Jehanne's practice log - Discussion
I've been lurking around DhO a few months now after having rekindled my interest in this thing people call meditation. Time to start my own practice log! 
Something about my background: I was participating actively in a diamond way buddhist center for maybe a year around 2009. At the same time I was going through quite a lot of material on buddhism, including the MCTB, which duly impressed me. My practice was daily, maybe an hour or a half a day. I participated a few day retreat during this time (phowa) but it was heavily lecture based, with much less daily meditation than I would have liked.
Some memorable experiences from the tantric meditation period include being able to hear sound coming from children's playground maybe a block away and somehow profoundly sensing and realizing that I AM THERE. That I am not limited to this body, but rather all by sensual experiences are me, and being me is in this way more flexible than I had previously thought.
Second experience was right after finishing up a mantra/visualization meditation session. As I opened my eyes, I felt as if my body was bigger than my standard flesh-and-bones body. I was sort of gently vibrating all over, and these vibrations were extending beyond the boundaries of my body.
Ok, enough of the past! So, where am I now? I re-read MCTB in the fall 2013 on a bus commuting. I developed quite serious determination to give this thing another try. During christmas holiday I arranged time to meditate every day for maybe two 40min sessions.I try to make time to sit with my eyes closed everyday. 10 minutes is the minimum, but I try to do several 40-50 minutes sessions when personal life allows it. I also pay attention to the sensations when walking, or in the elevator etc, when I remember to do that.
My main short term goal would be to develop insight to the extent that I can understand what people are talking about, when they say everything is vibrating. I think I maybe saw a glimpse of that on 2009 as I described above, but after starting again I haven't gotten much further other than being able to note maybe 2-3 times per second quite consistently. Distractions occur from time to time, depending on the day. I have this bugging feeling that I am not doing it right or something, but after reading the DhO I can't say that I'm doing anything different than people seem to be doing here. It's probably just that I have t be patient and keep doing it!
Samatha-wise I would like to improve my concentration and learn to recognize the different jhanas. At the moment I am at a phase where I think I can attain access concentration maybe 50% of the time. I've used breath, lights behind my eyelids and candle flame as an object.
The visions behind my eyelids are the most recent addition to my list of concentration objects. The first two times I tried, I noticed after about 10-20 minutes that blue circles started to appear at the center of my visual field. I was able to focus on those and noticed a clear shift in my concentration, the background noise disappeared. Success! The next few times I tried doing this I was unable to get anywhere past the initial background noise.
Using candle light as a kasina object was surprisingly productive the first time I tried. I had read Daniel's description of what is supposed to happen (http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/Main/MCTB%20Bill%20HamiltonS%20Model?p_r_p_185834411_title=MCTB%20Bill%20HamiltonS%20Model). I didn't expect much, but instead I was sky rocketed exactly through the phases I remembered reading. After closing my eyes I first saw this noisy, textured background. But suddenly a clear red dot was visible and the background noise completely disappeared. I was watching this dot as it chanced color, acquired green and purple rings and I even saw a tiny star circling in the middle! At some point it became completely black and also disappeared. It was a bit hard to keep track of all that was happening, but this experience blew my mind as it was EXACTLY as described, no question about it! The next few times with a candle light didn't even go to the clear, initial blob phase, I was just observing the noisy background. Trying again this week I was able to follow the phases at least three time to the disappearing black dot.
I like to think that I'm somewhat visually oriented. The elaborate visualizations in the vajrayana tradition come relatively natural to me, and I have incorporated these visualizations to my current practice from time to time. For example, I did a certain visualization and mantra recitation recently and at some point the mantra started to feel like massive stone wheel that was rotating heavily in my mind.
The thing I like about MCTB and DhO is to be able to find descriptions of actual meditation experiences and attainments. This sort of thing was completely lacking from the diamond way approach. There were no maps, and any directions on how to meditate were considerably less clear than what I have found here. I asked many times how am I supposed to know I am doing this right, and never got any useful answers. Only after reading extensively afterwards I've come to the conclusion that they, too, were onto something. The method was just not right for me at the time.
I hope to maintain a balanced and healthy attitude towards this meditation thing, and also to keep practicing. This log is to be a reminder of that and also where I was at this time.
Let's see how it goes!
-J
Something about my background: I was participating actively in a diamond way buddhist center for maybe a year around 2009. At the same time I was going through quite a lot of material on buddhism, including the MCTB, which duly impressed me. My practice was daily, maybe an hour or a half a day. I participated a few day retreat during this time (phowa) but it was heavily lecture based, with much less daily meditation than I would have liked.
Some memorable experiences from the tantric meditation period include being able to hear sound coming from children's playground maybe a block away and somehow profoundly sensing and realizing that I AM THERE. That I am not limited to this body, but rather all by sensual experiences are me, and being me is in this way more flexible than I had previously thought.
Second experience was right after finishing up a mantra/visualization meditation session. As I opened my eyes, I felt as if my body was bigger than my standard flesh-and-bones body. I was sort of gently vibrating all over, and these vibrations were extending beyond the boundaries of my body.
Ok, enough of the past! So, where am I now? I re-read MCTB in the fall 2013 on a bus commuting. I developed quite serious determination to give this thing another try. During christmas holiday I arranged time to meditate every day for maybe two 40min sessions.I try to make time to sit with my eyes closed everyday. 10 minutes is the minimum, but I try to do several 40-50 minutes sessions when personal life allows it. I also pay attention to the sensations when walking, or in the elevator etc, when I remember to do that.
My main short term goal would be to develop insight to the extent that I can understand what people are talking about, when they say everything is vibrating. I think I maybe saw a glimpse of that on 2009 as I described above, but after starting again I haven't gotten much further other than being able to note maybe 2-3 times per second quite consistently. Distractions occur from time to time, depending on the day. I have this bugging feeling that I am not doing it right or something, but after reading the DhO I can't say that I'm doing anything different than people seem to be doing here. It's probably just that I have t be patient and keep doing it!
Samatha-wise I would like to improve my concentration and learn to recognize the different jhanas. At the moment I am at a phase where I think I can attain access concentration maybe 50% of the time. I've used breath, lights behind my eyelids and candle flame as an object.
The visions behind my eyelids are the most recent addition to my list of concentration objects. The first two times I tried, I noticed after about 10-20 minutes that blue circles started to appear at the center of my visual field. I was able to focus on those and noticed a clear shift in my concentration, the background noise disappeared. Success! The next few times I tried doing this I was unable to get anywhere past the initial background noise.
Using candle light as a kasina object was surprisingly productive the first time I tried. I had read Daniel's description of what is supposed to happen (http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/Main/MCTB%20Bill%20HamiltonS%20Model?p_r_p_185834411_title=MCTB%20Bill%20HamiltonS%20Model). I didn't expect much, but instead I was sky rocketed exactly through the phases I remembered reading. After closing my eyes I first saw this noisy, textured background. But suddenly a clear red dot was visible and the background noise completely disappeared. I was watching this dot as it chanced color, acquired green and purple rings and I even saw a tiny star circling in the middle! At some point it became completely black and also disappeared. It was a bit hard to keep track of all that was happening, but this experience blew my mind as it was EXACTLY as described, no question about it! The next few times with a candle light didn't even go to the clear, initial blob phase, I was just observing the noisy background. Trying again this week I was able to follow the phases at least three time to the disappearing black dot.
I like to think that I'm somewhat visually oriented. The elaborate visualizations in the vajrayana tradition come relatively natural to me, and I have incorporated these visualizations to my current practice from time to time. For example, I did a certain visualization and mantra recitation recently and at some point the mantra started to feel like massive stone wheel that was rotating heavily in my mind.
The thing I like about MCTB and DhO is to be able to find descriptions of actual meditation experiences and attainments. This sort of thing was completely lacking from the diamond way approach. There were no maps, and any directions on how to meditate were considerably less clear than what I have found here. I asked many times how am I supposed to know I am doing this right, and never got any useful answers. Only after reading extensively afterwards I've come to the conclusion that they, too, were onto something. The method was just not right for me at the time.
I hope to maintain a balanced and healthy attitude towards this meditation thing, and also to keep practicing. This log is to be a reminder of that and also where I was at this time.
Let's see how it goes!
-J
Jehanne S Peacock:
I've been lurking around DhO a few months now after having rekindled my interest in this thing people call meditation. Time to start my own practice log!
Welcome to the Dho!
Jehanne S Peacock:
My main short term goal would be to develop insight to the extent that I can understand what people are talking about, when they say everything is vibrating. I think I maybe saw a glimpse of that on 2009 as I described above, but after starting again I haven't gotten much further other than being able to note maybe 2-3 times per second quite consistently. Distractions occur from time to time, depending on the day. I have this bugging feeling that I am not doing it right or something, but after reading the DhO I can't say that I'm doing anything different than people seem to be doing here. It's probably just that I have t be patient and keep doing it!
It looks like you are doing well...keep it up. I've found daily practice to be the best indicator of success in my path...every day getting to the furthest spot you can get and working there with noting and the three characteristics. Phenomena seen clearly, noted to keep from getting into the content and sometimes gently seeing that the sensation/thought is not me, doesn't last, and doesn't satisfy.
Jehanne S Peacock:
Samatha-wise I would like to improve my concentration and learn to recognize the different jhanas. At the moment I am at a phase where I think I can attain access concentration maybe 50% of the time. I've used breath, lights behind my eyelids and candle flame as an object.
Recognizing the different Jhanas takes a bit of repetition thru them and also not getting in your own way intellectually thinking they have to be "more" than what you are experiencing. Yes, fully absorbed descriptions are super obvious and intense but notice the differences every time you feel a shift...notice what the differences are, and especially notice the shifts. Then reread the descriptions and see if there is anything useful. Trust your experiences as they unfold and take notes.
Good luck,
~D
Dream Walker:
Jehanne S Peacock:
I've been lurking around DhO a few months now after having rekindled my interest in this thing people call meditation. Time to start my own practice log!
Welcome to the Dho!
Thanks!
Dream Walker:
It looks like you are doing well...keep it up. I've found daily practice to be the best indicator of success in my path...every day getting to the furthest spot you can get and working there with noting and the three characteristics. Phenomena seen clearly, noted to keep from getting into the content and sometimes gently seeing that the sensation/thought is not me, doesn't last, and doesn't satisfy.
Good to hear you think that
I did some noting practise this morning on the bus. I scheduled 20 minutes, but unfortunately I found myself sleeping at the end. In the beginning I was able to note quite ok, although I was interrupted by a wandering mind from time to time. Labeling the sensations is a bit tricky for me, cause I tend to swich to auto mode, where I'm just mindlessly repeating the last label. If I'm simply alert and notice different types of sensations, I don't fall into this trap, but then it's possible that the mind starts to drift more easily. I have to look more closely into that. Also during the working day I try remember to pay attention to the bare sensations when I can.
For some reason I kind of take it for granted that the thoughts are not me. I dunno if I'm thinking this somehow funny, but I just don't know how to relate to the idea that my thoughts are somehow me. I don't know what me is, either, so could be that I'm just as confused as the next guy and just don't know how to put in in words
Dream Walker:
Recognizing the different Jhanas takes a bit of repetition thru them and also not getting in your own way intellectually thinking they have to be "more" than what you are experiencing. Yes, fully absorbed descriptions are super obvious and intense but notice the differences every time you feel a shift...notice what the differences are, and especially notice the shifts. Then reread the descriptions and see if there is anything useful. Trust your experiences as they unfold and take notes.
Good luck,
~D
Good luck,
~D
This is a good tip, not expecting anything more than what you experience. At one point I was very interested in the models and wanted to keenly know where I stood with respect to the models. I assume I don't have enough experience, and therefore I feel like it is easy to get tricked and somehow start to feel that the tiniest experience is somewhere very far in the maps Although I can understand that the contrary as you explained, can occur easily too. At this point I'm thinking more along the lines of "who cares" with regards to the maps. I've found it interesting that I've had a handful of experiences that actually exhibit some sort of recognazible pattern in them, namely the candle light kasina and light behind my eyes.
I had a funny dream the other night. I was meditating and was able to land some sort of concentration state over and over again. The dream was very realistic, I could see only the things I see normally with eyes closed, and the state I landed felt very much like to ones I've experienced. It wasn't a lucid dream or anything but was kinda interesting in any case!
-J
Didn't have enough time to sit properly yesterday. I managed some 10 minutes plus trying to note during the day. I know I'm not doing this out-of-the-cushion noting anywhere near as diligently as is possible, but I'll keep trying. I've found that evening walks with the dog are a nice setting for this. It's usually more calm and quiet than in the bus, plus I can't fall asleep while I'm walking 
I have a vague memory that the beginning of the session I was somehow able to feel more concentrated from the start than I was some week before, let's say. I'm not sure, though.
One possibly related thing I noticed yesterday:I got into an argument with someone at home, and I was getting really angry. Normally things could start to get out of hand, me not acting as skillfully as I could (think: throwing stuff etc..) but now I almost automatically stopped what I was about to do. Then I reached for the next "unskillful" thing, but automatically dropped that too. This happened maybe five time consequtively, after which I decided it's time to meditate a bit. The fight was over after that, yay!
I have a vague memory that the beginning of the session I was somehow able to feel more concentrated from the start than I was some week before, let's say. I'm not sure, though.
One possibly related thing I noticed yesterday:I got into an argument with someone at home, and I was getting really angry. Normally things could start to get out of hand, me not acting as skillfully as I could (think: throwing stuff etc..) but now I almost automatically stopped what I was about to do. Then I reached for the next "unskillful" thing, but automatically dropped that too. This happened maybe five time consequtively, after which I decided it's time to meditate a bit. The fight was over after that, yay!
The last three days I've done meditation as usual.
On Friday I did some short sessions of noting/generally being aware of stuff and noticed it was very easy and enjoyable to slip into the meditative state. So I arranged the time to sit formally for 20 minutes. The overall feeling was that it was easy and fun.
Saturday I did a 40 minute session and the biggest effect that I noticed was that my shoulders became incredibly stiff right at the beginning of the session. I've never experienced such from meditation, and I was using my standard posture sitting legs crossed on a cushion. I also noticed at some point that I was sitting in a really hunched back posture, and hadn't noticed how it had slipped into that. Overall experienced wasn't happy and enjoyable, but not terribel, either, except for the shoulder stiffness.
That night I had dream that started to transform into a lucid/sleep paralysis kind of state. I recognise this from the twisting sensation that permeates all my experience, and I typically try to resist it, because I've had some extremely frightening experiences under this state. It seems that I finally gave in to the feeling. What happened next was that I was feeling a tingling sensation starting from my chest area that I have occasionally when doing concentration practices. I remember I was flying upwards, my arms wide open like I was flying, looking up, there were these sparkles around me in black space, kind of like fireworks that are about to explode, and I was thinking: "FUCK YEAAH THIS IS IT!!!", thinking about A&P type of thing. Then suddenly I everything returned back to normal, no explosions or anything fancy. So yeah, don't count your chickens before they're hatched
Sunday I had a rather normal noting session for 20 minutes. I remember being somewhat annoyed by the fact that I may be doing the noting thing not diligently enough. I mean, I have a feeling I am starting to do this noticing more concentration-style than 3 characteristics-style. That I'm actually concentrating on noticing the things changing and appearing and disappearing. I think what got me to suspect this more is the fact that I was perhaps getting a similar jhanic(?) experience as with my eyes closed, namely bluish circles appearing in my center of vision. I've read tips about focusing more on the endings of sensations, and I have been trying to implement that. It's easy to do with passing car sound, or some click coming from household equipment. But it's more difficult to do it with thougts and physical feelings.
I also did a couple of rounds candle light concentration, which turned out to be business as usual.
On Friday I did some short sessions of noting/generally being aware of stuff and noticed it was very easy and enjoyable to slip into the meditative state. So I arranged the time to sit formally for 20 minutes. The overall feeling was that it was easy and fun.
Saturday I did a 40 minute session and the biggest effect that I noticed was that my shoulders became incredibly stiff right at the beginning of the session. I've never experienced such from meditation, and I was using my standard posture sitting legs crossed on a cushion. I also noticed at some point that I was sitting in a really hunched back posture, and hadn't noticed how it had slipped into that. Overall experienced wasn't happy and enjoyable, but not terribel, either, except for the shoulder stiffness.
That night I had dream that started to transform into a lucid/sleep paralysis kind of state. I recognise this from the twisting sensation that permeates all my experience, and I typically try to resist it, because I've had some extremely frightening experiences under this state. It seems that I finally gave in to the feeling. What happened next was that I was feeling a tingling sensation starting from my chest area that I have occasionally when doing concentration practices. I remember I was flying upwards, my arms wide open like I was flying, looking up, there were these sparkles around me in black space, kind of like fireworks that are about to explode, and I was thinking: "FUCK YEAAH THIS IS IT!!!", thinking about A&P type of thing. Then suddenly I everything returned back to normal, no explosions or anything fancy. So yeah, don't count your chickens before they're hatched
Sunday I had a rather normal noting session for 20 minutes. I remember being somewhat annoyed by the fact that I may be doing the noting thing not diligently enough. I mean, I have a feeling I am starting to do this noticing more concentration-style than 3 characteristics-style. That I'm actually concentrating on noticing the things changing and appearing and disappearing. I think what got me to suspect this more is the fact that I was perhaps getting a similar jhanic(?) experience as with my eyes closed, namely bluish circles appearing in my center of vision. I've read tips about focusing more on the endings of sensations, and I have been trying to implement that. It's easy to do with passing car sound, or some click coming from household equipment. But it's more difficult to do it with thougts and physical feelings.
I also did a couple of rounds candle light concentration, which turned out to be business as usual.
Jehanne S Peacock:
That night I had dream that started to transform into a lucid/sleep paralysis kind of state. I recognize this from the twisting sensation that permeates all my experience, and I typically try to resist it, because I've had some extremely frightening experiences under this state. It seems that I finally gave in to the feeling. What happened next was that I was feeling a tingling sensation starting from my chest area that I have occasionally when doing concentration practices. I remember I was flying upwards, my arms wide open like I was flying, looking up, there were these sparkles around me in black space, kind of like fireworks that are about to explode, and I was thinking: "FUCK YEAAH THIS IS IT!!!", thinking about A&P type of thing. Then suddenly I everything returned back to normal, no explosions or anything fancy. So yeah, don't count your chickens before they're hatched
Jehanne S Peacock:
Sunday I had a rather normal noting session for 20 minutes. I remember being somewhat annoyed by the fact that I may be doing the noting thing not diligently enough. I mean, I have a feeling I am starting to do this noticing more concentration-style than 3 characteristics-style. That I'm actually concentrating on noticing the things changing and appearing and disappearing. I think what got me to suspect this more is the fact that I was perhaps getting a similar jhanic(?) experience as with my eyes closed, namely bluish circles appearing in my center of vision. I've read tips about focusing more on the endings of sensations, and I have been trying to implement that. It's easy to do with passing car sound, or some click coming from household equipment. But it's more difficult to do it with thoughts and physical feelings.
I also did a couple of rounds candle light concentration, which turned out to be business as usual.
I also did a couple of rounds candle light concentration, which turned out to be business as usual.
Noting will get you to jhanic states too. You are trying to stay in the present by noticing reality present itself with minimal interference of the mind. Concentration tends to exclude reality while you stay in the now. Don't worry about what arises when noting...it's just more things to note. I get visuals too. Note seeing. Note seeing. Note seeing.
Good luck,
~D
I have been doing irregular meditation for the past three weeks. Less formal sitting, more noting and generally being aware during every day activites, plus some occasional visualization stuff while going about my usual business! I have nothing specific to report from those sessions. However, a few things have happened which I'd like to report here for future reference.
I've had a couple of occasions where after a dream I enter into this state which is not quite dreaming and not really awake, either. The characteristic things here are black and white, geometrical visuals which are constantly moving. The black-and-whiteness has a similar visual style as the colors behind the eyelids when keeping eyes closed. What I mean is that the colors ar not very clear and pure, they seem more see-through or like oil on the surface of water. But yet somehow the geometrical patterns are very clear. Black and white squares with smaller, different colored squares in the middle, all lined up and moving like a conveyor belt. Some cogwheel and handheld fan type of visual, with many fine, moving lines were visible on the other occasion.
Before one of these visuals I had a dream, where I visited my dead grandmother's house. I heard someone come in from the door, and exited another door at the same time. This led me to a corridor with three doors, each having a distinguishable creaking sound when opened (old doors!). I remember walking out the third door and thinking about the three characteristics (the dream was very clearly symbolic in this sense) and then I entered the visuals.
I also had my first lucid dream in maybe 15 years! I remember I had this impulse to rip myself out of the normal dream, literally leaping forward, and then I was awake! I was again very excited about this and started to immediately think how to maintain this state. However, very quickly the lucidness began to wane, and I was bag in the sluggish, normal dream. I remember, however, that while I felt completely normal and awake, my perceptual eyes were looking at my physical body from the outside. This didn't strike me odd in the dream. Also, I think immediately after the dream, I had a visual thing, that resembled very much the things I saw before. However, this time the object was a rotating Buddha head!
The last oddity is something that makes me wonder if I should even mention it... But here goes! I was walking outside, listening to a podcast with earphones from my cellphone. These was this big truck type of thing brushing the sand of the street nearby, making it harder for me to actually hear what was said on the podcast. Then I had this crackling sound and felt like I had just received a small electric shock though my earphones! I wondered if maybe the brushes and sand from the vehicle nearby might have caused some static electricity effect, and was also considering maybe removing the plugs from my ears and not have voltage run accross my head, but decided then not to. The effect coudn't have been too dangerous, since I wasn't hook on to any sort of mains power line.
I didn't think it was in any way related to stuff on this forum, but after reading this bit of text from MCTB about A&P I started to wonder:
Emphasis on the parts that seems to fit my experience.
But yeah, I dunno what the hell that was
I've had a couple of occasions where after a dream I enter into this state which is not quite dreaming and not really awake, either. The characteristic things here are black and white, geometrical visuals which are constantly moving. The black-and-whiteness has a similar visual style as the colors behind the eyelids when keeping eyes closed. What I mean is that the colors ar not very clear and pure, they seem more see-through or like oil on the surface of water. But yet somehow the geometrical patterns are very clear. Black and white squares with smaller, different colored squares in the middle, all lined up and moving like a conveyor belt. Some cogwheel and handheld fan type of visual, with many fine, moving lines were visible on the other occasion.
Before one of these visuals I had a dream, where I visited my dead grandmother's house. I heard someone come in from the door, and exited another door at the same time. This led me to a corridor with three doors, each having a distinguishable creaking sound when opened (old doors!). I remember walking out the third door and thinking about the three characteristics (the dream was very clearly symbolic in this sense) and then I entered the visuals.
I also had my first lucid dream in maybe 15 years! I remember I had this impulse to rip myself out of the normal dream, literally leaping forward, and then I was awake! I was again very excited about this and started to immediately think how to maintain this state. However, very quickly the lucidness began to wane, and I was bag in the sluggish, normal dream. I remember, however, that while I felt completely normal and awake, my perceptual eyes were looking at my physical body from the outside. This didn't strike me odd in the dream. Also, I think immediately after the dream, I had a visual thing, that resembled very much the things I saw before. However, this time the object was a rotating Buddha head!
The last oddity is something that makes me wonder if I should even mention it... But here goes! I was walking outside, listening to a podcast with earphones from my cellphone. These was this big truck type of thing brushing the sand of the street nearby, making it harder for me to actually hear what was said on the podcast. Then I had this crackling sound and felt like I had just received a small electric shock though my earphones! I wondered if maybe the brushes and sand from the vehicle nearby might have caused some static electricity effect, and was also considering maybe removing the plugs from my ears and not have voltage run accross my head, but decided then not to. The effect coudn't have been too dangerous, since I wasn't hook on to any sort of mains power line.
I didn't think it was in any way related to stuff on this forum, but after reading this bit of text from MCTB about A&P I started to wonder:
"Wild “kundalini” phenomena are very common at this point, including powerful physical shaking and releases, explosions of consciousness like a fireworks display or a tornado, visions, and especially vortexes of powerful fine “electrical” vibrations blasting down one's spinal column and/or between one's ears. These vortexes can be very loud. These sorts of experiences can occur quite unexpectedly and even off the cushion, such as in lucid dreams. They may be followed by various mixtures of wonder, excitement, bliss, extraordinary joy, and sometimes disorientation."
Emphasis on the parts that seems to fit my experience.
But yeah, I dunno what the hell that was
Florian Weps:
Fun! I may have had a similar experience a few years ago. Have a look at these comments on Duncan's blog.
I also remember a rotating head from a dream around that time - but it was a green wireframe skull.
Cool, thanks for the story
Florian Weps:
All in all, this sounds like the A&P in all its glory. Enjoy! And be aware that the dukkha ñanas follow this stage like thunder follows lightning, as Daniel puts it.
You're probably right. I'll try to do my best also in the future, and I'll come and report back here when the shit starts hitting the fan, so to speak!
For the record, meditation has been very easy the past days. I look forward to to my timed sits, and I am experiencing no difficulties at all. That is, no physical pains, no problems with mind wander (it occurs, but less frequent and is really "less of a problem"). Let's see how long this continues
After just a few days from my last post, I experienced a few things that could be relevant.
I regularly walk my dog in a nearby forest that has a decent path with some street lights. We do these walks pretty late, so it's usually dark. Some of the lights are out but I don't really mind as I can manage the familiar way even when it's dark. For the past weeks I've noticed that I've become somewhat scared to walk there when it's dark. I try to be mindful of this situation, and acknowledge what I can actually perceive in the woods, and I also notice how my mind is starting to create all these frightening screnarios. Sometimes I hear various sounds from the dark and my mind tarts to immediately think how someone's there and whether they are coming, or what if there's a rabbit and my dog starts chasing it and I break my leg and the dog gets lost... This goes on and on! I realize that it's just my mind playing tricks, but still don't really feel comfortable being there. The last time I actually decided not to enter the dark part and was just hanging under the last functioning light when it suddenly blacked out
I decided not to enter the woods for a while!
After my first freafull walk in the woods I was laying in the bed just about to sleep. I was doing nothing in particular when all of a sudden I realized that my mind had displayed a highly detailed little movie clip of a rotting Venus of Willendorf -like corpse with rotting flesh dropping off of the thing. Later that night I had a dream where I entered a room with a massage table and there was a stiffened, gray corpse there with a crooked body and face that looked like it had screamed in agony. None of these imagenes really felt like anything, I wasn't terrified or scared at all. I just observed what was going on.
When doing formal meditation I have noticed that I get distracted by my thoughts very easily. It takes a longer time for me to realize I'm doing this. Sometimes it even feels like there is a strong current of thought that is just overwhelming me, and there is nothing I can do. On some occations, though, I have also been able to access some sort of jhanic states in between the floods of thought. So it's not all bad, but there are clearly periods when it's harder to keep my mind on the task.
I have been trying to think whether or not my concentration is more panoramic than before, but I'm unsure about this. Could be, but it is hard for me to describe with enough detail at this point. One effect I remember from last time I meditated was that I clearly experienced the half sphere of space in front of me. This space didn't extend for maybe more than a meter from my nose but I clearly noticed it's presence there.
I'm not eagerly waiting to get on the cushion, as was the case two weeks ago, but I try to arrange some 20-40 minutes of sitting every day. I have recently started to focus on my breath to practise concentration, and sofar the results have been motivating: I notice some sort of shift fairly quickly and consistently. After that (or if I'm not succesfull at the shift) I try to note as many sensations as I can. I start with mental notes if I have trouble focusing, but move quickly to just silently noticing stuff as they appear.
I've also noticed for the past two days a more positive and determined attitude towards meditation, both formal on-the-cushion and doing short practices throughout the day.
I regularly walk my dog in a nearby forest that has a decent path with some street lights. We do these walks pretty late, so it's usually dark. Some of the lights are out but I don't really mind as I can manage the familiar way even when it's dark. For the past weeks I've noticed that I've become somewhat scared to walk there when it's dark. I try to be mindful of this situation, and acknowledge what I can actually perceive in the woods, and I also notice how my mind is starting to create all these frightening screnarios. Sometimes I hear various sounds from the dark and my mind tarts to immediately think how someone's there and whether they are coming, or what if there's a rabbit and my dog starts chasing it and I break my leg and the dog gets lost... This goes on and on! I realize that it's just my mind playing tricks, but still don't really feel comfortable being there. The last time I actually decided not to enter the dark part and was just hanging under the last functioning light when it suddenly blacked out
I decided not to enter the woods for a while! After my first freafull walk in the woods I was laying in the bed just about to sleep. I was doing nothing in particular when all of a sudden I realized that my mind had displayed a highly detailed little movie clip of a rotting Venus of Willendorf -like corpse with rotting flesh dropping off of the thing. Later that night I had a dream where I entered a room with a massage table and there was a stiffened, gray corpse there with a crooked body and face that looked like it had screamed in agony. None of these imagenes really felt like anything, I wasn't terrified or scared at all. I just observed what was going on.
When doing formal meditation I have noticed that I get distracted by my thoughts very easily. It takes a longer time for me to realize I'm doing this. Sometimes it even feels like there is a strong current of thought that is just overwhelming me, and there is nothing I can do. On some occations, though, I have also been able to access some sort of jhanic states in between the floods of thought. So it's not all bad, but there are clearly periods when it's harder to keep my mind on the task.
I have been trying to think whether or not my concentration is more panoramic than before, but I'm unsure about this. Could be, but it is hard for me to describe with enough detail at this point. One effect I remember from last time I meditated was that I clearly experienced the half sphere of space in front of me. This space didn't extend for maybe more than a meter from my nose but I clearly noticed it's presence there.
I'm not eagerly waiting to get on the cushion, as was the case two weeks ago, but I try to arrange some 20-40 minutes of sitting every day. I have recently started to focus on my breath to practise concentration, and sofar the results have been motivating: I notice some sort of shift fairly quickly and consistently. After that (or if I'm not succesfull at the shift) I try to note as many sensations as I can. I start with mental notes if I have trouble focusing, but move quickly to just silently noticing stuff as they appear.
I've also noticed for the past two days a more positive and determined attitude towards meditation, both formal on-the-cushion and doing short practices throughout the day.
Florian Weps:
Hi Jehanne
thanks for the report. Textbook stuff really.
thanks for the report. Textbook stuff really.
Hey Florian! I agree it's pretty straight from a book
"I must be in dark night"was the first thing I thought when I realized that I'm actually affraid of the dark. "Holy crap I just saw a rotting corpse!" was my second thought an hour later (ok, there were a few other thoughts in between..) and I actually shouted this outloud to my husband in excitement Florian Weps:
Jhanic stuff like this can be an interesting object for investigation: find out what the cues, the sensations are which indicate that there is "space" in front of you. Which cues are telling you about the extent, the direction, the volume? And so on.
Yes, I'll have to keep looking closely! Yesterday I actually noticed some weird things that seemed to take place prior to some identifiable things. I think I still suck at noticing very fine effects.I don't even know what I really noticed pre-event, only that it seemed to be reddish and round.Yep
I was actually glad I noticed anything at all! For the record, I think I have been able to notice the intention before the breath and then the mental image of the breath only a handful of times.
I sat for 15 minutes yesterday. I remember that I watched thoughts come and go, and they seemed to be in front of me, like I'd taken a step backwards and watch from there as the events took place. There were so many random thoughts that even though I was simply observing them as they occurred, I was still irritated and tired to this whole cirqus. I have a vague recollection that this is also textbook stuff..? I also remember that besides just thoughts, I experienced this visual imaginery of my head moving from one side to another and my mouth opening and closing, much like I was talking. Nothing actually happened physically. The experience was more like I had a ghost-body that was doing a thing of it's own, without me having any part in it. I found this to be sort of interesting and informative!
I also took another walk in the dark woods. I was only really scared before entering the woods, but while in, I was ok. Even when another light suddenly blacked out haha
I also took another walk in the dark woods. I was only really scared before entering the woods, but while in, I was ok. Even when another light suddenly blacked out haha
Time for a brief update. After my last post I quickly moved from DN into what I consider to be very clear equanimity. The DN seemed to last only a few days, with the worst thing literally being the scares in the woods. I stayed in the EQ phase a few weeks maybe. Sitting was effortless and I increased my daily sits from 15-30 minutes to up to 2-3 hours. I'ts been too long to remember any of the details, but the overall feeling was that I was simply OK with everything.
Suddenly I dropped back from EQ. There was an incident in my daily life that may have contributed to this. All I know I was meditating 4-5 hours on Sunday, maybe with some resistance and not-so-OK-feelings, and then on Monday and the following week I didn't sit formally at all.
After this point it was very difficult to say where I was map-wise. I had one night when I was again spooked by the wilderness (..aka the acre of woodland in our suburb..) and after that I had a dream where I understood I was dreaming because the surroundings has such a spectacular sheen to them, after which I was drawn flying into a vortex and woke right up.
I have periods lasting days when I don't meditate. Then there are days when I do. I read a post where somebody had been in EQ->re-observation->EQ->re-ob... -cycle for a long time. I re-read the chapters in MCTB on re-observation and EQ and concluded that I might as well adopt the view that that's where I am. Now I'm trying to get my shit back together and meditate no matter what. No matter how tired or busy or headachy I am! 10 minutes a day is my promise. Already sat 45 minutes yesterday with this new resolution
I do noting. Or maybe I should say, I notice things, but I don't really like to add the mental notes. Not even a smal "dat" because I feel it distrackts me. Sure, I get distracted from being aware quite often actually, but I can rather quickly bring my attention back to the breath while simultaneously being aware of multitude of other things that take place. I'm scratching my head here thinking how to describe my sensate experience while meditating. I'll leave that to some other time!
Suddenly I dropped back from EQ. There was an incident in my daily life that may have contributed to this. All I know I was meditating 4-5 hours on Sunday, maybe with some resistance and not-so-OK-feelings, and then on Monday and the following week I didn't sit formally at all.
After this point it was very difficult to say where I was map-wise. I had one night when I was again spooked by the wilderness (..aka the acre of woodland in our suburb..) and after that I had a dream where I understood I was dreaming because the surroundings has such a spectacular sheen to them, after which I was drawn flying into a vortex and woke right up.
I have periods lasting days when I don't meditate. Then there are days when I do. I read a post where somebody had been in EQ->re-observation->EQ->re-ob... -cycle for a long time. I re-read the chapters in MCTB on re-observation and EQ and concluded that I might as well adopt the view that that's where I am. Now I'm trying to get my shit back together and meditate no matter what. No matter how tired or busy or headachy I am! 10 minutes a day is my promise. Already sat 45 minutes yesterday with this new resolution
I do noting. Or maybe I should say, I notice things, but I don't really like to add the mental notes. Not even a smal "dat" because I feel it distrackts me. Sure, I get distracted from being aware quite often actually, but I can rather quickly bring my attention back to the breath while simultaneously being aware of multitude of other things that take place. I'm scratching my head here thinking how to describe my sensate experience while meditating. I'll leave that to some other time!
Hi Jehanne,
Good. Keep going.
Those "getting distracted, getting back" loops are worth a close look. As contradictory as it sounds, you could try to pay attention during them, if you like. Takes a bit of relaxation, attitude-wise as well as body-wise - the kind of going-with-it that 4th jhana also exhibits - i.e. don't get tensed up mentally upon noticing that you wandered or were distracted. Sounds like you might be doing that already, so just keep doing it. Don't let me confuse you.
Cheers,
Florian
Jehanne S Peacock:
Now I'm trying to get my shit back together and meditate no matter what. No matter how tired or busy or headachy I am! 10 minutes a day is my promise. Already sat 45 minutes yesterday with this new resolution
Good. Keep going.
I do noting. Or maybe I should say, I notice things, but I don't really like to add the mental notes. Not even a smal "dat" because I feel it distrackts me. Sure, I get distracted from being aware quite often actually, but I can rather quickly bring my attention back to the breath while simultaneously being aware of multitude of other things that take place.
Those "getting distracted, getting back" loops are worth a close look. As contradictory as it sounds, you could try to pay attention during them, if you like. Takes a bit of relaxation, attitude-wise as well as body-wise - the kind of going-with-it that 4th jhana also exhibits - i.e. don't get tensed up mentally upon noticing that you wandered or were distracted. Sounds like you might be doing that already, so just keep doing it. Don't let me confuse you.
Cheers,
Florian
Florian Weps:
Those "getting distracted, getting back" loops are worth a close look. As contradictory as it sounds, you could try to pay attention during them, if you like. Takes a bit of relaxation, attitude-wise as well as body-wise - the kind of going-with-it that 4th jhana also exhibits - i.e. don't get tensed up mentally upon noticing that you wandered or were distracted. Sounds like you might be doing that already, so just keep doing it. Don't let me confuse you.
I think I kind of know what you might mean here. I feel like part of my mind is onborad the whole time the distraction happens. Of course it depends on the occasion. But typically I'm not stressing about it or tensing. However, now that I keep thinking about it, I think there is still a tiny bit of annoyance of not being able to hold my attention in all the time as diligently as "I should". But I'm only maybe 5% annoyed about this, does it make sense?
The other night while meditating I remember that I had these visual sensations flickering at a constant rate of maybe a few hertz. I realized again that these are probably the vibrations. I keep forgetting what is meant by "sensing vibrations" and seem to think I don't experience them. Now I remembered that I probably do. This flickering had an annoying quality to it, like mental noise or something similarly irritating.
I have also quite often (nearly daily) on the cushion these spontaneus body movements, where suddenly my upper body jerks forwards a bit. It just happens, there is no pre-warning or body sensation preceeding it that I am aware of. It is different than when I have a bad position, an I find that occasionally I correct that position only to realize afterwards that I was supposed to just note it, not do anything about it.
I'm facinated by the idea of looking into what sensations are telling me about the sense of space around me (as suggested by Florian in some previous post in this log). It seems absurd that someone can actually sense something other that "It feels like there is space around me", but I want to learn how to see it.
I had a dream where I was listening to some synthesizer sounds that had very open, spacious, feeling in them. I realized that it is just sound, the "spaceness" is coming from that auditory output, nothing else. I found that this could help me in seeing more closely the sensations that make up space etc. while meditating.
Hi Jehanne,
5% annoyance ... heh Notice/note/explore/be with/observe/experience it in a relaxed way. Also notice in the same way the interest in quantifying or even minimizing the annoyance.
The space-implying sensations are fascinating to play with! One thing I find cool to do when some "point" or area within the implied volume is somehow more interesting (because it is associated with the location of some sensation maybe), to move attention back and forth along the imaginary line between that point and "this side", and do explore how the sense of distance and movement is implied when doing this.
Or whatever. Seems like you are doing fine. Keep going!
Cheers,
Florian
5% annoyance ... heh
Notice/note/explore/be with/observe/experience it in a relaxed way. Also notice in the same way the interest in quantifying or even minimizing the annoyance.The space-implying sensations are fascinating to play with! One thing I find cool to do when some "point" or area within the implied volume is somehow more interesting (because it is associated with the location of some sensation maybe), to move attention back and forth along the imaginary line between that point and "this side", and do explore how the sense of distance and movement is implied when doing this.
Or whatever. Seems like you are doing fine. Keep going!
Cheers,
Florian
I think I'm getting back into equanimity territory again, after my fall from there previously this summer. This is just initial speculation based mostly on the fact that it has been easier to get more sitting time done lately. We'll see how it turns out in the future. I must say, however, that it took a lot more time to climb back up the latter after my fall then I somehow thought. Had I known this, I would have kept a daily practise going on for those two weeks that I slacked and didn't sit formally at all... I promise to do better next time ;)
Anyhow!
The reason for this update was mostly to record a nice thing that occurred during yesterdays sit (only 15 minutes this time, I have been sitting several times a day 20-30 minutes at a time). I sat down to do some noting (I actually decided to do the actual notes, as I tried it once and was apparently served with much finer sensations to note as a result. Basically I do on-and-off noting and just noticing currently) and let my focus rest on the sensations that make up the blackness/space/surrounding volume that was there. I couldn't really say what I was sensing, despite the blackness, until I noticed a slow pulsation centered somewhere around the left bottom corner of my visual field. This was going on at around once per second or slower. It was as if the space itself was vibrating somehow allthought I didn't "feel" the space physically in the same sense as I have felt during some "peak"experience, but this is the best I know how to describe it!
I got interested and wanted to explore it more closely. "What the hell is this thing?" I was thinking. Then I apparently broke my concentration a little, and noticed that the pulsating was in the same rythm as my breath. HA! I had noticed my breath in the abstract, continuously-flowing, counterpart-image samadhi -style! Or at least this I how I imagine it goes
I then decided to will myself to higher jhanas, and probably was able to access the second, maybe even the third.
This was cool to me, because I haven't lately been able to get into jhana even if I've tried. And now it happened without the effort. Although I was trying to do noting...
Anyhow!
The reason for this update was mostly to record a nice thing that occurred during yesterdays sit (only 15 minutes this time, I have been sitting several times a day 20-30 minutes at a time). I sat down to do some noting (I actually decided to do the actual notes, as I tried it once and was apparently served with much finer sensations to note as a result. Basically I do on-and-off noting and just noticing currently) and let my focus rest on the sensations that make up the blackness/space/surrounding volume that was there. I couldn't really say what I was sensing, despite the blackness, until I noticed a slow pulsation centered somewhere around the left bottom corner of my visual field. This was going on at around once per second or slower. It was as if the space itself was vibrating somehow allthought I didn't "feel" the space physically in the same sense as I have felt during some "peak"experience, but this is the best I know how to describe it!
I got interested and wanted to explore it more closely. "What the hell is this thing?" I was thinking. Then I apparently broke my concentration a little, and noticed that the pulsating was in the same rythm as my breath. HA! I had noticed my breath in the abstract, continuously-flowing, counterpart-image samadhi -style! Or at least this I how I imagine it goes
I then decided to will myself to higher jhanas, and probably was able to access the second, maybe even the third.
This was cool to me, because I haven't lately been able to get into jhana even if I've tried. And now it happened without the effort. Although I was trying to do noting...
Jehanne S Peacock:
I got interested and wanted to explore it more closely. "What the hell is this thing?" I was thinking. Then I apparently broke my concentration a little, and noticed that the pulsating was in the same rythm as my breath. HA! I had noticed my breath in the abstract, continuously-flowing, counterpart-image samadhi -style! Or at least this I how I imagine it goes
Did some reading and aparently the counterpart image (nimitta) is supposed to be something visual in case of the breath. So never mind what I said before...
In any case the pulsation keeps on coming. Yesterday it began some 5 seconds into my cushion time. I checked that it wasn't my breath and not my heartbeat. It was about 1 Hz, smooth pulsating feeling on the bottom of my "mental canvas", maybe this time it felt a bit more like it was something happenin in my body, on the chest/neck area.
The overall feeling in this sitting was that the mind was somehow extra clear and crisp almost the entire time.
Ok, I just had to mention that your corpse dreams sounded very familiar. Like, they aren't even scary, more like "Really? This is just a little mellodramatic..." Haha, good times.
Edit: BTW, I love your name.
Edit: BTW, I love your name.
Not Tao:
Ok, I just had to mention that your corpse dreams sounded very familiar. Like, they aren't even scary, more like "Really? This is just a little mellodramatic..." Haha, good times.
Funny how they seem to be sort of iconic, many people have these quite similar images appear at similar stages of insight... Actually I think that's just very cool!
And even though no fear or disgust was attached to these images, I have experienced fear arise independently. So the mind does have the tendency to display all sorts of shows. It helps a lot to just realize that these things are going on on their own, and not give them any more meaning than that.
Not Tao:
Edit: BTW, I love your name.
Haha, thanks
After my struggle and resolution to keep sitting no matter what, things have improved somewhat. I'm fairly certain I had moved back to EQ, and indeed my sits have become longer in duration. Now I often sit half an hour, whereas it used to be 10 minutes some weeks/moths ago. Even if I'm ofterwise "busy" and set the timer to 15 min, I usually end up doubling that time after the bell. Also sitting is much more comfortable and I can sit the whole time without any discomfort. I observe some involutary body swaying occasionally, but it is just spontaneous and not related to any discomfort. I think I also noticed a few times clearly going through the stages of insight: body discomfort for 3C's, tingling and pleasantness for A&P, then some weird stuff I identified with DN, and then very clear EQ.
What started as EQ-peacefullnes has recently taken another feeling. I'm not sure anymore where I am. I have so much thoughts coming in all the time, and it seems my concentration on the task at hand has gone down. I keep guiding my attention back to noticing stuff as they appear and disappear, the feelings of space and the feelings of being aware, but friggin' 3 seconds later I'm thinking enthusiastically what to do for dinner or work stuff. Regardless, I think I'm doing the thing I'm supposed to be doing and there's not much else for me to do. I don't mean to complain as I have a matter-of-factly attitude towards these interuptions. It seems that this is the way mind works, period. So it's ok.
I have noticed a sort of equanomous attitude towards emotions. Example no. 1 from regular life: I found a dead month in my kitchen and picked it up to throw it away. I sensed strong repulsion several times (those stiff tiny but huge legs ugghh! and the furry sausage-body!!1), but somehow I wasn't repulsed. Like the repulsion didn't have an effect on me, even though it was there. No face flinching or anything. Just some pulses of "there's the repulsion again" but not affected in any way. Except that every time that feeling arose, my ears would go clogged/plugged/temporarily deaf (hope somebody gets what I'm aiming at here, I lack the correct english term), which normally I don't experience when feeling repulsion. That was interesting!
Example no. 2 was when doing formal sitting. I had this sensationof going really really fast, like ultra speed space ship, and I noticed a srong feeling of being afraid that I would get bugs in my mouth while flying (). But at the same time I wasn't actually afraid at all, I would just feel that a sensation "afraid" was present, but it couldn't get to me.
What started as EQ-peacefullnes has recently taken another feeling. I'm not sure anymore where I am. I have so much thoughts coming in all the time, and it seems my concentration on the task at hand has gone down. I keep guiding my attention back to noticing stuff as they appear and disappear, the feelings of space and the feelings of being aware, but friggin' 3 seconds later I'm thinking enthusiastically what to do for dinner or work stuff. Regardless, I think I'm doing the thing I'm supposed to be doing and there's not much else for me to do. I don't mean to complain as I have a matter-of-factly attitude towards these interuptions. It seems that this is the way mind works, period. So it's ok.
I have noticed a sort of equanomous attitude towards emotions. Example no. 1 from regular life: I found a dead month in my kitchen and picked it up to throw it away. I sensed strong repulsion several times (those stiff tiny but huge legs ugghh! and the furry sausage-body!!1), but somehow I wasn't repulsed. Like the repulsion didn't have an effect on me, even though it was there. No face flinching or anything. Just some pulses of "there's the repulsion again" but not affected in any way. Except that every time that feeling arose, my ears would go clogged/plugged/temporarily deaf (hope somebody gets what I'm aiming at here, I lack the correct english term), which normally I don't experience when feeling repulsion. That was interesting!
Example no. 2 was when doing formal sitting. I had this sensationof going really really fast, like ultra speed space ship, and I noticed a srong feeling of being afraid that I would get bugs in my mouth while flying (
). But at the same time I wasn't actually afraid at all, I would just feel that a sensation "afraid" was present, but it couldn't get to me.
I decided to post when a year and a day has passed since my last post. We're almost there, but the time to post seems to be now. Actually I'm not sure what to write as it is completely unclear to me what I want to achieve with this. Main motivation seems to be to actually help others, and while I have been thinking about this for almost a year, it is very uncelar to me still how to actually be of any help to anybody. The only thing I've come up with, is to share some bits of my story and hope it provides the correct encouragement to those in need.
What happened sometime last fall was that somebody how knows me very well said to me quite bluntly "what the hell are you talking about achieving stream entry? You're obviously way past that already!" I realized that yes, based on the knowledge I've obtained about all the states and stages and whatnot, I can't really seriuously think that I would be pre-stream entry. And this conlucion has stayed with me ever since then.
Around that time I also had a very strong realization that I alone am responsible for my development and in some very profound way I cannot be helped by anyone. I can read stuff from other people, sure, but reading is not the same as actually having stuff happening in me. I lost my obsession to read the dho and related stuff. I also stopped sitting on a regular basis. I feel more like I'm in a constant state of being aware of all the sensations. So it's more like I'm meditating constantly. I do sit formally from time to time, and it does feel appropriate.
I also finally got what was the talk about noself, and I might formulate my current state easily by saying that I don't think there is anybody there making the doing. I'm perfectly happily letting everything unfold as it does. One of the high-points that fall related to the noself-stuff was a talk by Krishnamurti, Bohm et al. where a quote "there is no security" by Krishnamurti really resonated with me (the video is probably this one, for those interested in the series https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wYjb_5oRdg).
Now I'm just feeling pretty damn good, even though I do feel pretty damn bad some days
I liked very much this post by Fitter: Phenomenology of "3rd path" - response to Daniel. It had a similar feel to it as the kind I'm feeling.
I feel like I am not searching or aiming actively for anything right now. I'm just very neutrally content with what I am having, and I wish the same for others. I know first hand how utterly useless any advice is in the midst of all sorts of emotional turmoil. I have been given the excact same advice in the middle of difficulties and at times when I am able to get it, and I have not been able to get any help from that advice during difficult times - at least not directly, not in the manner that I had hoped that advice should have helped me ;)
That's about all that I have to say at this point. Best of luck, happiness and such to everyone
What happened sometime last fall was that somebody how knows me very well said to me quite bluntly "what the hell are you talking about achieving stream entry? You're obviously way past that already!" I realized that yes, based on the knowledge I've obtained about all the states and stages and whatnot, I can't really seriuously think that I would be pre-stream entry. And this conlucion has stayed with me ever since then.
Around that time I also had a very strong realization that I alone am responsible for my development and in some very profound way I cannot be helped by anyone. I can read stuff from other people, sure, but reading is not the same as actually having stuff happening in me. I lost my obsession to read the dho and related stuff. I also stopped sitting on a regular basis. I feel more like I'm in a constant state of being aware of all the sensations. So it's more like I'm meditating constantly. I do sit formally from time to time, and it does feel appropriate.
I also finally got what was the talk about noself, and I might formulate my current state easily by saying that I don't think there is anybody there making the doing. I'm perfectly happily letting everything unfold as it does. One of the high-points that fall related to the noself-stuff was a talk by Krishnamurti, Bohm et al. where a quote "there is no security" by Krishnamurti really resonated with me (the video is probably this one, for those interested in the series https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wYjb_5oRdg).
Now I'm just feeling pretty damn good, even though I do feel pretty damn bad some days
I liked very much this post by Fitter: Phenomenology of "3rd path" - response to Daniel. It had a similar feel to it as the kind I'm feeling.
I feel like I am not searching or aiming actively for anything right now. I'm just very neutrally content with what I am having, and I wish the same for others. I know first hand how utterly useless any advice is in the midst of all sorts of emotional turmoil. I have been given the excact same advice in the middle of difficulties and at times when I am able to get it, and I have not been able to get any help from that advice during difficult times - at least not directly, not in the manner that I had hoped that advice should have helped me ;)
That's about all that I have to say at this point. Best of luck, happiness and such to everyone
I think I've mentioned here previously that I have a hard time grasping what people actually mean when they talk about self and no-self. I think I've recently come to an understanding regarding these concepts. This understanding has more to do with understanding what people refer to when they say various things than my own view of myself and awakening. To say it in different terms, I think I've been in the no-self mode for years now. But only now has it really dawned on me how my experience translates into language. To give an example I've had a hard time understanding what Daniel Ingram means when he speaks about sensations" here" and sensations "over there". I could sort of understand but this just didn't quite click for me. When I stumbled upon Loch Kelly and listened to some of his talks and some pointers/ glimpses of heart awareness, I recognized that my main mode of being has been this heart awareness, not being identified with a "watcher inside my head who is doing things". In this state there is no me, no sensations here and other sensations there, it's all kinda the same and "things happening where they are" to quote Daniel.
I've thought previously that I haven't really gained any permanent shifts since I still manage to get into ugly fights with my loved ones occasionally and seem to loose what ever good I've gained momentarily. However, I just realized that even during the nastiest fights I'm actually observing the situation from this outside perspective, from this awareness. Heck I even talk about it during the figh, but for some reason it's not really helping the situation
So even though the situation stirs me up physically, there is a part that is not strirred, this awareness thing. That was a pretty cool thing to realize. I need to keep working on the other mundane aspects though. You know, not being a dick!
If I understand correctly this thing is called rigpa in Tibetan buddhism. I'm not sure if I meet their qualifications excatly. On one hand I'm not really into trying to define stuff rigorously in these matters and on the other hand I have not looked at myself from this perspective for long. I'm pretty confident in asserting that I'm never in an "identifying with a separate self" -sort of mode however.
Life is just generally very good and I feel done. Yet I have not had any clear shifts that I can remember. I don't know what a fruition is. I don't know if I mentioned this here previously, but one time I wondered wether I've had a fruition: I was standing at the cashier in a grocery store watching my groceries on the conveyor belt. I was waching the whole time and suddenly all my stuff was half a meter more forward than it had just been. I didn't notice anything else. I tried checking for bliss wave, but if it was there it was just minibliss, maybe caused by the excitment of possible fruition. Regardless of any fruitions or not, I'm happy the way I am now, so now nagging underlying uncertainties there.
I'm just reporting in the hope that maybe some day someone will find this useful!
-J
I've thought previously that I haven't really gained any permanent shifts since I still manage to get into ugly fights with my loved ones occasionally and seem to loose what ever good I've gained momentarily. However, I just realized that even during the nastiest fights I'm actually observing the situation from this outside perspective, from this awareness. Heck I even talk about it during the figh, but for some reason it's not really helping the situation
So even though the situation stirs me up physically, there is a part that is not strirred, this awareness thing. That was a pretty cool thing to realize. I need to keep working on the other mundane aspects though. You know, not being a dick!If I understand correctly this thing is called rigpa in Tibetan buddhism. I'm not sure if I meet their qualifications excatly. On one hand I'm not really into trying to define stuff rigorously in these matters and on the other hand I have not looked at myself from this perspective for long. I'm pretty confident in asserting that I'm never in an "identifying with a separate self" -sort of mode however.
Life is just generally very good and I feel done. Yet I have not had any clear shifts that I can remember. I don't know what a fruition is. I don't know if I mentioned this here previously, but one time I wondered wether I've had a fruition: I was standing at the cashier in a grocery store watching my groceries on the conveyor belt. I was waching the whole time and suddenly all my stuff was half a meter more forward than it had just been. I didn't notice anything else. I tried checking for bliss wave, but if it was there it was just minibliss, maybe caused by the excitment of possible fruition. Regardless of any fruitions or not, I'm happy the way I am now, so now nagging underlying uncertainties there.
I'm just reporting in the hope that maybe some day someone will find this useful!
-J
For the past week or two I've been doing formal guru yoga meditation (16th Karmapa as I've been taught). Off the cushion every time I remember I create the same visualization and receive the blessings of the Om A Hung syllabels.
I notice varioous things when doing the practise.
-Occasionally when silently repeating the mantra it feels a though there is a whole choire of monks chanting with me
-I realized that I tend to visualize seeing my body and the Guru as a third person perspective. I tried vizualizing from the point of view of my own eyes as well. That was different, obviously, but I'm not sure that either of the methods is the preferred one.
-I noticed I had skipped the part where I visualize my head, throat and chest filled with the colored lights. Doing it felt super effective, but I notice later that I still forget it do it almost always.
While sleeping I have been seeing these vivid moving geometric patterns I remember I described also some time before here They are black and white with some green/reddish hues, like seeing white illuminated by colored lights. I googled a bit at found that these might be related to some hypnagocic state before enetering sleep. I thought this was pretty cool because I've been trying to cultivate more awareness when going to sleep. I usually fall asleep so quickly I don't even realize that I'm falling asleep. I've been trying to culvtivate that.
The other night I had a dream about some pirate ship under attack. Afterwards I felt like I was awake but was having these vivid thoughts about being in the water and had some fear of a sharks. I then confronted the fear and decided instead to imagine as vividly as I could how it would feel like to be eaten alive by a shark. Very soon, after I had barely begun this excercise, I found myself having these geometric visuals again! They reappeared also later that night, but I can't remember any details.
Also for the past months or so I have been seeing almost constantly these moving small dots of light every time I look at the blue sky.
Today I'm fighting with a lot of cynicism and resentment towards all things so I'll just stop here and go do something useful, like some Guru yoga
I notice varioous things when doing the practise.
-Occasionally when silently repeating the mantra it feels a though there is a whole choire of monks chanting with me
-I realized that I tend to visualize seeing my body and the Guru as a third person perspective. I tried vizualizing from the point of view of my own eyes as well. That was different, obviously, but I'm not sure that either of the methods is the preferred one.
-I noticed I had skipped the part where I visualize my head, throat and chest filled with the colored lights. Doing it felt super effective, but I notice later that I still forget it do it almost always.
While sleeping I have been seeing these vivid moving geometric patterns I remember I described also some time before here They are black and white with some green/reddish hues, like seeing white illuminated by colored lights. I googled a bit at found that these might be related to some hypnagocic state before enetering sleep. I thought this was pretty cool because I've been trying to cultivate more awareness when going to sleep. I usually fall asleep so quickly I don't even realize that I'm falling asleep. I've been trying to culvtivate that.
The other night I had a dream about some pirate ship under attack. Afterwards I felt like I was awake but was having these vivid thoughts about being in the water and had some fear of a sharks. I then confronted the fear and decided instead to imagine as vividly as I could how it would feel like to be eaten alive by a shark. Very soon, after I had barely begun this excercise, I found myself having these geometric visuals again! They reappeared also later that night, but I can't remember any details.
Also for the past months or so I have been seeing almost constantly these moving small dots of light every time I look at the blue sky.
Today I'm fighting with a lot of cynicism and resentment towards all things so I'll just stop here and go do something useful, like some Guru yoga
shargrol:
Cool! For what it's worth, I would say it's not particularly useful to see attention as being "wrong" in some way. Rather it's another mind object, albeit a sublte one that takes very strong practice to see.
shargrol:
Ultimately, the controlling and effort of it is probably more from the identification with it, rather than attention itself controlling or efforting. Reality continues to arise the way it will, including moments of attention, including sensations that feel like we direct attention... but ultimately what attention "is" falls within the middle path -- neither no self or all self, neither no control or all control, neither no effort or all effort, etc.
The main point in seeing it is not really to get rid of it, but rather to be clearer that attention, which normally feels very much like self, also has a not-self side to it.
The main point in seeing it is not really to get rid of it, but rather to be clearer that attention, which normally feels very much like self, also has a not-self side to it.
But you made an interesting point about the identification! Some subtle identification might actually be taking place in attention, and not in the awareness. That's maybe why the "only awareness" state felt so nice
It has actually dawned on me quite clearly that that I am not in control of anything, not my intentions or my attention or anything. But that does not feel accurate, either. I haven't really put into words how I view these things..
Been lurking and reading Jehanne's log for a while
Intention (one-dimensional) - Attention (three-dimensional) - Awareness (zero-dimensional/beyond dimensionality)
I feel these three are a continuum. They are both practices and principles. In intention and attention there is effort which are absent from awareness. I feel it is the effort which make the two former feel burdensome. That effort begins to feel something extra and needless the more awareness becomes flesh. But because the mess is great and compulsive, is the reason why the principles of intention and attention are needed and useful.
Awareness is home. As the Tibetans I've called it rigpa but it is foreign language which brings in the element of "Ooh, something mystical and exalted". Therefore, I've used it with mixed feelings
Anyway, I think too much emphasis on "emptiness", "transparency" and "no qualities" can and does actually give artificial colouring to the experience itself. Yes, awareness is empty of self and transparent but it is also brimming with life. Being aware is like living in a jungle, in a rain forest. There is so much life in a rain forest! Alive! As is rigpa. Not dead, not dull, not blank. If we connect with awareness from the head space only, it is clear, transparent and pronouncedly empty of self. But the aspect of aliveness, or love, makes a connection with the rest of the body, especially the heart space, without excluding the head. Head and heart together. Clarity and aliveness joined. Manjushri and Avalokiteshvara having a party together. Good music, dancing, enjoying, some drinks and tasty food
Some scribblings of mine in reg. to different doorways to rigpa.
Intention (one-dimensional) - Attention (three-dimensional) - Awareness (zero-dimensional/beyond dimensionality)
I feel these three are a continuum. They are both practices and principles. In intention and attention there is effort which are absent from awareness. I feel it is the effort which make the two former feel burdensome. That effort begins to feel something extra and needless the more awareness becomes flesh. But because the mess is great and compulsive, is the reason why the principles of intention and attention are needed and useful.
Awareness is home. As the Tibetans I've called it rigpa but it is foreign language which brings in the element of "Ooh, something mystical and exalted". Therefore, I've used it with mixed feelings
Anyway, I think too much emphasis on "emptiness", "transparency" and "no qualities" can and does actually give artificial colouring to the experience itself. Yes, awareness is empty of self and transparent but it is also brimming with life. Being aware is like living in a jungle, in a rain forest. There is so much life in a rain forest! Alive! As is rigpa. Not dead, not dull, not blank. If we connect with awareness from the head space only, it is clear, transparent and pronouncedly empty of self. But the aspect of aliveness, or love, makes a connection with the rest of the body, especially the heart space, without excluding the head. Head and heart together. Clarity and aliveness joined. Manjushri and Avalokiteshvara having a party together. Good music, dancing, enjoying, some drinks and tasty food
Some scribblings of mine in reg. to different doorways to rigpa.
Kim Katami:
Intention (one-dimensional) - Attention (three-dimensional) - Awareness (zero-dimensional/beyond dimensionality)
I feel these three are a continuum. They are both practices and principles. In intention and attention there is effort which are absent from awareness. I feel it is the effort which make the two former feel burdensome. That effort begins to feel something extra and needless the more awareness becomes flesh. But because the mess is great and compulsive, is the reason why the principles of intention and attention are needed and useful.
This is the feeling I'm also getting from my experience, although very subtly and it's not like I am hanging around in this nice "awareness space" all the time! But slowly getting there!
I didn't quite understand your last sentence, though.
Getting rid of control and effort have definately been the key terms defining and describing my practice! They nicely team up with patience, which is another favourite virtue of mine
Kim Katami:
Awareness is home. As the Tibetans I've called it rigpa but it is foreign language which brings in the element of "Ooh, something mystical and exalted". Therefore, I've used it with mixed feelings
Anyway, I think too much emphasis on "emptiness", "transparency" and "no qualities" can and does actually give artificial colouring to the experience itself. Yes, awareness is empty of self and transparent but it is also brimming with life. Being aware is like living in a jungle, in a rain forest. There is so much life in a rain forest! Alive! As is rigpa. Not dead, not dull, not blank. If we connect with awareness from the head space only, it is clear, transparent and pronouncedly empty of self. But the aspect of aliveness, or love, makes a connection with the rest of the body, especially the heart space, without excluding the head. Head and heart together. Clarity and aliveness joined. Manjushri and Avalokiteshvara having a party together. Good music, dancing, enjoying, some drinks and tasty food
Some scribblings of mine in reg. to different doorways to rigpa.
Sounds good!
I've read the linked post before and found it quite useful. I've been trying to connect to all three of the doorways in succession during my sits. It's nice how finding something written out like this, in clear concepts, can help one's practise in a very concrete way. Thank you!Another practice note:
After my previous fantastic sit I ofcourse had an absolute shit session right after that, hehe. Well, this morning was a bit better already from the start. I still wasn't quite so clearly in the "clear awareness, not so much caring about attention" sort of space. But then I remembered my old friend 16th Karmapa and opened up welcoming him. Immediately it was like a veil of darkness had been lifted. I could actually feel it being raised from my feet over my head. It was wonderful, just as Kim described, clear and lively and lovely. And that was due to relaxing effort and needs and stuff like that, just surrendering.
Jehanne S Peacock:
...It's nice how finding something written out like this, in clear concepts, can help one's practise in a very concrete way. Thank you!
You're welcome
We did some workshopping today on these topics. Maybe it's helpful as well.
I think I'm in A&P territory. Interest in powers/telephathy/dreams/weird stuff, sleeping less, feeling energetic. Last night I awoke after 4 hours of sleep and decided to meditate sitting in my bed. After snacking and reading a bit I decided to try a little dream incubation. So I asked to be taken in a dream to a teacher that can show me some truth that will aid my practise. I didn't catch sleep until maybe two hours later. What I saw:
I was in a zoo, in some sort of a concrete pen with a water element in it. I was there with a raging elephant, running away and jumping trying to get out of it's way. At least twice I was able to ride the elephant. What I did then was skratch him behind his ears, hoping to sooth him. I wasn't sure in the dream if he liked or not, but it felt like the only thing I knew how to do in the situation. I din't feel fear, but I was worried and imagined vividly what it would be like to be crushed by the elephant.
After I woke up, I asked to have another dream to clarify the first one. I did have a second dream but unfortunately I couldn't remember it even right after waking up from it.
Curiously, I'm listening to the "Seth speaks" audio book linked by Tom Moylan. In this mornings episode, chapter 9, there was a mention of dreams, animals, and the meaning of what one is doing to/with the animal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ7opNSutQU&index=10&list=PLEi01rSbHli_s9EnECvsfc6_Ylb42j5jA around 25-37 minutes.
Happy to hear any interpretation anyone is willing to offer
I was in a zoo, in some sort of a concrete pen with a water element in it. I was there with a raging elephant, running away and jumping trying to get out of it's way. At least twice I was able to ride the elephant. What I did then was skratch him behind his ears, hoping to sooth him. I wasn't sure in the dream if he liked or not, but it felt like the only thing I knew how to do in the situation. I din't feel fear, but I was worried and imagined vividly what it would be like to be crushed by the elephant.
After I woke up, I asked to have another dream to clarify the first one. I did have a second dream but unfortunately I couldn't remember it even right after waking up from it.
Curiously, I'm listening to the "Seth speaks" audio book linked by Tom Moylan. In this mornings episode, chapter 9, there was a mention of dreams, animals, and the meaning of what one is doing to/with the animal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ7opNSutQU&index=10&list=PLEi01rSbHli_s9EnECvsfc6_Ylb42j5jA around 25-37 minutes.
Happy to hear any interpretation anyone is willing to offer
My practice has evolved from guru yoga to a combination consisting of visualizations, mantras, chakra techniques and ati yoga since I received the proper initiation couple of weeks ago. So far I've enjoyed the new practice (still doing some guru yoga occasionally) and have only one notable effect to report: The second the initiation was over I noticed a really severe jaw pain / muscle crap on my chewing muscles. This has persisted, not all the time so noticable, but became worse again today after a formal sit. Also my back muscles have been really blocked and sore even though I haven't done any training that might have caused that. So I searched the forum and came up with the Three Characteristics stage! Sounds familiar so maybe that's where I'm at, assuming that things keep correlating to any meaningfull degree when following a different system then what MCTB is about.
Another funny thing was that when I moved on to read about the next stage, A&P, immediately along with the description of the stage my jaw pain and muscles tensions literally melted away. After some minutes, they came back, but I seem to have gotten another solid dose of mind affecting matter. This also reminds me of an old thread where Tarin Greco said
Another thing that might be relevant to mapping and stages is that yesterday I remember being painfully embarrassed about hinting about any progress made this fall as I felt no progress has been made and I was just being stupid. Some DN stuff maybe? So, if anything, I'm all over the place and have nothing more to say about it than "Well, there you go! "
Despite the pains and aches the sits have been pleasant and concentration has been relatively strong.
Also enoying still a lot the Seth material linked by Tom Moylan on another thread. A lot of talk about mind affecting matter accross time and space. I stongly resonate with this type of stuff.
Another funny thing was that when I moved on to read about the next stage, A&P, immediately along with the description of the stage my jaw pain and muscles tensions literally melted away. After some minutes, they came back, but I seem to have gotten another solid dose of mind affecting matter. This also reminds me of an old thread where Tarin Greco said
are you starting to get the sense that any place in the cycles can lead to any other place? if so, it may be telling of something. where is it that you must be, right now, if no matter where you are, you can get anywhere else from there directly? hint: it's only ever one possible place.
"Despite the pains and aches the sits have been pleasant and concentration has been relatively strong.
Also enoying still a lot the Seth material linked by Tom Moylan on another thread. A lot of talk about mind affecting matter accross time and space. I stongly resonate with this type of stuff.
I've had some trouble finding sitting time the past few weeks. Life in general might have had a slightly crappy tone. I think that might have passed now. Sitting feels the same as when it was going good and steady before the difficulties.
Some dream stuff that's probably only interesting to me (I wish there was an option to make some log entries private): I have this recurring theme in my dreams where I'm supposed to do some traveling by flight or train or whatever and I'm always running late and hurrying and everything turning up wrong. Well this time it was the same thing. The inital phase was that my flight to Thailand was leaving in an hour. Driving time to the airport is the same and I've not even packed yet and naturally I've lost my passport. This time I was flying with a friend and actually the dream took a whole new turn. I told my friend to go get my passport from my other bag and suddenly I reread the ticket and the flight was actually leaving in 8 hours instead of one, so now I had the chance to actually pack my stuff! All was well
The reason I find this of interest is that I read somewhere interesting stuff about taking control in one's dreams and changing the obvious course of things. This dream was in no way lucid, but it was remarkable how differently it turned out.
I also had another dream last night... I strangled a baby bear with my bare hands. I was probably trying to attack me, maybe it was bigger when it did that, but it was guinea pig sized when it died. I remember how all the tendons and veins around it's neck felt when pressing them. I then cooked it to eat. I remember trying to cut the head off but it was not there anymore. I remember being very respectful towards the animal while cutting the cooked meat to eat. And now I'm still upset about the dream on some level.
Some dream stuff that's probably only interesting to me (I wish there was an option to make some log entries private): I have this recurring theme in my dreams where I'm supposed to do some traveling by flight or train or whatever and I'm always running late and hurrying and everything turning up wrong. Well this time it was the same thing. The inital phase was that my flight to Thailand was leaving in an hour. Driving time to the airport is the same and I've not even packed yet and naturally I've lost my passport. This time I was flying with a friend and actually the dream took a whole new turn. I told my friend to go get my passport from my other bag and suddenly I reread the ticket and the flight was actually leaving in 8 hours instead of one, so now I had the chance to actually pack my stuff! All was well
The reason I find this of interest is that I read somewhere interesting stuff about taking control in one's dreams and changing the obvious course of things. This dream was in no way lucid, but it was remarkable how differently it turned out.
I also had another dream last night... I strangled a baby bear with my bare hands. I was probably trying to attack me, maybe it was bigger when it did that, but it was guinea pig sized when it died. I remember how all the tendons and veins around it's neck felt when pressing them. I then cooked it to eat. I remember trying to cut the head off but it was not there anymore. I remember being very respectful towards the animal while cutting the cooked meat to eat. And now I'm still upset about the dream on some level.
For what it's worth, that does sound kind of dark-night-y, but also just an accurate description of humans. 
If you wanted to put a label on what you are feeling, I associate that kind of "caught in a strange world" feeling as typical of the "Desire for Deliverance" nana: the state-like feeling of wanting to get out of this and find a place that is more supportive of our practice goals. Unfortunately, it's close friend is Reobservation of course, which is the sense that nothing is going to work, we're doomed, there is no hope...
Bummer that work is like that, but also remember that an option is just to remember "everyone is the heir to their karma" -- people are always a little or a lot messed up, but that doesn't mean it will drag you down. Sometimes their problems are just THEIR problems.
A big part of practice is being aware of the madhouse around you, but not letting it affect you. Hard to do when we become more sensitive and aware and compassionate through practice, but --- to use coarse language --- sometimes you need to say to yourself "it doesn't do anybody any good if I let myself get wrapped up and mixed up with this shit." So you notice what is occuring but you don't let yourself get sucked in.
So basically I probably I could have just said, I totally agree with what you wrote!
Best wishes Jehanne!
If you wanted to put a label on what you are feeling, I associate that kind of "caught in a strange world" feeling as typical of the "Desire for Deliverance" nana: the state-like feeling of wanting to get out of this and find a place that is more supportive of our practice goals. Unfortunately, it's close friend is Reobservation of course, which is the sense that nothing is going to work, we're doomed, there is no hope...
Bummer that work is like that, but also remember that an option is just to remember "everyone is the heir to their karma" -- people are always a little or a lot messed up, but that doesn't mean it will drag you down. Sometimes their problems are just THEIR problems.
A big part of practice is being aware of the madhouse around you, but not letting it affect you. Hard to do when we become more sensitive and aware and compassionate through practice, but --- to use coarse language --- sometimes you need to say to yourself "it doesn't do anybody any good if I let myself get wrapped up and mixed up with this shit." So you notice what is occuring but you don't let yourself get sucked in.
So basically I probably I could have just said, I totally agree with what you wrote!
Best wishes Jehanne!
Thank you Shargol for your supportive answer
Your absolutely right about the stuff you say. People are like that, geez!
What has more precisely struck me hard this time is how much all this has an effect on me, dragging me down, while I absolutely have observed the madness in all it's glory for years, and am actually pretty decent on not letting it get to me. But now it has really been a bit overwhelming...
I'm actually feeling a lot better now, partly maybe because I got that out of my chest, partly because I went to see a really cool art exhibition that almost seemed to heal my soul while I was staying there. Felt a lot of energetic stuff also while meditating there. Really happy that I went
Your absolutely right about the stuff you say. People are like that, geez!
What has more precisely struck me hard this time is how much all this has an effect on me, dragging me down, while I absolutely have observed the madness in all it's glory for years, and am actually pretty decent on not letting it get to me. But now it has really been a bit overwhelming...
I'm actually feeling a lot better now, partly maybe because I got that out of my chest, partly because I went to see a really cool art exhibition that almost seemed to heal my soul while I was staying there. Felt a lot of energetic stuff also while meditating there. Really happy that I went
A couple of nice moments in the sleep yoga area that I'd like to record! Typically I can't sustain my awareness and fall aspeel quite quickly without really noticing. One time however, there was a nice instance of perfect alertness and clarity after falling asleep (without noticing) that lasted a short while. So while I did loose my clarity, I managed to" reclarify" my mind for a while. I sensed blackness, some thing in the corner of the visual field and a feeling of the most beautiful awareness and clarity. No particular feeling of myself or me-ness Nothing more but truly the stuff of legends.
The other time was the opposite I had a hard time relaxing enought to actually fall asleep. My mind was racing and I just generally thought I would not be able to sleep. This occurs maximum on twice a year for me. As I lied there in bed for maybe two hours, I started to do all sort of relaxation techniques to calm the mind. The racing of thoughts maybe dimished to some extent, but I was crystal clear awake (and still having lots of thoughts, so no "just awareness") and then I sensed that my body fell asleep completely! The body was in completely relaxed state, felt out of my control basically, my eyes felt that they could not have been opened had I wanted to open them. This was interesting as I was watching this wide awake. I sensed some energetic activity going on while this happened, mostly some warm, flowings sensations in the legs or something like small, gentle, electric shoks.. I tried to gently guide my mind to enter a sleep state with clarity. but was not able to do that. Instead after maybe half an hour I was in my original, resstless and wholly awake state. I fell asleep some time later without having any recollection of the event.
Other than that, I've been sitting regularly and my sits have been good with decent clarity. No particular problems in any of life's areas.
The other time was the opposite
I had a hard time relaxing enought to actually fall asleep. My mind was racing and I just generally thought I would not be able to sleep. This occurs maximum on twice a year for me. As I lied there in bed for maybe two hours, I started to do all sort of relaxation techniques to calm the mind. The racing of thoughts maybe dimished to some extent, but I was crystal clear awake (and still having lots of thoughts, so no "just awareness") and then I sensed that my body fell asleep completely! The body was in completely relaxed state, felt out of my control basically, my eyes felt that they could not have been opened had I wanted to open them. This was interesting as I was watching this wide awake. I sensed some energetic activity going on while this happened, mostly some warm, flowings sensations in the legs or something like small, gentle, electric shoks.. I tried to gently guide my mind to enter a sleep state with clarity. but was not able to do that. Instead after maybe half an hour I was in my original, resstless and wholly awake state. I fell asleep some time later without having any recollection of the event.Other than that, I've been sitting regularly and my sits have been good with decent clarity. No particular problems in any of life's areas.
It ocurred to me to try and write a phenomenological description of my sits after hearing somebody complain that those were hard to find. So I had this in mind when I was sitting last night. Didn't take notes, but I will write what comes to mind now.
At the beginning of the sit, while settling down, I felt little bit distracted and all over the place. My awareness felt just ordinary, nothing to write home about. I had thoughts flying here and there, none of them with any importance or special weight in them, but generally they felt as though they were something extra, like a winter coat worn inside on my mind So I'm relaxing, going through different parts of the body. This happens fast, in about a minute or so. I'm sitting on a pillow crosslegged, with my eyes open all the time. I do the initial vizualization, my body and aura as diamond-clear crystal stone. I don't just visualize, although I'm pretty good at it, but I also focus on the sensate aspect and knowing that I have a crystal body. Following this I visualize the pillars going down and up from my heart space. I hold this idea for a minute or two and then feel what's going on. I notice my mind has settled down. I no longer feel the thoughts rummaging about my mind. I'm more calm, I feel good just being.
Next I proceed with some breathing exercises and mantra recitations. After each technicue I pause for a moment to feel what I'm experiencing. It's really hard to describe the differences, allthough I do notice something slightly different after each technique. The overall pervasive feeling is that of easiness and goodness.
Then there is the final atiyoga phase of the sit, aplying no technique, just sitting. I have no trouble with my posture or my body. In fact the body seems to be there only in some shallow sense. If I think about it, it's there, but it is not needing attention. My attention is somehow nowhere in particular. It feels really ordinary but in a good way. I woudn't call it bliss, because I associate bliss with a feeling that is so strong it almost hurts. I feel equanomous yet warm, like being under the sunlight with the nicest breeze where you could stay forever. I notice I still have thought coming up, but they are different than in the beginning of the sit. They are somehow not in the forefront. Despite of the thoughts I'm enjoying feeling totally thoughtless and stable. I'm seeing the wall one or two meters aways from me. I notice sometimes I'm focused on a pattern on the wall. If I notice this I try to avoid looking at the wall and instead inhabit the mind space, not the space in front of me.
At this point I suddenly remember I forgot to ask for a blessing from Padmasabhava and Yeshe Tsogyal. I must have forgotten because I was determined to write about my sit, so got distracted there a bit. Anyhow, I ask for the blessing at this point. Typically I would have grown out of the sit gradually by now, but after blessing I find that the feeling while sitting is so pleasant that I want to sit some more. Some thoughts pass by but they are not what is important. I don't know what words to apply, but the feeling is just so right, so normal, so pleasant in a nonassuming way. Mind feels like it is resting, while at the same time it is being active, not in slumber or muffled or anything like that. I shout a couple pf phet-matras (pretty silently due to neughbors but still applying some gusto) and observe a certain type of pause after each shout. A pause I'm not quite able to differentiate from the feeling of body tensing and releasing after physical effort. There are no thoughts. I'm feeling less pleasant and more absolutely equanomously neutral after this. I end the sit after taking refuge and reciting a wish for all being be free. I'm feeling calm and grateful afterwards. It was a pretty routine sit.
At the beginning of the sit, while settling down, I felt little bit distracted and all over the place. My awareness felt just ordinary, nothing to write home about. I had thoughts flying here and there, none of them with any importance or special weight in them, but generally they felt as though they were something extra, like a winter coat worn inside on my mind
So I'm relaxing, going through different parts of the body. This happens fast, in about a minute or so. I'm sitting on a pillow crosslegged, with my eyes open all the time. I do the initial vizualization, my body and aura as diamond-clear crystal stone. I don't just visualize, although I'm pretty good at it, but I also focus on the sensate aspect and knowing that I have a crystal body. Following this I visualize the pillars going down and up from my heart space. I hold this idea for a minute or two and then feel what's going on. I notice my mind has settled down. I no longer feel the thoughts rummaging about my mind. I'm more calm, I feel good just being. Next I proceed with some breathing exercises and mantra recitations. After each technicue I pause for a moment to feel what I'm experiencing. It's really hard to describe the differences, allthough I do notice something slightly different after each technique. The overall pervasive feeling is that of easiness and goodness.
Then there is the final atiyoga phase of the sit, aplying no technique, just sitting. I have no trouble with my posture or my body. In fact the body seems to be there only in some shallow sense. If I think about it, it's there, but it is not needing attention. My attention is somehow nowhere in particular. It feels really ordinary but in a good way. I woudn't call it bliss, because I associate bliss with a feeling that is so strong it almost hurts. I feel equanomous yet warm, like being under the sunlight with the nicest breeze where you could stay forever. I notice I still have thought coming up, but they are different than in the beginning of the sit. They are somehow not in the forefront. Despite of the thoughts I'm enjoying feeling totally thoughtless and stable. I'm seeing the wall one or two meters aways from me. I notice sometimes I'm focused on a pattern on the wall. If I notice this I try to avoid looking at the wall and instead inhabit the mind space, not the space in front of me.
At this point I suddenly remember I forgot to ask for a blessing from Padmasabhava and Yeshe Tsogyal. I must have forgotten because I was determined to write about my sit, so got distracted there a bit. Anyhow, I ask for the blessing at this point. Typically I would have grown out of the sit gradually by now, but after blessing I find that the feeling while sitting is so pleasant that I want to sit some more. Some thoughts pass by but they are not what is important. I don't know what words to apply, but the feeling is just so right, so normal, so pleasant in a nonassuming way. Mind feels like it is resting, while at the same time it is being active, not in slumber or muffled or anything like that. I shout a couple pf phet-matras (pretty silently due to neughbors but still applying some gusto) and observe a certain type of pause after each shout. A pause I'm not quite able to differentiate from the feeling of body tensing and releasing after physical effort. There are no thoughts. I'm feeling less pleasant and more absolutely equanomously neutral after this. I end the sit after taking refuge and reciting a wish for all being be free. I'm feeling calm and grateful afterwards. It was a pretty routine sit.
shargrol:
Jehanne S Peacock:
- I'm convinced that there are some blind spots in me, in my behavior, that I am not aware. I am plenty and realistically aware of most of the stuff that takes place with this body and mind. But how to become aware of the stuff that I am not aware of? This is not talking about phenomenological tiny details in meditation, but more on the psychological structure of me as a whole
For what it's worth, I highly recommend the 6 Realms framework as a way to discover how our unconscious orientations create our percieved experience. Basically, in each moments that are not awake, we will have an prejudiced orientation toward the world. This bias, which is closer than close and rarely seen, will determine what we look for and therefore how we react to the world. But if you are conscious of this, then suddenly we are much more responsive rather than reactive to the state of things.
The basic buddhist idea is that we keep getting psychologically reborn into the present moment, and we can be reborn as hell beings, hungry ghosts, animals, humans, titan, or gods. Each birth will be motivated by an unconscious orientation, in the hell realm it's anger/vengence, in hungry ghost it's greed/addiction, in animal world it is automatic habits, in human it is desire, in titan it is ambition, in gods it is pride. And from that seed, an entire worldview is created.
In a way, this is ultimately what Jungian individuation becomes--- looking upstream into how we "frame" experience through different paradigms, ultimately arriving at very primal structures in the mind.
Thinking about it more, a basic framework could be Jungian shadow work, 6 realms work, and the 5 element work (5 elements is an even more refined framework, dealing with much more immediate flashes of un-awakeness which eventually lead to the 6 realms).
The Ken McLeod Wake Up To Your Life book has good 6 realms and 5 elements discussion/practices. There are also good podcast/recordings on unfetteredmind.org
Hope this helps in some way!
Thanks shargrol! I was not aware of these techniques but looked them up. I was able to find that suggested book on Spotify, and listening to it at the moment (by the way what's up with my sopitfy app, it seems to be impossible to listen to the chapters in order. It's always in shuffle mode!)
I especially appreciate the questions and descriptions of how certain realms manifest. When it is said explicitly first, I can more readily identify the same thing in my experience too. I think this applies to everyone pretty much, which is why practice logs are so fun to read
In the book McLeod speaks about pristine awareness. I think this is what I'm having also, for example when reflecting back on my mother death a year ago. From this perspective everything I encounter has the positive aspect of surrender in them. My actions are constructive insetad of desctructive. There is no association to me being the acting agent, it is all happening out of grace.
Currently I'm most acutely able to identify this reactive patterns when having serious arguments with my spouse. I have a lot of this void-tendency happening. It's funny I can during the argument exactly see my predicament and remember how it has been the last 30 times, but I am unable to change the course of the fight. And I talk about this during the event, also. With this I'm effectivel ymakign the situation worse not better, and boring myself also, because what is really needed is change, not some meta-analysis of what I am doing wrong at the moment. And it is precisely this change that I'm not readily able to bring to the situation. Although I also have some pointers. I know that it can be over in a single instant, if Something just changes. Something in my attitude and outlook? It has to be sincere. It cannot be forced. There is a certain sense of letting go involved. Hmm. This might not be useful to anyone else, as it tends to be a bit too personal and I am not giving sufficient details, sorry
Another thing! I hopefully can find a reference later if this is not clear, but McLeod talks about there being an instant where awareness blanks out during this process of reactivity. I can recognize much of the patterns that he describes. However I am not currenly aware of this blanking. Now it makes me wonder if I am experiencing it, but do not associate these same terms to it. Or whether I'm not actually seeing it, and I should refine my senses. Currenlty I have an inclination to say it is the first option. I have some experience that might fit what he descibes, but it is very difficult to put into words. It is at the same time very subtle, but all-encompassing as there is a change in atmosphere. Like a cold stone sinking to your stomach and how it is seen in the head space. I was just wondering if this blanking is in any way related to cessation and maybe that is why I don't get cessations? I'm not saying this blankin out is a cessation, more like if I am not able to see and descibe this blanking even though I have it, could same apply to cessation in my case too?
PS. I added one point to my previous post about losing the fear associated with flying
Yeah, these reactive chains are very interesting if you can see them in your actual lived experience. When mindfulness is strong enough to start picking up on these subtle patterns, practice can really be extended to off-cushion, moment by moment practice. The basic idea is if your mindfulness has more "energy" then the reactive pattern, then you can see it in real time. If mindfulness is weak, then you tend to realize after the reactive pattern has played out -- you kinda say, what was that all about?
Awareness without reactivity is responsive to the situation. When things aren't quite matching up/appropriate, it can be helpful to assume there is some kind of reactive chain occurring. Sometimes it is obvious, but often times it's suble.
Void tendency (confusion and then panic) is often a catch-all element, there will usually be a "trigger" element of earth, water, fire, or air that kicks off the reactive pattern. See if you can find a trigger that is defensive (earth), avoidant (water), intensifying (fire), or busy (air) that kicks off the void tendency.
The blanking out is very tricky to understand... I know there is a good recording on his website that covers it, let me see...Ah, here you go: Ken walks a group through the speed of the reaction in one of his recordings. It's in "Five Elements, Five Dakinis, Session 10" See http://unfetteredmind.org/five-elements-five-dakinis-10/. In the transcript, search for "push hands."
Awareness without reactivity is responsive to the situation. When things aren't quite matching up/appropriate, it can be helpful to assume there is some kind of reactive chain occurring. Sometimes it is obvious, but often times it's suble.
Void tendency (confusion and then panic) is often a catch-all element, there will usually be a "trigger" element of earth, water, fire, or air that kicks off the reactive pattern. See if you can find a trigger that is defensive (earth), avoidant (water), intensifying (fire), or busy (air) that kicks off the void tendency.
The blanking out is very tricky to understand... I know there is a good recording on his website that covers it, let me see...Ah, here you go: Ken walks a group through the speed of the reaction in one of his recordings. It's in "Five Elements, Five Dakinis, Session 10" See http://unfetteredmind.org/five-elements-five-dakinis-10/. In the transcript, search for "push hands."
I'm re-reading chapter 5 in Wake Up To Your Life now and have been spending some quality practice time with my old friend, the fire element (again). Our relationship is much improved these days, but like any relationship it seems to require regular maintenance. Without that, bleed through starts to happen...
Anyway, Ken's stuff is really great for this so it's good to see others benefitting from it as well.
Anyway, Ken's stuff is really great for this so it's good to see others benefitting from it as well.
shargrol:
Really, that whole series on unfettered mind on the 5 elements is worth reading.
(P.S. the connecting with men seems very Jungian, perhaps a form of connecting with the "animus", this being a set of unconscious masculine attributes and potentials ??)
Yes the 5 elements series has proven to be interesting, will probably read through and do the practices as well.
About the PS... I did a draft for a post but decided that it's to cheesy and personal to be published
Apparently you can read it though?
cool, it's really good stuff.
(and no I don't see drafts/deleted stuff ----- correction, apparently I do.)
(and no I don't see drafts/deleted stuff ----- correction, apparently I do.)
Shargrol,
no worries and thank you for responding so respectfully. I'm glad I had quoted your reply so it didn't get lost! I liked it very much. I had been suspecting something like this is going on, although I'm still pretty glueless about what to think or do about the animus/anima.
I made the text public now, after editing out most of the cheese
no worries and thank you for responding so respectfully. I'm glad I had quoted your reply so it didn't get lost!
I liked it very much. I had been suspecting something like this is going on, although I'm still pretty glueless about what to think or do about the animus/anima. I made the text public now, after editing out most of the cheese
Jehanne S Peacock:
Shargrol,
no worries and thank you for responding so respectfully. I'm glad I had quoted your reply so it didn't get lost! I liked it very much. I had been suspecting something like this is going on, although I'm still pretty glueless about what to think or do about the animus/anima.
I made the text public now, after editing out most of the cheese
no worries and thank you for responding so respectfully. I'm glad I had quoted your reply so it didn't get lost!
I liked it very much. I had been suspecting something like this is going on, although I'm still pretty glueless about what to think or do about the animus/anima. I made the text public now, after editing out most of the cheese
Whew, all's well that ends well I guess.
As far as animus/anima goes... although Jung formulated his own philosophy, I think the basic idea is that sometimes we have to see stuff "outside" of us before we can make a connection with it and own it. I admit, I'm not aware of all the details of jungian psychology.
shargrol:
As far as animus/anima goes... although Jung formulated his own philosophy, I think the basic idea is that sometimes we have to see stuff "outside" of us before we can make a connection with it and own it. I admit, I'm not aware of all the details of jungian psychology.
This sounds reasonable and well formulated! I'm also no expert on Jung's ideas conceptually speaking, but I feel strongly pulled to his texts, and I seem to have stuff open in new subtle ways as I dive into the system. Very far from being able to explain that stuff to anyone at the moment, though.
This reminded me of a course of events I might record here:
- Around four or five years ago, I remember I could wait a bus and watch with equanimity how my mind created judgment on other poeple I saw. I found them very irritating or fat or whatever. There was a voice in my head that was saying nasty things about others. I remembered thinking that it would be typical to reject these thoughts and cast judgment on myself for thinking them, I was a good non-judgmental person afterall. Well, I didn't feel the need to do any of this, because I saw the thoughts as completely separate from anything that is relevant for me. I saw how this judgment melted away the second one of these persons made a connection by saying hello to me. I didn't take the thoughts seriously as representign something solid in me.
- I notice now that this judgmental thinking does not happen as often. If it does happen, it is related to difficult perioods where I'm irritated and volatile. I still keep a distance to these thougts, they are not me and not mine, they just happen.
-I've also known for years both experientally and intellectually, that if I am very much irritated by somebody, there is something in them that I also have that I'm objecting to. So these things should be examined within myself, and not thought of the faults of others.
-I noticed just now that maybe this tendency has given away. I don't remember being irritated of the people I used to be. These are folks I only follow in instagram or blogs. I used to go and read their content and think that they were acting superficially or naively and I was generally feeling that they were doing something wrong, I dind't like them and considered them stupid quite frankly. I now find that I don't have the pull to go read their stuff, and when I do, there is not the feeling like that attached to the process anymore.
-I haven't switched this irritation to different set of people, it seems to be gone. Currently I don't have anybody that would cause this reaction in me.
-A close coworker of mine seems to have lost his ability to piss me off with his stupidity, that is I have transformed to not project him with this stuff. And yes, I've recognized that my own shortcomings are precisely the things I critizise him for. I do still think that there are certain mannerisms in him that are not the most wholesome, but I watch him with kindness instead of judgement. I feel our relationship has improved. This is still very recent, this week, so it might be subject to change. The previous stuff has been better for longer, I can't say exact time because I did not notice it at first.
Continuing to have meaningful dreams: A recurring theme is me confronting my mother, who has died, about this fact in my dreams. She found a white flower and I recognized it being from her funeral. I told her this and she froze and started to decay. Also my brother sank in a ditch neck deep, while I was able to pass with dry feet following my mother's footsteps, she was dressed in white.
Food for thought
From MCTB2 on fruition:
Thus, this is impossible to comprehend, as it goes completely and utterly beyond the rational mind and the universe. In “external time” (if we were observing the meditator) this stage typically lasts only an instant (though the question of “duration” will be addressed below). It is like an utter discontinuity of the space-time continuum with nothing in the unfindable gap, exactly like what happens when someone edits out a frame or sequence of frames of a movie. It is not that you see a blank screen for a while where they edited the frames out, instead that part of the movie is just not there.
The initial aftershocks following the first time this happens at stream entry (or the first time it happens at the beginning of a higher level of awakening), however, can go on for days, and may be mild or spectacular, fun or unsettling, or some mixture of these. There are times when it is fun to show off, and this is one of those times. (Particularly mature? No. Honest? Yes.) Aftershocks I have noticed after paths include but are not limited to:
• the brief visceral feeling that sensory reality is so intense that the nerves in the forehead and upper neck may not be able to handle the strain;
• the feeling that new brain pathways are now being infused with vibrant life they lacked before, as if new nerve channels are tingling into life;
• the feeling that we have become diffused into the atmosphere without a center, purpose, function, sense of direction, or even will;
• a feeling of joy and gratitude bursting through our being beyond our usual sense of appreciation;
• the sense of having at long last discovered what we most needed;
• the profound sense of coming home, a quiet awe like the stillness after a great storm;
• rapturous transcendent highs that make anything that happened after the A&P seem like dry toast;
• the profound feeling that something pressed a reset button on reality, causing it to reboot as new, clean, clear, bright, pristine, and fresh.
All that said, there are those who won’t recognize it, particularly those who chance upon it outside of a meditative tradition that can recognize it. There will also be those for whom it happens within the context of their practice tradition, who can recognize it, but who fail to identify it as being what it is. Sometimes the afterglow is not so spectacular, though for most the series of insights, connections, syntheses, and the like that burgeon forth is impressive. Others will just go on practicing, not realizing what has just happened.
Ok. After now re-reading this, I officially declare that I leave my wondering of "whether or not I experience fruitions" behind me. I do not feel like addressing that silly question anymore. If somebody asks, yes, I have fruitions. If nobody asks, that is fine
I have amped up my tantric practise a bit adding more rounds to certain techniques. I think I see the effect in my daily life as more pronounced, amplified cycling as is expected. Carrying on
Thus, this is impossible to comprehend, as it goes completely and utterly beyond the rational mind and the universe. In “external time” (if we were observing the meditator) this stage typically lasts only an instant (though the question of “duration” will be addressed below). It is like an utter discontinuity of the space-time continuum with nothing in the unfindable gap, exactly like what happens when someone edits out a frame or sequence of frames of a movie. It is not that you see a blank screen for a while where they edited the frames out, instead that part of the movie is just not there.
The initial aftershocks following the first time this happens at stream entry (or the first time it happens at the beginning of a higher level of awakening), however, can go on for days, and may be mild or spectacular, fun or unsettling, or some mixture of these. There are times when it is fun to show off, and this is one of those times. (Particularly mature? No. Honest? Yes.) Aftershocks I have noticed after paths include but are not limited to:
• the brief visceral feeling that sensory reality is so intense that the nerves in the forehead and upper neck may not be able to handle the strain;
• the feeling that new brain pathways are now being infused with vibrant life they lacked before, as if new nerve channels are tingling into life;
• the feeling that we have become diffused into the atmosphere without a center, purpose, function, sense of direction, or even will;
• a feeling of joy and gratitude bursting through our being beyond our usual sense of appreciation;
• the sense of having at long last discovered what we most needed;
• the profound sense of coming home, a quiet awe like the stillness after a great storm;
• rapturous transcendent highs that make anything that happened after the A&P seem like dry toast;
• the profound feeling that something pressed a reset button on reality, causing it to reboot as new, clean, clear, bright, pristine, and fresh.
All that said, there are those who won’t recognize it, particularly those who chance upon it outside of a meditative tradition that can recognize it. There will also be those for whom it happens within the context of their practice tradition, who can recognize it, but who fail to identify it as being what it is. Sometimes the afterglow is not so spectacular, though for most the series of insights, connections, syntheses, and the like that burgeon forth is impressive. Others will just go on practicing, not realizing what has just happened.
Ok. After now re-reading this, I officially declare that I leave my wondering of "whether or not I experience fruitions" behind me. I do not feel like addressing that silly question anymore. If somebody asks, yes, I have fruitions. If nobody asks, that is fine
I have amped up my tantric practise a bit adding more rounds to certain techniques. I think I see the effect in my daily life as more pronounced, amplified cycling as is expected. Carrying on
