I’ve been meditating a little over a year, initially via an 8 week MBSR course, then a 10-day Goenka retreat (where I crossed the A&P - disolving into vibrations followed by a flow of love and compassion like hot fudge - and things got interesting) . In the past three months I’ve attended another two 10-day retreats (one Goenka and the other at ICM [in U Ba Khin tradition… very similar but not the same as the Goenka]). Three months after the first Goenka retreat I entered a week of unusual imperturbability with strong equanimity, loving kindness, spontaneous joy, and compassion accompanied by an almost permanent easy smile while out and about in NYC ... I couldn't imagine life could get much better than that. Self diagnostics in hindsite suggests I entered the equinimity nana (I'll post seperately regarding that as I do have some questions) in the wake of which the idea that it’d be useful to have access to a teacher, in addition to an opportunity for more intensive practice, became prominent.

I’ve been trying to sit for 2-3+ hrs a day. I have the time now for a longish retreat, but very little money (and I don’t forsee the money part changing anytime soon as I’m an artist with a simple life). A place like IMS has been booked for many months and is way too expensive. I've been looking to get as much retreat time in, but even 10-day retreats seem booked solid into the future. I was planning to apply for the Gunaratana 9-day Jhana retreat at the Bhavana Society for next month (developing concentration is high on my list) and although I planned and applied on the day registration opened, it was booked and closed! So I'm finding myself in an odd predicament of having the motivation (there's nothing else that matters as much to me at present) and time, but not a venue. 

The first Goenka retreat last November was followed by 6 weeks camping in the desert climbing and meditating ... and experiencing the Dark Night which led me to seek an explanation of what I was undergoing. To that end I've been studying and researching daily since January trying to gain a conceptual understanding of the experiences that I've had and what continued practice might entail. In that research I'd come across Bill Hamilton’s book Saints and Psychopaths, and afterwards MCTB. I like what Bill has to say about the economics of a long-term retreat in Burma: for the price of a plane ticket it’s likely less expensive than a similar retreat in the USA, with the added bonus of experiencing a non-western culture for the first time in my life vs. seeing an American suburb.

Although I’ve read Mahasi’s books and this site is of course weighted towards noting practice - of which I’m interested - I’d been doing the anapana/body scan via Goenka to date, as the price is right, and I have no issue with body scanning as I’ve not really done much else, a little kasina practice and some brief excursions into noting. The Goenka organizational system however seems overly rigid in its structure and method of progression. I have the time NOW to commit to practice, however in the Goenka system I’d have to practice for two years (and do the same 10-day course/instruction over and over) before the opportunity to do a twenty day course with advanced instruction … I think that and the variability of the assistant teachers are the system’s weaknesses (although I had a good teacher with informative private interviews during my last sit). Although I’m grateful for the Goenka courses I‘ve taken and the insights that resulted there from, I do not see myself fitting cleanly within that structure, so I’m looking to experiment and broaden my horizons.

Research has my prime candidate as Panditarama: either the special westerner’s forest retreat in Burma (2 months) or a stint in Lumbini, Nepal (or both?). I can commit to a maximum of 4-5 months. The objective is to deepen my practice, get estabished in noting with some good instruction, develope my concentration, and attain stream entry.  Specifically I'm considering perhaps doing 2 months +/- at Lumbini Oct-Nov and/or two months in Burma at the special retreat in December-January. True, I’ve never done more than a 10 day sit, but the three 10-day retreats I’ve done I was a little sad when they ended as it seemed a shame to prematurely stop my momentum when I had deepened my concentration. I want to engage this with a deeper commitment and I want to do it ASAP.

What does Panditarama want to see in a retreat applicant? Is it necessary to undertake formal Mahasi noting training prior to being accepted for a retreat? Over the many months I’ve looked around on the East coast (I’m in NYC) but there do not seem to be any inexpensive (i.e. dirtbag) options and for doing such.
 
Any thoughts on this or alternative options to do 2+ month long retreat on a dirtbag budget?
Thanks a bunch.

howdy MF,
have you ever considered doing a self-retreat?  in some ways they are much better than organized ones in that you can do your own thing in whatever schedule you want to.

there are some things you can prepare ahead of time like frozen food.  shut off the cell, hide the tv in the closet and tell all of your firends you are on vacation and unreachable.

congratulations and good luck!

tom

Lumbini gets a lot of good press and reviews these days. Panditarama has a place associated with it that is a bit more suited for westerners and more designed for them: might look into that if you want to brave Myanmar.

MBMC in Penang also takes Westerners: could check them out these days: teachers vary and how good their English is varies.

Given a choice of all of those, I would think about Lumbini first.

I would read Practical Insight Meditation a few times and practice the basic techniques in it to get them down pat.

Hi Tom,
This spring I'd been accepted to two 10-day retreats (IMC and Goenka) separated by a two week period. I figured if I could ramp up my meditation prior to going into the first retreat, then meditate like 8-10 hours a day in the two weeks between retreats, followed by perhaps a similar regimen after the second 10-day retreat ended, that I could fashion a retreat of a month or month and a half in duration in an attempt at stream entry. But I also had a Plan B (intensive retreat in Southest Asia and the reason for this post).

I live in NYC in a large apartment with two other roommates but with seperate bathrooms, so good privacy. There’s an inconsiderate upstairs neighbor in regards to noise that can make meditation challenging at times (I’d occasionally go outside to meditate, for ex. in Central Park late at night in winter in freezing temps to evade the neighbor noise … although I’m also making improvements in enduring the distractions at home more equanimously). Just as this self-retreat plan commensed one of my roommates got fired from her job and instead of being at work was  home all day yakking loudly on her phone often on speakerphone. Then other unexpected stuff that needed taking care of came up. At the second retreat I'd planned to volunteer and give dana service for a couple days after it ended and our meditation was only three hours during those two days. During that retreat my recently fired roommate emailed me that she was moving to another state to take a job offer, but unfortunately I didn’t receive the email until noble silence ended like 8 days later, and to complicate matters I left my (non smartphone) cell behind at the retreat. I’m responsible for the apartment and this made me very late in searching for a suitable new roommate, which involves endless communications and all day phone tag. Then my other roommate also made plans to move so lots of instability domestically. A long winded way of stating that conditions have to be optimal with many factors in alignment for a slf retreat to successfully occur. Asta la vista Plan A. In fact I’ve missed several daily sits in the past few weeks.

Plan B is to have done the previous two 10-day retreats, maybe try to do another 10-day this summer if I can get into one, keep up my daily meditation, then go to southeast Asia this fall/winter for 2-4 months immersive practice with instruction in the Mahasi tradition.

I did hit powerful A&P experiences at both recent retreats, particularly so in the latter one (body exploding into vibrations and pulsing/throbbing very heavily also with optical effects for half an hour after meditation ended) and am still crossing the A&P fairly regularly on daily sits. The instructions from taking the Goenka course a second time were greatly beneficial, since I’d developed some poor habits and misunderstandings of the technique since my first Goenka retreat 4 months prior. Also as an ‘old student’ I was offered a meditation cell to use in addition to meditating with the group in the meditation hall and I liked meditating alone in the cell (essentially a closet). I’d hit the Dark Night heavy after arriving back in NYC (which has made the new roommate search 'interesting').

Additionally, I really want to learn how to improve my technique. I want to be around accomplished meditators and in particular expert teachers. It was unfortunate to hit what I believe was equanimity back in February without understanding what it was and with no knowledge of what could be done in my practice to direct it towards stream entry and no one to turn to for guidance (in fact, at the time I experienced it and for a week or two prior I was meditating only sporadically and often not for a few days at a time, rather I was researching and reading about Buddhism very heavily all day). So I want to undertake a sustained retreat, but with qaulity instruction.

I don’t think the self-retreat idea is practical at this stage of my practice so I’m not seriously considering it.


Edited title: changed the word 'Resume' to 'Prerequisite'.

Monsoon Frog,

In terms of official prerequisites before one can practice at the Panditaramas, I don't believe there are any. I did my second retreat at the Hse Main Gon location about four years ago. My only retreat time prior to that was a 10 day retreat at Spirit Rock. The nun who handled my intake was slightly perturbed that I arrived on a tourist visa and without seeking advance permission, but it was not a big deal. That stay at Panditarama was three weeks, so maybe there is more scrutiny for those applying for the "special" retreat.

Overall, I got the impression that they prefer to get people who are not highly indoctrinated into another tradition or technique, which makes sense. If anything, I think the most important prerequisite is the ability to handle the daily routine, which is quite rigorous. I haven’t sat a retreat in the Goenka tradition but from what I understand they are more or less comparable in that regard. 

Like Daniel, I have heard that the Hse Main Gon (forest) location is more suitable for westerners than the urban location in Rangoon. I found it to be perfectly comfortable and agreeable. I was there during the off season (Oct/Nov) so I had my own room-- there were only about fifteen men practicing, mostly monks, and I was the only westerner. The food is really good. The grounds are beautiful and inspiring, although you won't be seeing much of it other than the route from your kuti to the meditation hall and from the meditation hall to the dining hall. You're expected to remain in the hall or immediately outside it at all times except during meals, and during a brief (~30 min) break period following meals. 

I've also heard very good things about the Lumbini location and in particular about the abbot, Sayadaw Vivekananda. I sat a multi-month retreat last year with a lay western teacher who regularly teaches with him, and she told me that for somebody looking to practice with a progress of insight orientation, Vivekananda is the go-to guy. He speaks a number of languages fluently, including English. So if one were to go to Lumbini it would make sense to time it to coincide with his presence there.

-M

Hi Daniel,
I've read many fine reports from Panditarama Lumbini so it's been my primary focus.
OTOH, in Myanmar at Panditarama Forest Center in Hse Main Gon they conduct what's called a Special Sixty Day Retreat during December and January geared specifically towards foreign meditators.
 
One thought was perhaps going to Lumbini in Nepal for 4-8 weeks sometime in September – November, and then either staying on for some time longer, or heading to Myanmar for the Sixty Day Retreat in December/January, based of course on where my head was at after the Lumbini retreat.
 
MBMC isn’t easy to get solid reliable info on and from what I read online is unclear.
 
I've read Mahasi's books and other variations of noting and done it a little, but not full bore. A week ago I ran into Burmese Mahasi monk (and meditation teacher) on the street here in Brooklyn (orange robes) and had a good conversation with him. He resides at a temple 6 blocks from me that's part of the America Burma Buddhist Association (ABBA). He's been in the USA for about a decade. We talked about meditation and while I mentioned my interest in Mahasi, he said he'd done a 10-day U Ba Khin retreat and found it very beneficial, and thought the anapana (5 days*) was challenging and developed concentration. Although I think they are geared more towards the Burmese population in NYC, I'm considering meeting with the head monk and seeing if there's a way to get some Mahasi instruction there. 
 
One tertiary interest is that I’m a climber and Nepal offers an opportunity to see the Himalayas, perhaps do some site seeing/trekking pre or post retreat. 
 
 
*From my understanding U Ba Khin's 10-day course originally was structured with 5.5 days of anapana before teaching Vipassana/body scan. However, Burmese politics changed and foreigners were only able to get a one week visa, so the course was changed to a 7-day course, with the first half (3.5 days) devoted to anapana. Goenka's courses retain this 3.5 day anapana structure. The IMC course I took recently devotes 5.5 days solely to anapana. 

Hi Max,
I emailed my application for the Panditarama Special Retreat back in April when registration opened and I detailed my prior experiences, that I’d been practicing in the U Ba Khin/ Goenka tradition, but had some familiarity with Mahasi having read his books, read countless reports of meditators online, had done some practice with noting myself, and wanted to engage Mahasi’s methods more intensely.

I got a reply asking if I knew it was taught in the Mahasi tradition and that I should get some information on Mahasi first and get back to them. I’m not sure if there was some communication misunderstanding (although my application was detailed and crystal clear and their reply was in faultless English) or if this was some sort of admonition to get some more Mahasi experience prior to considering applying, or something else.  

You also raise an important point regarding Vivekananda’s schedule at Lumbini. It’s something I need to examine more closely.
I want to get clear on this ASAP because it’s rapidly approaching and very soon I’ll need to get moving to arrange passport and visas, make travel plans, and order my stuff in NYC during my absence.  

That’s the reason for this thread, to get some input into what the procedure is. I do understand that there’s an element of exclusivity/proprietary practices evident in many lineages, which will have to be navigated.  I have the summer/fall/winter available, the energy, and the motivation and I want to make this happen. 

I've heard that Myanmar is a truly exotic place and it'd be novel to visit a place so overwhelmingly Buddhist. 

Frogger,

The email exchange you describe sounds odd. It's likely that the person on the other end is a native english speaker, so I doubt it was a language issue. I'm also fairly confident that they would not expect you to do any kind of preliminary training or study prior to arriving, because they will provide you with comprehensive sitting and walking instructions on your first day. My guess is that they just want to be really certain that you are planning on following their instructions if you go there. Yogis are definitely not welcome to engage in other practices or modify the technique while staying at the center. I imagine they get a decent number of westerners who have done some other kind of meditation and think they know what's up, and they want to nip that in the bud.

One thing to point out about doing a retreat in Myanmar, which perhaps you have seen mentioned elsewhere, is that if you go there on a meditation visa (required for stays longer than 28 days), you are not supposed to travel for touristic purposes, at all. You would be able to see some sights in Rangoon when transiting into and out of the country, but that's about it. The government considers you a liability of the monastic institution sponsoring your visa, so they're the ones that take the heat if there is a problem. 

Nepal has no comparable visa issues, and as you mention, the himalayas are majestic. Like you, I am (maybe I should say "was" now) a climber and have been up in the mountains there on a few occasions, though this was in my teens and early twenties, before I got into meditation or buddhism.

Max, I understand the need to restrict a meditator's practice to the system being taught.  I was clear in my application what my goal was. I want to learn and master the Mahasi system and through that achieve stream entry. Although I am an artist and climber I have no other goal right now than that, and everything in my life is being reshaped to make that happen. I’m not sure what I’d need to do to drive that point home to the application personnel. Anyway, it’s a mystery to me and I have extremely limited experience in how the world of meditation centers and monasteries operate.
Although Myanmar sounds rad and it’d be cool to spend a couple days poking around, my goal is to apply myself to full-on meditation and not to touring around.

If in Nepal I'd like to have some exposure to the granduer of the mountians if at all possible, but again my gaol is to wear my ass down meditating.

Thanks again for sharing your experiences it's very helpful.


Edit: removed off topic content destined for another thread

After further consideration I’ve decided to do the retreat at Panditarama Lumbini under the guidance of Sayadaw U Vivekanada. I’ve communicated with him regarding this several weeks ago and he’s invited me to practice at Lumbini for an initial period of one month, with the option to extend it another month if my teachers agree.
In a couple weeks I fly to Kathmandu. For about three weeks I’ll do a trek in the Annapurna region of the Himalayas after which I’ll head to Lumbini for the retreat. I’ve allotted a maximum retreat duration of 100 days.  

Thanks for all the input to great input to make this happen!

Hi Monsoon Frog,

Happy to hear you've headed off to Panditarama Lumbini for a retreat! You must be there right now so I don't know when you'll be able to read and respond to this message. 

I also plan to go on a retreat at the Center and wanted to ask you how you managed to contact them. I've e-mailed them a few weeks ago but nobody's gotten back to me. I've also tried calling them but all I could do is leave a message on the answering machine. Any tips would be welcome.

Best,

Cem

Hi MonsoonFrog

It would be great to hear about your experiences at Lumbini.  I am planning to go there myself next year after, like you, trekking the Annapurna circuit.  Some questions to guide your response:

• How long did you stay?
• How were the teachers and instruction?
• Did you reach your goal of stream-entry?
• Did you get much 1 on 1 time for interviews or were they a group experience?
• Overvall how do you feel now about the experience?

Any advice appreciated.