Hands and arms disappear

Tarick Bouhamidi, modified 10 Years ago at 3/3/14 3:10 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 3/3/14 3:10 PM

Hands and arms disappear

Posts: 7 Join Date: 3/3/14 Recent Posts
Hello everybody,

My name is Tarick and I would like some help concerning meditation.
I do anapanasati and 2 months ago i decided to intensify the practice by keeping the 8 precepts and meditating 4 to 5 hours a day.

Slowly the results started showing up and now I got to a point where I'm a little stuck.
Hands and arms disappeared this evening ( very amusing by the way) so where do I direct sati to ?
Do I stay with the breath?
Do I focus on the Sukha,, or just observe the whole lot?

Thank you in advance
Tarick
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Dream Walker, modified 10 Years ago at 3/3/14 4:50 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 3/3/14 4:50 PM

RE: Hands and arms disappear

Posts: 1683 Join Date: 1/18/12 Recent Posts
Tarick Bouhamidi:
Hello everybody,

Hello and welcome to the Dho
Tarick Bouhamidi:
My name is Tarick and I would like some help concerning meditation.
What are your goals with meditation?
Tarick Bouhamidi:
I do anapanasati and 2 months ago i decided to intensify the practice by keeping the 8 precepts and meditating 4 to 5 hours a day.
What kind of anapanasati do you do? could you explain exactly what you do?

Tarick Bouhamidi:
Slowly the results started showing up and now I got to a point where I'm a little stuck.
what results are you talking about and what do you mean by stuck?
Tarick Bouhamidi:
Hands and arms disappeared this evening ( very amusing by the way) so where do I direct sati to ?
what do you mean by arms and hands disappearing...can you see them? Is this during meditation or always?Permanent or temporary? how long? Explain what you mean by sati in how you are using it.
Tarick Bouhamidi:
Do I stay with the breath?
What happens when you do?
Tarick Bouhamidi:
Do I focus on the Sukha,, or just observe the whole lot?
whole lot of what? again...what are you trying to accomplish?
Tarick Bouhamidi:
Thank you in advance
Tarick

Sorry about all the questions but I found your post too vague to give any meaningful advice.
with Metta,
~D
Tarick Bouhamidi, modified 10 Years ago at 3/3/14 5:17 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 3/3/14 5:17 PM

RE: Hands and arms disappear

Posts: 7 Join Date: 3/3/14 Recent Posts
Hello,

Yes of course sorry for the lack of detail.

Goal of meditation for me,: calming the mind so that I can investigate the khandas to uproot the kilesas and reach enlightenment, and enjoy the states of mind on the way.
Anapanasati for me : focus on the breath at the tip of the nose, and calming the mind by doing so
What happened so far: after 10 to 15 mins of focusing on the breath, hardly any thoughts anymore or maybe 1 or two but like way in the background. A very pleasant feeling comes up and the breath is very subtle no pain in the knees or anywhere else.
A high pitched sound which accompanies me during the meditation and I can also hear it during the day if there is not too much sound.
And since the this evening it felt like my hands and arms disappeared during sitting meditation after about an hour or so(I know they were still there)
Is this OK for you to give me some guidance
Metta
Tarick
Tarick Bouhamidi, modified 10 Years ago at 3/3/14 5:26 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 3/3/14 5:26 PM

RE: Hands and arms disappear

Posts: 7 Join Date: 3/3/14 Recent Posts
oh yes and the feeling of the hands and arms disappearing lasted until I got out of meditation 10\15 mins later
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katy steger,thru11615 with thanks, modified 10 Years ago at 3/3/14 6:43 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 3/3/14 6:40 PM

RE: Hands and arms disappear

Posts: 1740 Join Date: 10/1/11 Recent Posts
Hi Tarick,

Hands and arms disappeared this evening ( very amusing by the way) so where do I direct sati to ?
Do I stay with the breath?
Do I focus on the Sukha,, or just observe the whole lot?
I enjoy this effect, by the way. I sometimes call it "boundarinessless"
I would say, "yes, do that" to all of the above. Why? Because it is like getting a new game and a person will naturally try all the games and "levels".

Eventually, the mind will not be provoked at all by this very soothing effect of meditation/sitting calmly. That settling is useful (as is experiencing this sukkha) but in my own experience, rushing past or through this cannot be. It will become an unprovocative experience to the mind with experience and in the meantime one can learn how it is useful, how it's a source of craving (and dukkha) and how it is conditioned and will cease, how our mind will be provoked by its cessation and sitting with and without the mind-body saturated this way*.



What do you think of just experience what's there?

=)k

*Does this sukkha extend to the head? IF not and if you do work on this, just know perception can get very alternative this way.
Tarick Bouhamidi, modified 10 Years ago at 3/4/14 12:42 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 3/4/14 12:42 AM

RE: Hands and arms disappear

Posts: 7 Join Date: 3/3/14 Recent Posts
Hi Katy,

Thank you for this answer.

Yes the Sukha goes to the head in a wavy kind of state, very pleasant.

And there was something else as well , last week I had this overwhelming feeling in the stomach and heart region during the sitting meditation, it made me laugh out loud, quite uncontrollable! And a a couple of days later it happened again but included the head . only this time it made me first smile and as it got more intense I got so happy that I started to cry.
This was very very heavy stuff, and I still don't know what it was because it didn't come back yet.
Metta
Tarick
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Dream Walker, modified 10 Years ago at 3/4/14 1:12 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 3/4/14 1:12 AM

RE: Hands and arms disappear (Answer)

Posts: 1683 Join Date: 1/18/12 Recent Posts
Tarick Bouhamidi:
Hello,

Yes of course sorry for the lack of detail.

Goal of meditation for me,: calming the mind so that I can investigate the khandas to uproot the kilesas and reach enlightenment, and enjoy the states of mind on the way.
Anapanasati for me : focus on the breath at the tip of the nose, and calming the mind by doing so
What happened so far: after 10 to 15 mins of focusing on the breath, hardly any thoughts anymore or maybe 1 or two but like way in the background. A very pleasant feeling comes up and the breath is very subtle no pain in the knees or anywhere else.
A high pitched sound which accompanies me during the meditation and I can also hear it during the day if there is not too much sound.
And since the this evening it felt like my hands and arms disappeared during sitting meditation after about an hour or so(I know they were still there)
Is this OK for you to give me some guidance
Metta
Tarick

Well it sounds like you are accessing the jhanas from your concentration by doing Anapanasati. Very nice. I am guessing that you are doing concentration on your breath but not vipassana. Noticing the in, out over and over without noticing the sensations that make up each individual breath tends to get me concentrated. If I focus on the sensations of each breath individually I tend toward insite practice. Here is a cool link from a member here about anapanasati
The ringing in your ears is also a sign of Jhana activity....link -"Nada" sound
Have you read MCTB yet? Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha, an Unusually Hardcore Dharma Book, by Daniel Ingram It's chock full of good info for heading towards stream entry. Most of us here have read it and knowing the concepts will help in clarifying your questions.
Good luck,
~D
Tarick Bouhamidi, modified 10 Years ago at 3/4/14 3:52 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 3/4/14 3:52 AM

RE: Hands and arms disappear

Posts: 7 Join Date: 3/3/14 Recent Posts
Hello dream walker,

Thank you for this answer,.
Your answer and Katie's answer confirmed what I was thinking but I wanted to be sure not take the wrong turn .
I will get back in touch as soon as I have some trouble or just to share a meditation breakthrough.
Metta
Tarick
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Hazard J Gibbons, modified 10 Years ago at 3/4/14 8:18 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 3/4/14 8:17 AM

RE: Hands and arms disappear (Answer)

Posts: 40 Join Date: 12/20/13 Recent Posts
Tarick Bouhamidi:
Hi Katy,

Thank you for this answer.

Yes the Sukha goes to the head in a wavy kind of state, very pleasant.

And there was something else as well , last week I had this overwhelming feeling in the stomach and heart region during the sitting meditation, it made me laugh out loud, quite uncontrollable! And a a couple of days later it happened again but included the head . only this time it made me first smile and as it got more intense I got so happy that I started to cry.
This was very very heavy stuff, and I still don't know what it was because it didn't come back yet.
Metta
Tarick


Its rare that I get this concentrated, but once I was practicing in a similar way (anapanasati, tip of the nostrils, not focusing on insight but noting thoughts) and felt the left side of my head go completely numb, then a strong "tug" toward the left, then my whole head and part of my left arm dissolved, and I was left with that sense of "boundarilessness" that katy mentions. I've experienced similar states through psychedelics in the past, but to have it happen without having taken something was both relevatory and frightening, but I experienced these emotions long afterwards, while reflecting on the experience; during, I only felt calm and more than a little curious. I wonder if these are the features of some of the "formless jhanas" or if they're a separate effect of deep concentration.
Tarick Bouhamidi, modified 10 Years ago at 3/4/14 8:43 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 3/4/14 8:43 AM

RE: Hands and arms disappear

Posts: 7 Join Date: 3/3/14 Recent Posts
Hello Hazard j Gibbons,

I should also add that both times this arrived I was in a completely detached state of mind before the sitting meditation.
I also made a determination that I was going to stay with the breath no matter what happened .I was ready to die if necessary.
I know this sounds a bit crazy but maybe this could be the reason for this intense state .
Who knows?
I also felt soooo much gratitude towards the Lord Buddha and the sasana that even now when I reflect back on this tears come to my eyes.
This has strengthened my faith in Buddha Dhamma an Sangha and as I said before I am willing to put my life on the line for the practice.
Metta
Tarick
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katy steger,thru11615 with thanks, modified 10 Years ago at 3/4/14 10:43 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 3/4/14 10:27 AM

RE: Hands and arms disappear

Posts: 1740 Join Date: 10/1/11 Recent Posts
[indent]I wonder if these are the features of some of the "formless jhanas" or if they're a separate effect of deep concentration.[/indent]
When thinking stops here, the mind may enter those mental states that are called "formless". Leading up to the release of one's own thinking here, but not actually released of own self and thinking and feelings, there can be desires to control/hold this sukkha, a desire to desire more sukkha, a desire that it not end, a conceit that "it's just sukkha", a conceit that "I have sukkha" ~ all kinds of personal thoughts, which impede the actual concentration, impede suffusive concentration. Furthermore, if one has sense of self remaining to evaluate the perceived jhana (though a "wow"ing self perspective can be toggled when this mental concentration is newly experienced) , this incomplete 'semi-jhana' will eventually be demoted by the experiencer, because they ultimately know whatever they experienced, it still contained their own controlling mind and identity.

When suttas recommend that each mental concentration (jhana) be stabilized before moving on, I feel the reason for this is because in each concentrated state being suffused in that mental condition (jhana) is known when something "I" couldn't do occurs related to that concentration. The mind just does something that I couldn't imagine doing, even if someone told me exactly what would happen. In first jhana, for me, I know "suffusive first jhana" occurs when the mind seem to magnetize to its object (be it breath, mantra, kasina, etc), and this magnetized mind a) can only be set up (indirectly caused) by my own deliberate, gentle, repeated/habitual subduing of myself (letting thoughts arise and pass without keeping hold of them and gently returning to the object again and again and again, till the mind is satisfied not to leave the object) and b) the unified mind offers an experience of/consciousness of object-awareness that is distinct from awareness having any personal perspective. 2nd jhana has its suffusive hallmark, and third jhana - sukkha - can indeed launch one into what, in hindsight, may seem like something that eliminated what I would think of as normal physical and conscious boundaries.

Gah, words ;)

What's this training good for if the suffusive mental states occur? It begins the work of undermining self-centeredness and the problems of greed and ill-will. What's that good for? Well, understanding seems to broaden, and living and dying are close-by, so each are bringing attention into vividness. I still get lost in chocolate pretzels and subtle guarding of them though (this aside is to say, having experience of concentrated mental states does not make a guru or a perfected being, not me anyway. Life is way more interesting/simple/wow to me since practicing these last few years, but I still have hindrances, though the problems I bring myself ~ distinct from those non-pleasant things that just are a part of being alive ~ are clearer).

These are just my reflections from my own practice. Everyone may just sit/do and peaceably study/watch how own minds are moving.
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Dream Walker, modified 10 Years ago at 3/4/14 12:35 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 3/4/14 12:28 PM

RE: Hands and arms disappear

Posts: 1683 Join Date: 1/18/12 Recent Posts
Tarick Bouhamidi:

Hands and arms disappeared this evening ( very amusing by the way)

Something similar just happened last sit. This has happened before and I started a thread about it in the past...- Interoception, Proprioception, Cortical homunculus, Body distortions
Fun stuff and very intense...
Have fun,
~D
Tarick Bouhamidi, modified 10 Years ago at 3/4/14 1:15 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 3/4/14 1:15 PM

RE: Hands and arms disappear

Posts: 7 Join Date: 3/3/14 Recent Posts
Hello dream walker,

Yes that's totally it there was also a feeling as if the shoulders turned 90 degrees to the right in the beginning just before they completely "vanished"

Metta
Tarick

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