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Non-duality Realized all the time?

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Non-duality Realized all the time?
Answer
6/23/14 9:13 PM
So lately I have been listening to a few Sam Harris conversations about his new book coming out called Waking Up. What he seems to be saying is that you can experience non-duality or no-self during meditation, but then that experience goes away. You can then bring it back up again in a later meditation, when you are again analyzing (trying to find the self) and not finding it. He says some people can live their whole life with a no-self experience.

My question is when you reach stream entry, is that just a momentary glimpse into no-self that then fades away? Is 4th path the experience of non-duality that is present at all times? While before that you have seen non-duality, but it's not always there unless you look for it?

RE: Non-duality Realized all the time?
Answer
6/23/14 9:24 PM as a reply to Jinxed P.
My suggestion is that you proceed cautiously with any philosophy that promotes non-duality. It is not a concept that the Buddha espoused.

RE: Non-duality Realized all the time?
Answer
6/23/14 11:47 PM as a reply to Jinxed P.
Jinxed P:
My question is when you reach stream entry, is that just a momentary glimpse into no-self that then fades away? Is 4th path the experience of non-duality that is present at all times? While before that you have seen non-duality, but it's not always there unless you look for it?

This is a debatable area.  Basically if you want to be a great moral person you have to improve your habits by repeatedly doing the right actions and abandoning (even in the middle) bad actions.  When you experience non-duality it's easier to look at habits as just that, habits.  When people identify habits as a self they tend to have a self-defeating attitude that they can't change this "self" of habits, which naturally fates them to not change.  Shinzen Young said that you'll be tweaking your habits for the rest of your life.

I do like non-duality writers but there's often an over-simplification of non-self experiences that people think they've got it when they haven't.  Understanding dependent arising and understanding how conceptual time is for us normally will give you better insights and you'll want to create causes and conditions for better behaviour.  Sometimes just stopping during a busy life and emptying your mind of thoughts will give you the difference between self and non-self experiences.  Notice the facial expressions after your mind goes into a reverie.  Then let go completely and notice how you feel.  The self likes to pose and reenact or make believe at a high rate.  Notice a mental story ruminating in your mind and notice when it's not ruminating.  Perceptions of objects to like or dislike, and thoughts clinging to them make your brain release chemicals that make you feel good or bad.  How you feel will be a great predictor as to how you'll act.

When you're doing something that causes aversion, try and let go of the negative perception and just see the vibrations of experience as they are.  See if you can reduce the aversion so that the task seems to drain you less.  In fact wherever there's stress it's a good time to let go and experiment with acceptance of what is.  Reminding yourself that everything is made up of sub-atomic particles and those particles may be sub-divided even further can help with understanding emptiness and how all objects and experiences are always empty of inherent, unchanging, uncaused existence.  Everything has a cause behind it and even the concept of arising and passing away has to be investigated to avoid arising and passing away being treated as inherent objects.

Make sense?

Richard

RE: Non-duality Realized all the time?
Answer
6/24/14 1:29 AM as a reply to Jinxed P.
Jinxed P:

My question is when you reach stream entry, is that just a momentary glimpse into no-self that then fades away? Is 4th path the experience of non-duality that is present at all times? While before that you have seen non-duality, but it's not always there unless you look for it?

My personal take on the matter is that there are several separate sub/pre-conscious selfing process that make up different aspects of the implied experience of self. These processes can be rewired/shut down so that the corresponding experience of self related to that process is no longer experienced. These seem to be permanent shifts for most people.
The book The Ego Tunnel explains the illusion of self from a neuro-cognitive viewpoint I find fascinating and talks about these different selfing processes.
Of course this is not a traditional Buddhist explanation as the sub/pre-conscious is not a Buddhist concept.
~D

RE: Non-duality Realized all the time?
Answer
6/25/14 12:00 PM as a reply to Jinxed P.
Experiences that might be called "non-dual" vary between people, as some will call very unitive experiences "non-dual", some very peaceful experiences "non-dual", some formless experiences "non-dual", and the like. Thus, for those who are not very careful with their phenomenology, which most practitioners aren't, lots of things can get lumped into that category, many of which are find and good and useful experiences, but to call them "non-dual" might be stretching things a bit.

As to whether or not the Buddha said "non-dual", I do not find the phrase mentioned in any translation of the Pali Canon texts I have read, which is a lot of them. That might lead people to conclude that it was nothing he was talking about, which is a point worthy of careful discussion, as I think it depends on what you think the phrase means and whether that meaning is what the Buddha was pointing to regardless of whether or not he called it the same thing.

Non-dual, at its best, and IMNHO, points to to the following aspect of things:

Duality clearly is illusory, but seeing this directly in real-time is very difficult for most. Brief glimpses arise at the Conformity Knowledge level insight just before Fruitions, less than one-second experiences of the thing, which is obviously very captivating but not satisfying. Third Path as I see it gives people a sense of the thing when walking around, but it is incomplete. Finally, at whatever you wish to call it, which I generally use the term Fourth Path for (though plenty of others don't), we have the walking around experience where dualistic perception has fully untangled itself and finally, at some point, locks in and that is it.

Unitive experiences are also very problematic, as they basically always involve a sense of this side that is now unified with that side, or has a dissolution of boundaries. Such experiences are routinely described in all jhanas, during the A&P, during Equanimity, and in states such as the formed version of Boundless Space and Boundless Consciousness, things I tag as the Boundless Space and Boundless Consciousness sub-jhanas of Equanimity, aka 11.4.5 and 11.4.6 in my own personal shorthand. These generally are transient experiences. This transience is key and brings me to the next point.

Unitive experiences are too transient, too ephemeral, to causal to hold up. They are great, interesting, sometimes produce lots of insight, but are not the final answer, as they don't hold up, are not substantial, and thus are not a refuge or resting place or final answer. They are not fundamental enough, being created things, not something that has stopped.

Dualistic experiences are too illusory, too out of alignment with the way things are, and so they too do not provide some final answer.

Thus, with One and Two ruled out, we have Non-Duality.

In this way of experiencing things, we have something that aligns with things that the Buddha taught. We have from the Udana, "In the seeing, just the seen, in the hearing, just the heard, in the thinking, just the thought," etc. In short, there are just the sensations, the transient sensations, and nothing more, no self to be unified with them, no separate thing perceiving them, just transient causality as it is, where it is, just being itself.

There are those who argue that, as the Buddha didn't explicitly use the term Non-Duality to describe this, that he was pointing to something else. However, as the term didn't exist then, it being a much more modern product of philosophical development, you can't say that he either rejected it or accepted it. Thus, we are left trying to figure out of it applies to what he said. I believe I can argue that it does.

When you have phenomena that are just phenomena, sensations that are just sensations, and there is not Duality, a this and a that, a self to control or observe or whatever, and just things doing things on their own, that rejects the Two part, obviously. So far, so good.

And, given that the Unification of Mind that the jhanas produce was clearly found by the Buddha to not be a final answer, as he learned all 8 jhanas and found them very useful and helpful but not a sufficient final endpoint, we can clearly and easily show that the Buddha rejected solution number One, that of Unity.

Thus, how is it that people say that Non-Duality, that quality that rejects both as being some endpoint, doesn't apply?

What definition of Non-Duality are you using that causes you to compare it to the experience of the thing as well as the theory of the thing and reject it?

As to people who have seen through Dualistic answers and Unitive answers and perceive reality that way all the time, yes, it can be done and there are people who have done it and walk around that way today.

Thoughts?

Daniel

RE: Non-duality Realized all the time?
Answer
6/25/14 2:15 PM as a reply to Jinxed P.
Jinxed P :
So lately I have been listening to a few Sam Harris conversations about his new book coming out called Waking Up. What he seems to be saying is that you can experience non-duality or no-self during meditation, but then that experience goes away. You can then bring it back up again in a later meditation, when you are again analyzing (trying to find the self) and not finding it. He says some people can live their whole life with a no-self experience.

My question is when you reach stream entry, is that just a momentary glimpse into no-self that then fades away? Is 4th path the experience of non-duality that is present at all times? While before that you have seen non-duality, but it's not always there unless you look for it?

I would say that it comes and goes, but over time it seems to become more prevalent, or more of a percentage of awareness, and then some people seem to really go there in a very pure way and just abide.  I think the technical stream entry that we talk about here, the Burmese blip, is indeed momentary, but then again something has been opened up.

Seems like the word anatta might be relevant here.

RE: Non-duality Realized all the time?
Answer
6/26/14 9:49 AM as a reply to Eric G.
And its becoming more stable in my experience is related to the way in which dualistic formations increasingly can be seen as arising in a nondual field. It's like prior to awakening you get glimpses-- 90% cloudy, 10% clear. Then after awakening once awakening stabilizes however you conceive or label that it's like 90% cloudy 100% clear (sky doesn't obstruct clouds, clouds don't obstruct sky). (ETA i wouldn't equate this to what Daniel cals 4th path).

Obviously this is a pragmatic dharma definition of awakening (ETA as opposed to ten fetters or other traditional model for instance) and leaves aside the questions of whether when and how to decondition the mind's habit of producing dualistic clouds

RE: Non-duality Realized all the time?
Answer
7/1/14 12:42 AM as a reply to deleted deleted.
deleted deleted:
My suggestion is that you proceed cautiously with any philosophy that promotes non-duality. It is not a concept that the Buddha espoused.

Isn't that like saying 'one should proceed cautiously with anything outside the Bible, because it's not something Jesus taught.'

Isn't this part of the forum the 'non-dual' area for posting? emoticon

RE: Non-duality Realized all the time?
Answer
7/14/14 11:24 PM as a reply to Jinxed P.
Non-duality Realized all the time?

Hi Jinxed, formal meditation is a temporary expedient.

Initially, its purpose is to create the habit of total, then subtle observation of the mind at all times.  There is a reason for that, but it is provisional, and I don't do that.  Formal meditation is not "good", unless it is serving that purpose.  Since the "high" produced by this kind of "artificial meditation" wears off anyway and is essentially ineffective, for the most part, in dealing face to face with ordinary situations to any great extent, it is best to do whatever is necessary to hit the ground running, so to speak, in terms of seeing reality as is cold turkey.

Unity of absolute and relative is the working definition of reality.  Nondual nature is your nature.  Consequently, Nirvana and Karmic evolution are not only equal, they are identical.  This is the basis of the saying "sameness within difference", though there are several aspects in terms of dealing with the conceptual device relative to various teachings within buddhism.

Arriving at nonduality in terms of everyday ordinary affairs is essential to buddhist practice.  Actually, it is the working definition of enlightening being.  Enlightening being is the function of awareness.  Awareness is your nature.  Awareness, your own mind right now, is not created.  Seeing reality is activating the mind without dwelling on anything.  The only reason this is possible is because your own mind right now is unborn.  Mind is one, undifferentiated, selfless, void of identity.  It's you.  People aren't just already enlightened— they're enlightened mind incarnate.

Real 24/7 meditation practice is seeing through phenomena without denying their characteristics.  Taoist alchemy calls this refining the medicines.  Buddhism calls this using the sickness to cure the disease.  It's not about meditation, after all.  You can take all the provisional entry-level teachings and use them as applications of the real in the midst of the false in broad daylight unbeknownst to anyone.

It's about using the world to refine the self; using conditions to arrive at essential nature.  This cannot be accomplished by quiet sitting alone.

That's because, reality is already Mind— your mind, right now.  Perhaps you are not ready to hear this, but this is the nondual section, after all.

Reality is relative to your mind.  As long as your mind is habituated to the view of its separate nature, you will not see essence in everyday affairs.  After a long process of self-refinement carried out correctly and effectively in everyday ordiary situations, the self-reifying mental habits that perpetuate the illusion of the separate self-identity as ultimately existent will die off, bit by bit and that much of your primordial potential will be activted as the selfless function of awareness.  Using this is selfless adaption, activating the subtle operation of spiritual transformations in the midst of worldly situations.

Nonduality realized all the time is seeing the physical, psychological, psychic, emotional, causal matrix of karmic evolution (Creation) as void of self— because that's what it is (no different than you).  Going along with this, just as it is, knowing it is utter illusion— how could you possibly bring yourself to act on behalf of situations arising from this insane chaos, good, bad or indifferent?

Acceptance of conditions is "going along— not denying characteristics".  Not acting on conditions is "seeing through phenomena".  The sense of nonattachment to outcomes aids in adapting to the inevitable where unavoidable— the ups and downs look just like reality: "perfection is easy for those with no preferences".

Soon enough, you may come to the working strategy that this malestrom of karmic momentum is just your perception of it.  Otherwise, it just doesn't make ANY sense (to leave it up to the world, and fortunately, you don't have to).  YOU take total responsibility for your sensory perception and mental postures.  It doesn't require doing— just meeting of conditions for what they are— illusion.  If you can come to the temporary working realization that phenomena is what reality looks like without having the slightest shred of belief it its ultimate nature, then it might be possible to endeavor to work at adapting to conditions as they present themselves out of a sense of inevitability without clinging to good or bad outcomes.  Selflessness is nonattachment to outcomes.  There is no moral implication in terms of selflessness— it's impersonal.  That's mind. 

This is actually an entry to the buddha's teaching of Suchness and carrying out the activation and partaking of the Great Vehicle.  This is reality, in fact.  Right in front of your nose is this nondual reality 24/7.  As such, it is so whether you are aware of it or not.  In terms of the point of meditation in the first place, and the fact of reality, it is Mind alone.

The lesser vehicle of personal liberation is a temporary expedient as well …why is this?  It's another lie to trick you into the path, that's all.

That Suchness is reality is nominally due to the fact that it is neither absolute nor conditional.  Both Nirvana and Creation are the same illusion.  One is your mind before creation and the other is after.  Clinging to one or the other is delusion.  Neither absolute stillness nor karmic momentum is the essence of reality unified, present and naturally so, without ever entering creation.  This is your nature already.

Even those who experience sudden enlightenment must learn to realize this truth by APPLYING it in the midst of situations seamlessly.

You can begin to see this if you can dismiss your dependent relationships to circumstantial interpretations.  Reality doesn't look any different than delusion when your relationships to circumstances are not dependent on outcomes, good or bad.

Unified with reality all the time is just this awareness of the essential underlying nature of circumstantial process as your own potential.

When you act based on karmic dependence, you change enlightening potential into karmic debt.

Ouch!

RE: Non-duality Realized all the time?
Answer
7/15/14 12:45 AM as a reply to Richard Zen.
Richard Zen:
Jinxed P:
My question is when you reach stream entry, is that just a momentary glimpse into no-self that then fades away? Is 4th path the experience of non-duality that is present at all times? While before that you have seen non-duality, but it's not always there unless you look for it?

This is a debatable area.  Basically if you want to be a great moral person you have to improve your habits by repeatedly doing the right actions and abandoning (even in the middle) bad actions.  When you experience non-duality it's easier to look at habits as just that, habits.  When people identify habits as a self they tend to have a self-defeating attitude that they can't change this "self" of habits, which naturally fates them to not change.  Shinzen Young said that you'll be tweaking your habits for the rest of your life.

I do like non-duality writers but there's often an over-simplification of non-self experiences that people think they've got it when they haven't.  Understanding dependent arising and understanding how conceptual time is for us normally will give you better insights and you'll want to create causes and conditions for better behaviour.  Sometimes just stopping during a busy life and emptying your mind of thoughts will give you the difference between self and non-self experiences.  Notice the facial expressions after your mind goes into a reverie.  Then let go completely and notice how you feel.  The self likes to pose and reenact or make believe at a high rate.  Notice a mental story ruminating in your mind and notice when it's not ruminating.  Perceptions of objects to like or dislike, and thoughts clinging to them make your brain release chemicals that make you feel good or bad.  How you feel will be a great predictor as to how you'll act.

When you're doing something that causes aversion, try and let go of the negative perception and just see the vibrations of experience as they are.  See if you can reduce the aversion so that the task seems to drain you less.  In fact wherever there's stress it's a good time to let go and experiment with acceptance of what is.  Reminding yourself that everything is made up of sub-atomic particles and those particles may be sub-divided even further can help with understanding emptiness and how all objects and experiences are always empty of inherent, unchanging, uncaused existence.  Everything has a cause behind it and even the concept of arising and passing away has to be investigated to avoid arising and passing away being treated as inherent objects.

Make sense?

Richard
Those are interesting methods, is there a specific school of thought those are associated with?  Just curious.  It kind of reminds me of Dog Whisperer.  Some years ago, I got a dog out of the pound and over the next few days, I discovered she had a lot of behavioral problems including acting like Kujo much of the time.  A lot of people thought she was just a bad dog.  But I spent quite a bit of time training her and over time I discovered the methods that worked well with her and now she is overall a very good dog and I get lots of compliments about what a good dog she is, calm and sweet and well behaved, and how they want one like her.  Which makes me laugh as of course she is the same dog that everyone said was 'bad' before.  Same dog, different input, different results.  But people can't easily understand there being a difference between a dog's behavior and the core identity of the dog.  They can't separate the concepts in their mind and realize you can remake a dog if you work at it. 

Overtime, I realized I could not only remake the dog, concepts I learned from Dog Whisperer, ie you are not stuck with the dog you have, the dog is not the same as its behaviors and so the behaviors can be changed because dogs live in the now and so the trainer also has to live in the now, but I also realized I could use the same tactics on myself.  I could become both the trainer and trainee of myself and understood that my identity was not the same as my behaviors.  I could watch the behaviors, emotions, etc and look for the triggers and change them to more useful ones.  Because those things are not me. 

So I think I kind of understand that part of the concept of no self , ie that stuff is not me, it's temporary (is this correct?).  But I don't really understand the rest of the concept of no self.  If that is not me, which clearly it is not as I can ditch a bad habit but still be me, then what is me?  Does no self mean there is no me and the perception of me is like an epiphenomenon of inputs and other things? 

RE: Non-duality Realized all the time?
Answer
9/28/18 7:11 PM as a reply to deci belle.
deci belle:
Non-duality Realized all the time?

Hi Jinxed, formal meditation is a temporary expedient.

Initially, its purpose is to create the habit of total, then subtle observation of the mind at all times.  There is a reason for that, but it is provisional, and I don't do that.  Formal meditation is not "good", unless it is serving that purpose.  Since the "high" produced by this kind of "artificial meditation" wears off anyway and is essentially ineffective, for the most part, in dealing face to face with ordinary situations to any great extent, it is best to do whatever is necessary to hit the ground running, so to speak, in terms of seeing reality as is cold turkey.

Unity of absolute and relative is the working definition of reality.  Nondual nature is your nature.  Consequently, Nirvana and Karmic evolution are not only equal, they are identical.  This is the basis of the saying "sameness within difference", though there are several aspects in terms of dealing with the conceptual device relative to various teachings within buddhism.

Arriving at nonduality in terms of everyday ordinary affairs is essential to buddhist practice.  Actually, it is the working definition of enlightening being.  Enlightening being is the function of awareness.  Awareness is your nature.  Awareness, your own mind right now, is not created.  Seeing reality is activating the mind without dwelling on anything.  The only reason this is possible is because your own mind right now is unborn.  Mind is one, undifferentiated, selfless, void of identity.  It's you.  People aren't just already enlightened— they're enlightened mind incarnate.

Real 24/7 meditation practice is seeing through phenomena without denying their characteristics.  Taoist alchemy calls this refining the medicines.  Buddhism calls this using the sickness to cure the disease.  It's not about meditation, after all.  You can take all the provisional entry-level teachings and use them as applications of the real in the midst of the false in broad daylight unbeknownst to anyone.

It's about using the world to refine the self; using conditions to arrive at essential nature.  This cannot be accomplished by quiet sitting alone.

That's because, reality is already Mind— your mind, right now.  Perhaps you are not ready to hear this, but this is the nondual section, after all.

Reality is relative to your mind.  As long as your mind is habituated to the view of its separate nature, you will not see essence in everyday affairs.  After a long process of self-refinement carried out correctly and effectively in everyday ordiary situations, the self-reifying mental habits that perpetuate the illusion of the separate self-identity as ultimately existent will die off, bit by bit and that much of your primordial potential will be activted as the selfless function of awareness.  Using this is selfless adaption, activating the subtle operation of spiritual transformations in the midst of worldly situations.

Nonduality realized all the time is seeing the physical, psychological, psychic, emotional, causal matrix of karmic evolution (Creation) as void of self— because that's what it is (no different than you).  Going along with this, just as it is, knowing it is utter illusion— how could you possibly bring yourself to act on behalf of situations arising from this insane chaos, good, bad or indifferent?

Acceptance of conditions is "going along— not denying characteristics".  Not acting on conditions is "seeing through phenomena".  The sense of nonattachment to outcomes aids in adapting to the inevitable where unavoidable— the ups and downs look just like reality: "perfection is easy for those with no preferences".

Soon enough, you may come to the working strategy that this malestrom of karmic momentum is just your perception of it.  Otherwise, it just doesn't make ANY sense (to leave it up to the world, and fortunately, you don't have to).  YOU take total responsibility for your sensory perception and mental postures.  It doesn't require doing— just meeting of conditions for what they are— illusion.  If you can come to the temporary working realization that phenomena is what reality looks like without having the slightest shred of belief it its ultimate nature, then it might be possible to endeavor to work at adapting to conditions as they present themselves out of a sense of inevitability without clinging to good or bad outcomes.  Selflessness is nonattachment to outcomes.  There is no moral implication in terms of selflessness— it's impersonal.  That's mind. 

This is actually an entry to the buddha's teaching of Suchness and carrying out the activation and partaking of the Great Vehicle.  This is reality, in fact.  Right in front of your nose is this nondual reality 24/7.  As such, it is so whether you are aware of it or not.  In terms of the point of meditation in the first place, and the fact of reality, it is Mind alone.

The lesser vehicle of personal liberation is a temporary expedient as well …why is this?  It's another lie to trick you into the path, that's all.

That Suchness is reality is nominally due to the fact that it is neither absolute nor conditional.  Both Nirvana and Creation are the same illusion.  One is your mind before creation and the other is after.  Clinging to one or the other is delusion.  Neither absolute stillness nor karmic momentum is the essence of reality unified, present and naturally so, without ever entering creation.  This is your nature already.

Even those who experience sudden enlightenment must learn to realize this truth by APPLYING it in the midst of situations seamlessly.

You can begin to see this if you can dismiss your dependent relationships to circumstantial interpretations.  Reality doesn't look any different than delusion when your relationships to circumstances are not dependent on outcomes, good or bad.

Unified with reality all the time is just this awareness of the essential underlying nature of circumstantial process as your own potential.

When you act based on karmic dependence, you change enlightening potential into karmic debt.

Ouch!
Greetings to you deci belle, whoever you are, your narretion over the nature of reality has been completed.
I am very delighted reading your Expressed Elucidation. Many thanks.

RE: Non-duality Realized all the time?
Answer
10/2/18 11:29 AM as a reply to Jinxed P.
Jinxed P:
So lately I have been listening to a few Sam Harris conversations about his new book coming out called Waking Up. What he seems to be saying is that you can experience non-duality or no-self during meditation, but then that experience goes away. You can then bring it back up again in a later meditation, when you are again analyzing (trying to find the self) and not finding it. He says some people can live their whole life with a no-self experience.

My question is when you reach stream entry, is that just a momentary glimpse into no-self that then fades away? Is 4th path the experience of non-duality that is present at all times? While before that you have seen non-duality, but it's not always there unless you look for it?


I am not impressed with Sam Harris's depth of insight, which is not
to say that his book was uninteresting. But he has clearly not realized
4th path yet. Yes in short, non-duality is the natural state all the
time at 4th path. Anatta and non-duality is always already so, so it is a
matter of how deeply this 'always already so' truth is seen and sinked
in. There's no more entering nor exiting a state of non-duality when the
realization has settled down.

Speaking from experience here, as I
have attained MCTB 4th path, Seventh Stage of the Thusness Seven
Stages, Tenth Stage of the Ten Oxherding Pictures of Zen, etc.


p.s. Daniel himself wrote, 'Finally, the Wisdom Eye cycles and insight
cycles all converge, and the thing stays open from then on, which is to
say that at that point it all seems the same whether or not the eye is
open, which it actually was. That being seen, nothing can erode or
disturb the centerlessness of perspective, and life goes on.', 'All
these years later the field has never destabilized again, the wobble
never recurred, and things never un-synced. I knew when it happened that
my vipassana quest was over. I had the answer I sought, and it has held
up, event after event, challenge after challenge, cycle after cycle.'

RE: Non-duality Realized all the time?
Answer
10/2/18 10:41 AM as a reply to deci belle.
deci belle:
Non-duality Realized all the time?

That's because, reality is already Mind— your mind, right now.  Perhaps you are not ready to hear this, but this is the nondual section, after all.


Interesting post, I would only add that this is to be extended to all sensory experiences, all colors, all sounds, all sensations.

For example, hear the arising of any sound attentively. Without Awareness (as some background), what is that? Hear attentively... how clear and vivid... hear the tone, the 'texture and fabric', that is mind. The 'texture and fabric' of sound. That too is Mind and no other. That is true non-duality emoticon

RE: Non-duality Realized all the time?
Answer
10/2/18 7:12 PM as a reply to Jinxed P.
In the seeing, only the seen,
In the hearing, only the heard
...
In the 'selfing', only the self.

Isn't this non-duality?
Once realized, could it be "un-realized"?

RE: Non-duality Realized all the time?
Answer
10/2/18 10:36 PM as a reply to Todo.
Todo:
In the seeing, only the seen,
In the hearing, only the heard
...
In the 'selfing', only the self.

Isn't this non-duality?
Once realized, could it be "un-realized"?


In the 'selfing', only bunch of luminous, transient, empty vibrations falsely 'congealing' into a 'self' where in reality it is never a self. Just like a rope appearing as a snake is never truly a snake even though it appears so.

No-self is always already so. In the seeing, only the seen, no seer. In hearing, only the heard, no hearer. In 'selfing', 'selfing' is also a dependently originating activity, arising due to conditions and not through an agent, doer, self, perceiver. Thus in rightly seeing this 'selfing' activity, it ceases to be held as a solid, truly existing self, vantage point, knower, center, doer, etc.

Once realized it cannot be unrealized.

RE: Non-duality Realized all the time?
Answer
10/3/18 6:10 AM as a reply to An Eternal Now.
<p>Nailed!</p>

<p>Now, the fun can begin! Who would have thought that the end is just the beginning?!.</p>