Hello -

I would appreciate others' thoughts on refining my vipassana practice, when in a state of high equanimity / 4th vipassana jhana.

For background - I seem to be in varying states of equanimity. Over the past couple of years, I have fairly clearly passed through 3c's, A&P, and then the dark night stages. Although I do not think that I have had any fruition yet, it is fairly easy for me to attain some jhana states (in the sense described by Leigh Brasington in his talks and writings). My practice is generally about working up to 4th samatha jhana, maybe working on the 5th or 6th, and then doing vipassana. (I have been practicing and studying these jhana states for about a year now, so I am fairly confident and clear that these are being attained, even if they aren't always hard jhana states.)

I feel like my vipassana practice at this point is very close, but it is a subtle and difficult thing. I sometimes consciously take up different 'formations' (according to the form, feeling, perception . . . list). Lately, I have been dropping into a fairly vibratory state, that included the body, but this was generally fairly brief each time before the vibrations calmed down.

I try to passively let the 3 characteristics present themselves to me in the object, but this is a difficult thing. It is easy for this to either bleed over into a small trickle of reflection, or to feel like I am just not seeing the three characteristics fully. I will have small moments of discursive thought pop up (i.e. 'insights' in the common sense). If walking, I can perceive layers of different experiences and moments in each step, but still feel like there is something missing, and that I am not having any clear fruitions.

I sometimes think it is productive to focus on my volition, or how I am framing the moment, but again not sure about that. I am not sure that is superior to focusing on breath sensations, or other objects.

I am experimenting with vipassana within some of the jhana states, as described in MCTB. But again, this is a subtle thing for my skill level at this time.

I alternately convince myself that I have attained SE already or that I am so close that this current practice will be sufficient. At times, I do feel like much of my suffering has been relieved. Whether that is permanent I am not sure.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Edit/update - I re-read the 'heirarchy of vipassana' thread and it was helpful. It was pretty much addressing my question in general terms. But if anyone has additional thoughts that would be great.

What I don't see here is the basics...can you note the 6 senses level by level from the vip jhanas 1-4 and at each stage apply the 3 characteristics? You might have missed something in doing it concentration style. Give it a shot if you have not already done so.
When you say you consciously take up formations, what do you mean?
Formations have always just happened on their own for me...usually after a period of dreaminess and when back, bang, total lock on something arising and passing on it's own, without any effort, very clear, totally encompassing.
Good luck,
~D

Could you expand on your first point? I am clear on noting the 6 senses and can see them overlapping in the consideration of different objects (like sensation and mental image forming 'in' breath). However, I have never consciously moved through the vipassana jhanas. The vipassana jhanas (in my current understanding and practice) are just sort of 'where I am falling' in the current stages of insight / / and my current energy level at that time. If you feel like I missed something please elucidate since I'd be happy to try new approaches.

About the formations - when I feel like I am doing vipassana well, I sometimes make a conscious choice to 'look at' and examine things in terms of the classic list of five formations. So in walking meditation, I might consider 'form', then feeling, then perception, etc. and I see how different sense impressions interplay to make those formations. Maybe I should back away from putting that much direction and intention in the practice, and just see what arises? That was sort of the advice from my in-person teacher, who doesn't really like talking about 'maps' or stages.

If you have noted the 6 senses thru the nanas and can sit and note to Eq then I'd say you are doing well. Keep going up to high EQ and kinda let go a bit...allow yourself to be gentle in the noting and space out just a little bit, just enjoy the spaciousness and kinda let your subconsciousness a little leeway in doing things. Let go of control/controlling. Let it happen, you can't force it.
Follow the teachers advice...see what arises on it's own and apply the three characteristics just a bit...but gently...notice the passing away and the moment it fades to nothing...look gently at the nothing before the next arising. Relax into it until you couldn't possibly relax any more and be open to whatever.
Good luck,
~D

Awesome, I think you are probably right. I am probably putting too much intention/force into my vipassana practice, just out of my motivation to have insights. Considering I have heard similar advice at least two times, I should probably start to listen to it! Thanks!