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1/21/14 1:54 PM
Hi everyone,

I've seen other threads on this topic in other places on this forum, but unfortunately they veered off- topic at some point. It's about relating to people who aren't into this stuff, or who haven't waded into some of the deeper waters. The best way I can think of to raise the topic is through the allegory of Hank's Ass. (Note to anyone who would be put off by an irreverent attitude towards organized religion, please stop reading here.)

http://www.jhuger.com/kissing-hanks-ass

I'm finding it hard to talk to people in my Real Life about what I'm going through. I end up feeling the need to hide. Otherwise, I'd be saying things like, "I got the million dollars, and didn't even have to leave town! Except there's no me, and no Hank, just the million dollars! Except that I think I'm still only part way there, and Hank only gave me a thousand dollars. And I got the shit kicked out of me on the way there." There's some possibility people just wouldn't relate. emoticon

This isn't causing me major problems, yet. But it's going to get increasingly tricky if the money I've gotten from Hank so far doesn't evaporate. I don't want to become like the people going around knocking on people's doors telling them to kiss Hank's ass. Those kinds of people are really annoying. It's near- impossible to discuss this stuff in direct ways even with the people I'm closest to. How do the rest of you deal with knowing that others Just Wouldn't Understand about something that's very important to you? Maybe once Hank gives you enough money you stop caring about such things. But I'm not there yet.

RE: Hiding
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1/21/14 4:48 PM as a reply to Corinne Carter.
Find an online forum....wink

RE: Hiding
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1/21/14 11:06 PM as a reply to Corinne Carter.
Corinne Carter:
Hi everyone,

I've seen other threads on this topic in other places on this forum, but unfortunately they veered off- topic at some point. It's about relating to people who aren't into this stuff, or who haven't waded into some of the deeper waters. The best way I can think of to raise the topic is through the allegory of Hank's Ass. (Note to anyone who would be put off by an irreverent attitude towards organized religion, please stop reading here.)

http://www.jhuger.com/kissing-hanks-ass

I'm finding it hard to talk to people in my Real Life about what I'm going through. I end up feeling the need to hide. Otherwise, I'd be saying things like, "I got the million dollars, and didn't even have to leave town! Except there's no me, and no Hank, just the million dollars! Except that I think I'm still only part way there, and Hank only gave me a thousand dollars. And I got the shit kicked out of me on the way there." There's some possibility people just wouldn't relate. emoticon

This isn't causing me major problems, yet. But it's going to get increasingly tricky if the money I've gotten from Hank so far doesn't evaporate. I don't want to become like the people going around knocking on people's doors telling them to kiss Hank's ass. Those kinds of people are really annoying. It's near- impossible to discuss this stuff in direct ways even with the people I'm closest to. How do the rest of you deal with knowing that others Just Wouldn't Understand about something that's very important to you? Maybe once Hank gives you enough money you stop caring about such things. But I'm not there yet.


Thanks for linking to that site! I'd read it once before and forgot about it. Hank's Ass is hilarious.

I'm not really sure you can compare meditation to that, though. Christianity is completely absurd, but there's nothing inherently fantastic or supernatural about brain changes caused by meditation. Can't you just phrase it as "I've been meditating a lot and feel differently about things" or something? I'm an atheist and materialist, and I don't see anything particularly unbelievable about the process of insight. It's just brain development.

Most people are never going to be interested in reaching enlightenment; that's just a fact.

RE: Hiding
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1/22/14 5:44 AM as a reply to Corinne Carter.
hi Corinne,
yeah, not everyone is into this stuff and so if you feel its necessary or helpful to relate your experiences to someone you need to split the world up into different camps and to develop strategies for each one.

as suggested, forums like this one allow such questions to be asked and most here will relate to the sometimes strange experiences you might be having.

for the 'secular' world of compassionate friends you may want to talk about this stuff as 'self-therapy' and talk about the repercussions of the therapy on your psyche as opposed to dumping a pile of dogma on them.

for those close to you who don't have the same drive and psychology as yourself, allow yourself to be vulnerable and to let them know that what you are doing is not always a smooth ride and ask for their understanding even when they don't understand.

as for yourself. ask yourself what you are accomplishing by telling someone about this stuff. are you evangelizing? are you trying to excuse your less than admirable behaviour? are you just seeking comfort?

whatever it is make sure you know why you want people to know what you want to talk about and know also that if someone is not ready to understand this stuff you won't make them ready with a harangue.

i hope that this doesn't come across too harsh. it could be that i am projecting, or missing the point entirely but i am speaking as someone who has alienated good people for reasons which now seem silly and egotistic.

bon chance

tom

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1/22/14 1:25 PM as a reply to Corinne Carter.
Meditation is "in" these days, so most people will think you're doing some sort of MBSR. Everyone approves of reducing stress. Beyond that, be reassured that you could hit the million dollar jackpot and no one would ever know. In the meantime, save your deeper discussions for your forum mates (as suggested).

I made the mistake of trying to come out to some people at my local sangha and got hosed by a lot of ridicule and indifference. That was a couple of years ago, when I was feeling like hot stuff. I found out the hard way that no one wants to hear about it. Daniel has a chapter in MCTB on this very phenomenon.

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1/22/14 3:39 PM as a reply to tom moylan.
good points, on a similar note I have found the following on the topic of right speech useful:

The criteria for deciding what is worth saying

[1] "In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be unfactual, untrue, unbeneficial (or: not connected with the goal), unendearing & disagreeable to others, he does not say them.

[2] "In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, unbeneficial, unendearing & disagreeable to others, he does not say them.

[3] "In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, beneficial, but unendearing & disagreeable to others, he has a sense of the proper time for saying them.

[4] "In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be unfactual, untrue, unbeneficial, but endearing & agreeable to others, he does not say them.

[5] "In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, unbeneficial, but endearing & agreeable to others, he does not say them.

[6] "In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, beneficial, and endearing & agreeable to others, he has a sense of the proper time for saying them. Why is that? Because the Tathagata has sympathy for living beings."

— MN 58

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca4/samma-vaca/index.html
[emphasis mine]

RE: Hiding
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1/22/14 5:48 PM as a reply to Jane Laurel Carrington.
Jane Laurel Carrington:
Meditation is "in" these days, so most people will think you're doing some sort of MBSR. Everyone approves of reducing stress. Beyond that, be reassured that you could hit the million dollar jackpot and no one would ever know. In the meantime, save your deeper discussions for your forum mates (as suggested).

I made the mistake of trying to come out to some people at my local sangha and got hosed by a lot of ridicule and indifference. That was a couple of years ago, when I was feeling like hot stuff. I found out the hard way that no one wants to hear about it. Daniel has a chapter in MCTB on this very phenomenon.


Wow, I'm really curious about that. It's hard to imagine that people at a sangha would react that way... what happened? What exactly did they say?

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1/22/14 8:25 PM as a reply to Corinne Carter.
Pawel,

That's exactly what I'm trying to prevent! That, or becoming a proselytizer (like the Hank- ites!). I'm here posting (rather than just lurking as I was before) because the last couple of months have been kind of a wild ride. (I started the "Holy crap!" thread in the dharma diagnosis section, for anyone who wants the details.) I feel kind of like a kid who skipped a grade in school. I'm not sure where I am in this process, and don't think it's useful for me to try to figure that out- when I think about it, I can sense the ego- process wanting to latch on to either an "Enlightened Being" trip or a self- critical denigration of my experiences. I've stopped making some mistakes, like believing or even identifying with my own thoughts, and that's made my life smoother in most ways. But I'm starting to bump into more subtle stuff, such as building an identity around being someone with a non- self realization, as logically contradictory as that is. I'm also acclimating to living out my day- to- day life in a changed frame of reference. I'm hardly complaining- I wouldn't go back for the world.

I'm certainly not trying to imply that my or anyone else's experiences are in any way supernatural or irrational. I felt like my nervous system was getting re- wired in some way, but hanging out here has shown me that what I went through is hardly unique to me. Maybe someday we'll have better scientific explanations for these things that people have been experiencing for thousands of years.

Thanks to everyone for your helpful advice! And once again I'm grateful for the existence of this forum.

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1/23/14 10:35 AM as a reply to J C.
J C:
Jane Laurel Carrington:
Meditation is "in" these days, so most people will think you're doing some sort of MBSR. Everyone approves of reducing stress. Beyond that, be reassured that you could hit the million dollar jackpot and no one would ever know. In the meantime, save your deeper discussions for your forum mates (as suggested).

I made the mistake of trying to come out to some people at my local sangha and got hosed by a lot of ridicule and indifference. That was a couple of years ago, when I was feeling like hot stuff. I found out the hard way that no one wants to hear about it. Daniel has a chapter in MCTB on this very phenomenon.


Wow, I'm really curious about that. It's hard to imagine that people at a sangha would react that way... what happened? What exactly did they say?


It is amazing isn't it. I was warned, but I didn't really believe it, and let's face it, I had only just passed A&P at that point and thought I was some sort of expert. So when I went to an introductory meeting for a new devoted practitioner group that a friend and I put together, I broke out into talk about the path of insight, various nanas, and whatnot, and my friend used the word "fruition" one too many times. One fellow blew up at that point and said we were in no way authorized to discuss such things. He had a deep knowledge of the suttas, but seemed not to be too keen on the later commentaries, and while he knew something about pragmatic dharma, he was deeply suspicious of it. His position is that enlightenment is extremely rare, accessible only to monks and nuns, and takes many lifetimes of practice. Secular teachers like Kenneth Folk who accept payment are anathema to his point of view. The two other people who were there that day were utterly bewildered, and since our detractor spoke with great authority, and had a longer and deeper association with the sangha than I and my friend had, they were put off by our perspective.

I was angry and self-righteous for quite awhile afterward; I guess you'd say it was somewhat traumatic. But the truth is, I deserved to be slapped down a bit because I was way up there on my high horse and engaged persistent fantasies about being able to impress these people. It didn't help that one of them is a senior colleague where I work. We long ago kissed and made up, and agreed to disagree, and I have no desire to show off and provoke anything further.

The truth is that virtually no one will have the slightest idea what to do with whatever information you may try to offer them about your interests or attainments. They'll either write you off as some new-age twit, or shake their heads and forget about it. And there's an excellent reason for them to do so, I've long since come to realize: this practice does challenge and threaten one's ego-identity. Most people just want to be themselves, but not quite so miserable or dysfunctional. Can't say that I blame them.

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1/24/14 12:05 PM as a reply to Corinne Carter.
interesting thread, I just wrote something I was thinking about putting on my blog. This is a territory which I guess everyone goes through after having some insights -- "coming out and getting hosed" -- very amusing and familiar .... Laurel has pretty much nailed it, the practice is ego-threatening.

As things happened to me only last year, I am still pretty smug and zealous (kidding - sort of) emoticon which I hope is only a phase.

The most amazing thing for me is how even people who have had the same insights react, in real life and online.

Here is my take on it. Will we ever reach a society when to say you're awake is as easy as saying you're gay (in liberal cities in the west) for example?

========

This is 2014, the world needs to wake up. Time to drop the tired taboos surrounding Enlightenment & Awakening?

The Rise of Mindfulness

The year is 2014, and we are starting to see the word "mindfulness" everywhere, with successful programs in schools, prisons even corporate offices. The benefits that meditation has for stress management, productivity and well-being are well established. Meditation is losing its crusty, wishy-washy new age or religious image and becoming something that will be soon be as acceptable as jogging is as part of a healthy lifestyle. Nike-branded meditation cushions are probably on the way.

However, the historical Buddha, who is largely responsible for the worldwide spread of meditation, did not set out to help Shell executives be more productive. He founded his entire teaching on a single moment of insight, his awakening, which caused him to exclaim - "I, and the entire Universe are awakened". This is pointing at something much more subtle and profound than how mindfulness can help you diet.

What is Awakening?

There is something common to most spiritual traditions called Awakening or Enlightenment. In palatable, rational language, it is a neat little psychological trick you do to yourself, a switch in your brain you can pull, after which your brain is no longer stuck in duality-mode. You untie the knotted concept of "I" from any limited ideas of your body, 'you' or 'your mind', and it never re-ties again.

It no longer seems that there is anyone looking out of your eyes, or anyone speaking your words. There is no longer any belief at all in the existence of a nebulous entity which you refer to as "I" or "me". There is no longer any belief that anything in your experience is 'you' or not. It is profoundly liberating, often causing people months of bliss. This is the state of unity, of "one-ness with everything" which the sages describe.

Awakening as a condition, is as real as say, schizophrenia, homosexuality, or being in love. The number of MRI studies into "non-dual awareness states" from Harvard, Kings London and many other institutions has skyrocketed in the last couple of years.

It's not even that rare or difficult to attain.

If you live in any reasonable sized city, there will be both teachers and regular folk with families and jobs, who live from an authentic non-dual, Awakened experience (but regrettably also many who teach from just an intellectual understanding).

The conditions for awakening are stronger and stronger. People have more access to authentic information, and easier access to basic food and shelter, which gives them more free time to practice. As material conditions get better in the West, the spiritual call also becomes stronger for those who have eyes to see it. More and more people are having genuine spiritual Awakenings.

And things seem to be getting faster.

On the Liberation Unleashed, a forum which guides people to Awakening, there are people from all around the world popping awake every few days. On hardcore Dharma forums such at DharmaOverground, people share advice on meditating your way to Awakening as freely as information on how to change your car oil filter.

But it is incredibly hard to talk about.

Yet this core fact, the bedrock for all the great spiritual traditions - that a person can transform themselves so they experience unity, non-separation, on an ongoing basis - this fact remains an incredibly uncomfortable thing for people to handle.

Think about this for a second. In a lot of spiritual circles, saying you're Awakened is as painful a scenario as coming out as gay to a homophobic crowd. Especially if, like me, you're relatively young or haven't practiced in a recognised tradition.

People like the idea of Awakening as long as it's so remote from them that it remains a myth or a joke. Even yogis, people who describe themselves as spiritual, some practicing Buddhists, when confronted by the reality of someone sitting opposite them who has experienced a permanent non-dual awakening, becoming defensive. I watch spiritual seekers, people studying a degree in transpersonal or existential therapy, people who have been meditating for longer than I have been alive - all start to become visibly uncomfortable, when we talk about the actual possibility of Awakening, for them, in this life.

We need to change this attitude of fear surrounding Awakening

We now stand at a point in history where quantum physics has shown the utter lack of solidity in anything, at the fundamental level. We have experiments in neuroscience which point us directly to the fact there is simply no single part of the brain that direct and controls 'us'. We have found the God particle, but science on all fronts cannot find the thing which runs our lives - the "I". Materialist atheism is a common worldview yet these materialist atheists live their lives with the believe in something as utterly un-provable and un-verifiable as God - the individual self.

The planet is being destroyed due to greed. Many people believe that spiritual transformation of the population's consciousness is an utterly vital part of a solution.
So to all those who say they are on a spiritual path, if you are really interested in changing your consciousness, Awakening is the core, the heart of spiritual transformation that makes it uniquely different to any conventional moral framework.

If we want to accept Awakening as a Generally Good Thing, we first need to be able to talk about it with the current fear and freak show reactions that it generates. I remember when I was a child I heard an old lady say that she didn't even believe in homosexuality, she said it was just "people being contrary for the sake of it". This is where I would say that Awakening stands currently in the public consensus - scary or distasteful, and people would prefer it didn't exist.

I write this to raise awareness and understanding of the Awakened condition, just as people have done in the past for mental illness or vegetarianism. I look forward to a society which understands spiritual Awakening without fear or prejudice, and sees it as a useful thing to change the planet for the better.

Know that all the great sages experienced non-dual awakening. Know that the only reason their teachings survive as truth is exactly because it is possible for regular people to make the same Awakening. Practice well. Come home! emoticon

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1/24/14 2:18 PM as a reply to Sadalsuud Beta Aquarii.
Sadalsuud Beta Aquarii:

On the Liberation Unleashed, a forum which guides people to Awakening, there are people from all around the world popping awake every few days. On hardcore Dharma forums such at DharmaOverground, people share advice on meditating your way to Awakening as freely as information on how to change your car oil filter.


I thought the LU experience was different than 4th path in that it comes on in an instant and doesn't last. What kind of awakening do you mean? Are you talking about 4th path only?


Know that all the great sages experienced non-dual awakening.


Just being contrary... but what makes you think this? There are a lot of smart people who started movements and spread ideas, and a lot of the ideas are very different from non-dual awakening. How do you know they didn't experience something else?

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1/25/14 4:02 PM as a reply to J C.
Hi JC

the LU awakening and MCTB 4th path are IMO similar. Both are an awakening in which the FIXED belief in "a self-thing which is separate from the rest of experience" is forever gone. If you interested in reading about the different types of non-dual awakening, there is an excellent article here by AEN
here http://www.liberationunleashed.com/Article_Integrating-View-And-Experience.html

by "all the great sages", it was a flippant term, I guess I was talking about like Lao Tzu, The Buddha, Jesus, Nisargadatta, probably Rumi too. The ones people quote on Facebook emoticon

J C:
Sadalsuud Beta Aquarii:

On the Liberation Unleashed, a forum which guides people to Awakening, there are people from all around the world popping awake every few days. On hardcore Dharma forums such at DharmaOverground, people share advice on meditating your way to Awakening as freely as information on how to change your car oil filter.


I thought the LU experience was different than 4th path in that it comes on in an instant and doesn't last. What kind of awakening do you mean? Are you talking about 4th path only?


Know that all the great sages experienced non-dual awakening.


Just being contrary... but what makes you think this? There are a lot of smart people who started movements and spread ideas, and a lot of the ideas are very different from non-dual awakening. How do you know they didn't experience something else?

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1/26/14 7:03 AM as a reply to Corinne Carter.
Corinne Carter:
It's near- impossible to discuss this stuff in direct ways even with the people I'm closest to. How do the rest of you deal with knowing that others Just Wouldn't Understand about something that's very important to you? Maybe once Hank gives you enough money you stop caring about such things. But I'm not there yet.


Yeah...

I found that once I stopped using jargon and started listening to what people were saying, and responding to that, conversation became very natural. There was no need to get into "Dhamma Talk" mode.

Spiritual vocabulary is a crutch, useful to move around again after certain evens, but ultimately it's better to wean it off sooner rater than later.

Dhamma conversation is not confined to ancient middle-indian loan-words and theological concepts. That's Hank Talk - if John and Mary weren't allowed to use the words "Hank, kiss, ass, million, dollars, kick, and shit", they'd be quite speechless.

So when someone complains about something - they are expressing the first noble truth. Now to say, "The Buddha said that suffering was the first noble truth" would be Hank-Talk. To engage in a conversation about what's troubling them, toss around ideas about the causes/conditions, ways to proceed, and what it would mean for the troubles to go away: that would be a pretty deep Dhamma conversation, all four noble truths, without using a single Pali term. And it keeps it real and down to earth.

Here's another interesting topic, if the situation is right (i.e. everybody is relaxed and the subject is childhood memories): what kinds of mind games did people play when it was bedtime and the lights were off but they couldn't sleep yet. Surprisingly many people got several ñanas that way. Don't pull out the maps right then, it's way more fun to explore these experiences using everyday vocabulary, and without attaching any spiritual significance to them. They are wonderfully strange enough on their own terms, and sorting them into neat categories is not the best way to appreciate their weirdness.

Basically, the universality of the Dhamma means that there are no Dhamma-Free zones. There is no need to drag conversations into Dhamma territory, since everywhere is Dhamma territory.

Staying off the spiritual words may be difficult at first, but that's because it is a practice like any other one, learning curve and all.

Cheers,
Floorian

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1/27/14 5:50 PM as a reply to Sadalsuud Beta Aquarii.
Sadalsuud Beta Aquarii:
Hi JC

the LU awakening and MCTB 4th path are IMO similar. Both are an awakening in which the FIXED belief in "a self-thing which is separate from the rest of experience" is forever gone. If you interested in reading about the different types of non-dual awakening, there is an excellent article here by AEN
here http://www.liberationunleashed.com/Article_Integrating-View-And-Experience.html


I can't make any sense of that article. Could you help me understand it?

Being an arahat isn't just about eliminating the fixed belief, as I understand it, but actually changing the way you experience the world. I no longer believe in the self, and I completely understand that it doesn't exist intellectually, but it still seems like it does. It's not just the intellectual experience I'm looking for: I want to *feel* like I don't have free will.

Reading LU, I had the experience of seeing it gone, but it didn't last very long... how do I get it to stay, other than by becoming an arahat?


by "all the great sages", it was a flippant term, I guess I was talking about like Lao Tzu, The Buddha, Jesus, Nisargadatta, probably Rumi too. The ones people quote on Facebook emoticon


I knew what you meant. I just don't see any indication that a lot of those people experienced non-dual awakening. Jesus, for instance, had a very different mission and agenda which he was pretty explicit about: no divorces allowed, only he can save you from hell, sex work is a "sin," and so forth. I don't see a lot about non-dual awakening in the gospels.

I'd believe Lao-Tse and Chang-Tse might have been arahats, though they could have just been good philosophers and writers with an intellectual understanding.

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1/27/14 7:42 PM as a reply to Florian.
I like this thread, and particularly like Jane's and Florian's advice.

It is really useful to have people to speak in dharma language to and really useful to be able to totally shift to a very human, down-to-earth lexicon when talking with people who don't know that language and focus more on what is common to your collective experience, such as basic emotions and the like, as those generally tend to translate well.

When talking with my physician consultants in the emergency department, such as when signing over patient to them, I let the advanced jargon roll rapidly at full force: hyper-technical and obscure medical terms based on Greek and Latin, lab values without explanation, etc. and it facilitates rapid and precise communication between people who are comfortable with all of that, but when I go back to the bedside to talk with the patient I suddenly shift to a totally different mode of communication in which almost none of that happens (unless they happened to have some technical medical background) and instead use simple, straightforward, and non-alienating terms that the general public can more easily understand, and so everyone is happy. In that same way, I third their notion that meeting people where they are and talking in terms that make sense to them is a great idea.

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1/28/14 10:30 AM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
So, um, me too. I seem to be very slowly learning this stuff.

For me, it has been hard at times to accept that
"Most people are never going to be interested in reaching enlightenment; that's just a fact." - JC
Many (like in my local groups) seem to be very interested in all the trappings, reading about it, studying the dharma, but when it comes to meditation as near as I can figure they mostly just want to relax and drift, or to use the meditation as time to think about things ("I will meditate on [concept, relationship, etc.]").

They seem to be satisfied by a few minutes of relaxation every now and then, they enjoy the community, and the "armchair" buddhism. They seem to believe that their reading and psychotherapy is the path (not that those things are incompatible), while at the same time considering actual enlightenment to be impossible.

I was clearly never satisified.

I liked what Florian (and Daniel) said:
"I found that once I stopped using jargon and started listening to what people were saying, and responding to that, conversation became very natural." - Florian

I'll mention that occasionally the 3 local KFDers here would meet up at a local sangha. We'd have to play it cool in the group, but once we got alone, it would be like the floodgates were opened. Massive amounts of info being exchanged. Like this site. But it's really nice in person.

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1/28/14 2:23 PM as a reply to Corinne Carter.
On a similar note even with the ones you love and who love you there are limits to the amount of Dharma that can be discussed. I get excited about something and want to share it with my wife but the problem is I most often go way past the point of sharing and having a two way conversation and end up on a soap box lecturing one sided about something I have passion for. We discussed this and came up with a safe word---Banana. When she says it I stop my yammering, recognize the one sidedness (again) and change topics to something inclusive.
There is nothing more annoying then someone having a one sided conversation with someone regardless of how exciting the topic is... hmmm...unless of course it's a online forum....hooray! I found my spot...emoticon

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1/28/14 4:51 PM as a reply to Dream Walker.
Dream Walker:
On a similar note even with the ones you love and who love you there are limits to the amount of Dharma that can be discussed. I get excited about something and want to share it with my wife but the problem is I most often go way past the point of sharing and having a two way conversation and end up on a soap box lecturing one sided about something I have passion for. We discussed this and came up with a safe word---Banana. When she says it I stop my yammering, recognize the one sidedness (again) and change topics to something inclusive.
There is nothing more annoying then someone having a one sided conversation with someone regardless of how exciting the topic is... hmmm...unless of course it's a online forum....hooray! I found my spot...emoticon


Haha, banana....brilliant! I went through a period of trying to push my wife in the direction I desired. Goodness what a learning experience. 4 years down the track, I never mention anything about it anymore, one because I learnt my lesson the hard way and two, after 4 years, the descent into the rabbit hole has zapped me of all proselytising tendencies (at least to those not of the choir). Our safe word was more a glazed look that would come over my wife and then her asking me what the point was, and I would always have forgotten it.

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1/28/14 5:17 PM as a reply to Nikolai ..
Nik - could I just ask - are you wishing now that you'd never even gone down the rabbit hole? Or am I getting the wrong end of the stick?

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1/29/14 2:34 PM as a reply to Robin Woods.
Robin Woods:
Nik - could I just ask - are you wishing now that you'd never even gone down the rabbit hole? Or am I getting the wrong end of the stick?


No, not really (not wishing that). Why do you think you are "getting the wrong end of the stick"?

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1/29/14 7:11 PM as a reply to Nikolai ..
It's just that the higher path guys all seem to either disappear or seem kinda disillusioned with the whole thing?

Thanks anyway for the stuff on the Hamilton Project - an awesome resource for those trying to follow in your wake....

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1/29/14 7:29 PM as a reply to Nikolai ..
Nikolai .:
Robin Woods:
Nik - could I just ask - are you wishing now that you'd never even gone down the rabbit hole? Or am I getting the wrong end of the stick?


No, not really (not wishing that). Why do you think you are "getting the wrong end of the stick"?


I've stopped fussing over a lot of stuff. And life calls for me to focus elsewhere. That is my excuse even though i still post from time to time. Others probably get pulled elsewhere as well. You eventually just have to live your life. Sometimes you simply find activities you once liked to do not so fulfilling, or simply life pulls focus elsewhere.

It's life.

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1/30/14 4:24 AM as a reply to Robin Woods.
Robin Woods:
It's just that the higher path guys all seem to either disappear or seem kinda disillusioned with the whole thing?


Speaking for myself as a long-time DhO regular, I agree with Nick that Life is just Life. Stuff happens that demands attention.

But you mentioned the word, "disillusioned". That's kinda the point of what we're doing here, no? To dispel the power of the illusions? I'm not saying this in a spirit of word-play.

I always enjoy it when an old-timer reappears here with news about what they have been up to. Like Triplethink did, recently. Looking forward to the next one to do so.

Cheers,
Florian