talk.

I do agree a developmental foundation fo some sort does wonders. I know people who have awakened a bit, but not full on, who have tricked themselves into believing there is no right/wrong (since they are both illusions) so anything is possible & allowable including cheating on your spouse, heavy drunkenness, etc.

In my case, via a number of slow progressive awakenings, I've had Love, bliss, compassion highly established in me, and then add selflessness as part of the absolute state, and you get that as the baseline for all acts.

By the way, will be checking out the links you sent. Awesome talk. Thanks everyone for contributing so far. I think I'm finally getting somewhere with all of this

RE: Direct Transmission - A Greased Lightening Path?
Answer
12/18/13 4:47 PM as a reply to IAMTHAT That Ami.
Is this the type of thing you are talking about I am that. They are videos of Papaji, a beautiful ad vaita teacher bringing some students to stream entry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWwe8HzUJu8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0neOfF483cY

RE: Direct Transmission - A Greased Lightening Path?
Answer
12/19/13 12:54 PM as a reply to Bailey ..
J .:
Is this the type of thing you are talking about I am that. They are videos of Papaji, a beautiful ad vaita teacher bringing some students to stream entry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWwe8HzUJu8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0neOfF483cY


Yes pretty much just like that!!!!

It's said Mahasi Noting can bring you there in 30 days...this is instant.....what did it take each of them, roughly 7-10 minutes to "get it"?

Well that transmission is the quickest route, grace, transmission, so simple.....

RE: Direct Transmission - A Greased Lightening Path?
Answer
12/19/13 5:44 PM as a reply to IAMTHAT That Ami.
those are some beautiful awakenings but let's not get too carried away... some of those seekers that awaken in satsang have been seeking, doing "Who Am I" for years and years, or building their "faith" for years...

Also, there is a lot of value in doing vipassana anyway, in terms of learning to deal with your stuff, emotional responses, etc.

I think I did MCTB stream entry after 2-3 years of "seeking" then finding mctb and doing 30 days of relaxed self-semi retreat.
I would much rather have done it this way than be zapped awake. 30 days of getting familiar with the path of insight, learning concentration states, learning vipassana, learning about how to motivate myself... the stuff I learned in that month was incredibly valuable life stuff, and a lot of fun to boot.

Also, if you are into this stuff, I think Direct Pointing is interesting too. Some Directing pointing guys like Fred Davis claim to have a very good rate of waking people up in 1 hr interviews, but then, a lot of the clients have long seeking histories too.

Also, just to note, what you said about faith as "aligning subconscious and conscious mind" yes that is exactly what I mean, you said it very well. Basically as soon as someone does this, really turns all of their subconscious to the conscious mind's goal of awakening, then awakening is basically in the bag I think. Trouble is that subconscious is pretty big and hard to access! (or totally non-existent, depending on which way you look at it) emoticon


IAMTHAT That Ami:
J .:
Is this the type of thing you are talking about I am that. They are videos of Papaji, a beautiful ad vaita teacher bringing some students to stream entry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWwe8HzUJu8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0neOfF483cY


Yes pretty much just like that!!!!

It's said Mahasi Noting can bring you there in 30 days...this is instant.....what did it take each of them, roughly 7-10 minutes to "get it"?

Well that transmission is the quickest route, grace, transmission, so simple.....