What is the most efficient way of practicing metta?

What is the most efficient way of practicing metta? Shaun Ivan Muzic 6/27/14 6:04 AM
RE: What is the most efficient way of practicing metta? katy steger,thru11.6.15 with thanks 6/27/14 10:14 AM
RE: What is the most efficient way of practicing metta? Shaun Ivan Muzic 6/27/14 10:27 AM
RE: What is the most efficient way of practicing metta? katy steger,thru11.6.15 with thanks 6/27/14 11:31 AM
RE: What is the most efficient way of practicing metta? katy steger,thru11.6.15 with thanks 6/27/14 3:27 PM
RE: What is the most efficient way of practicing metta? Shaun Ivan Muzic 6/27/14 5:35 PM
RE: What is the most efficient way of practicing metta? Karalee Peltomaa 10/13/14 6:26 PM
RE: What is the most efficient way of practicing metta? Shaun Ivan Muzic 6/27/14 5:30 PM
RE: What is the most efficient way of practicing metta? katy steger,thru11.6.15 with thanks 6/27/14 10:13 PM
RE: What is the most efficient way of practicing metta? Shaun Ivan Muzic 6/28/14 2:45 AM
RE: What is the most efficient way of practicing metta? katy steger,thru11.6.15 with thanks 6/28/14 5:24 AM
RE: What is the most efficient way of practicing metta? Viran Shaminda Kariyawasam 8/21/14 5:33 AM
RE: What is the most efficient way of practicing metta? Dream Walker 6/27/14 12:51 PM
RE: What is the most efficient way of practicing metta? Shaun Ivan Muzic 6/27/14 5:36 PM
RE: What is the most efficient way of practicing metta? bernd the broter 6/27/14 2:28 PM
RE: What is the most efficient way of practicing metta? Shaun Ivan Muzic 6/28/14 2:47 AM
RE: What is the most efficient way of practicing metta? bernd the broter 9/18/14 12:04 PM
RE: What is the most efficient way of practicing metta? Shaun Ivan Muzic 9/18/14 12:23 PM
RE: What is the most efficient way of practicing metta? bernd the broter 9/19/14 3:18 AM
RE: What is the most efficient way of practicing metta? Eva Nie 8/21/14 9:34 PM
thumbnail
Shaun Ivan Muzic, modified 9 Years ago at 6/27/14 6:04 AM
Created 9 Years ago at 6/27/14 5:46 AM

What is the most efficient way of practicing metta?

Posts: 22 Join Date: 6/9/14 Recent Posts
Greetings, you might know me from my previous thread in which I inquired about work-related anxiety. In regard to that, before I state my question:
  • I must say that Daniel was right, that on further introspection I was passing through a very difficult period of what I now see to be the Dark Night, complete with near-psychotic episodes. The readings I've found even off this site and resources described similar experiences, right up to reobservation and the "rolling up the mat" phase: I yearned to be able to retire in a monastery, but I realize that if I had been in a monastery while having that experience I'd probably have felt the desire to leave.
    However, I've heard an experience I find difficult to describe. The result is that I feel I understand the First Noble Truth more deeply, and renunciation has become so much easier. It is difficult to describe the way I feel. Nothing has changed, but everything seems so much further away. I do not behave in the same way anymore: I stopped evading my experiences all together and don't resort to addictive experiences at all. I feel out of their grasp.

    The negative point though is that I've become much less motivated to do anything. I spent around an hour staring at ants yesterday, and it was interesting to say the least. My natural curiosity remains, but nothing more.
Now, about the question.
Cause: I do not feel compassion. Though detachment comes easy to me now, I realize I do not feel remotely any sense of compassion towards people around me. I'm not even sure what I feel towards myself can be defined as compassion. I kind of (distantly) get the teachings on interconnectedness, but I don't see it. I find myself at odds with the usual description in the suttas, especially the Karaniya Metta. I don't see life as particularly valuable, and I don't see how we're all connected.

Question:
Since the Buddha ascribes importance to this, and I'm starting to trust him a lot more, I'm wondering if this might be very important at this point. Especially also since Daniel considers it the basis of morality and intentional action (which I think is especially important to consider since I find myself wondering if there's anything worth to do, from the reason above). The thing is, I've been searching for instructions for the past day, and there are differing views:
  • Loving-kindness (Sharon Salzberg): Metta in this view means "loving-kindness", and one is supposed to cultivate feelings of loving-kindness as a practice, in expanding circles. I'm certain you know what I'm talking about. I feel disinclined to this approach, but it may be personal preference talking. I'd like to hear your opinions.
  • Good will (Bhikkhu Thanissaro): In the past three years, Thanissaro has slightly changed his translationof metta as "good-will", involving less emotional content and more cognitive intent. There's his free talk about it if someone's interested.
  • Other traditions (Vajrayana, Tibetan): I'd prefer to rule these out because I prefer to stick with one raft of teachings, in this case Theravada. Though other traditions have their known proponents (Pema Chodron and her teachers), I want to stick with one set of teachings, if for nothing else then because I think I remember the Buddha also advising not changing views often.
  • Suttas only (Bhante V): I've only recently been introduced to this point of view, and know nothing about it yet.
There may be even others I'm not aware of.

Aim: I'd like to find an explanation and practice of metta that shows me better how interconnected we are and why is it valuable to help others. For instance, a good point Thanissaro makes in his talk is that lovingkindness isn't always the most skillful feeling to have related to others. We may at most render conditions of others more conducive to studying the dharma, but we cannot make them happy.

Could you please help me out?

And in general, I also want to see more clearly: what is the Right Intention for any kind of action? If we cannot help people directly to reach happiness, what is the point of action?
thumbnail
katy steger,thru11615 with thanks, modified 9 Years ago at 6/27/14 10:14 AM
Created 9 Years ago at 6/27/14 10:09 AM

RE: What is the most efficient way of practicing metta?

Posts: 1740 Join Date: 10/1/11 Recent Posts
HI Ivan,

"Now, about the question.
Cause: I do not feel compassion. Though detachment comes easy to me now, I realize I do not feel remotely any sense of compassion towards people around me. I'm not even sure what I feel towards myself can be defined as compassion. I kind of (distantly) get the teachings on interconnectedness, but I don't see it. I find myself at odds with the usual description in the suttas, especially the Karaniya Metta. I don't see life as particularly valuable, and I don't see how we're all connected."

(...)

Question: Since the Buddha ascribes importance to this, and I'm starting to trust him a lot more, I'm wondering if this might be very important at this point. Especially also since Daniel considers it the basis of morality and intentional action (which I think is especially important to consider since I find myself wondering if there's anything worth to do, from the reason above
).

(...)

Aim:
 I'd like to find an explanation and practice of metta that shows me better how interconnected we are and why is it valuable to help others.

So when you're moving about, how are you perceiving your experience/life, for example, sometimes people sometimes call their perception "movie-like" (espeically after seeing movies : ) ?  How do you perceive in/via the senses (including consciousness) the detachment that comes easily to you now?
Thank you.
thumbnail
Shaun Ivan Muzic, modified 9 Years ago at 6/27/14 10:27 AM
Created 9 Years ago at 6/27/14 10:24 AM

RE: What is the most efficient way of practicing metta?

Posts: 22 Join Date: 6/9/14 Recent Posts
It seems like I'm constantly aware of the fact that experience is always tinged with dukkha. It's a visceral kind of understanding that is very different from my previous intellectual understanding, and it has been growing stronger ever since something "clicked" in my understanding while, of all things, watching a movie. This realization leads me to abandon any kind of sensual satisfaction as soon as it comes, and lets me stay with urges that used to be problematic.

Apart from this realization, nothing has really changed. The way I view the world is the same. I feel no more or less holy or emotional, apart from the liberation of an enormous amount of fear and compulsion. The strongest thing that remains is curiosity.

Perhaps I can be the clearest if I'm allowed to employ a rather tasteless example. Up until around ten days ago, I've been very prone to sexual self-gratification, for the lack of a more elegant term. I used to engage in it at least twice a day. Since this realization, I've abandoned it. Though without the intention really of abandoning it. I feel the urges, I can feel the desire. But I know on a very deep level that it won't satisfy me, and I don't feel the compulsion to change how I feel.

Sorry for the crude example... However, this has been a very noticeable change. I can't remember if I have ever abstained for more than 4 days in a row, and yet I've tried on multiple occasions to get rid of it. In this sense I say that I feel a difference in my experience, that I call detachment - I feel the urges, but I can calmly stay with them.

EDIT: The negative flipside of it is that I feel less motivated to do anything else. It is this I want to explore. I guess the practice of metta is necessary to regain the necessary motivation. But what is the most effective way to practice it?
thumbnail
katy steger,thru11615 with thanks, modified 9 Years ago at 6/27/14 11:31 AM
Created 9 Years ago at 6/27/14 11:24 AM

RE: What is the most efficient way of practicing metta?

Posts: 1740 Join Date: 10/1/11 Recent Posts
Hi Ivan, 

On this site I find the topic of sexual gratification is often, and it's usually a very useful, honest topic since it is a primary reason we exist and meditation often studies existence and perception of own-existence. Thank you for your consideration about its broader social sensitivity though.  By way of analogy, trees-- these lovely shade-givers of near-patterns I like to gaze at-- when I actually observe them, they've got their hot pants on all the time, competing against and sexing it up with their neighbors, sun-hoarding, showing their nuts...

Anyway, so yours attenuated after you realized something about the unreliable source of happiness in sexual gratification, even in its safest, most efficient form. A whiz bang of feeling and then back to not-whiz bang feeling; pleasure then not-pleasure/end of pleasure-dukkha.
Apart from this realization, nothing has really changed. The way I view the world is the same. I feel no more or less holy or emotional, apart from the liberation of an enormous amount of fear and compulsion. The strongest thing that remains is curiosity.
(...)
EDIT: The negative flipside of it is that I feel less motivated to do anything else. It is this I want to explore. I guess the practice of metta is necessary to regain the necessary motivation. But what is the most effective way to practice it?

A big pleasure has been attenuated; meaning, the actual brain will experience less of a chemical reward for the activity. But the brains still knows what the bigger chemical reward felt like, knows its last high water mark, so to speak, it's just not able to get the same high from the previous activity now.

So what is curiosity doing? Does this curiosity you mentioned having now have nearly the neural pathways to pleasaure that the previous activity had? And does one want to keep building neural pathways to big pleasure when these are eventually seen through as going no where?

So what is curiosity when it is de-coupled from pleasure; what is the brain when it does action without being in the suite of pleasure-hunting/pain-avoiding. Is looking for more motivation actually the brain looking for its big reward ("high water mark") from some new source? So curiousity-- what is curiosity de-coupled from pleasure-hunting (not without pleasure, just not dependent on pleasure) and pain avoidance?
thumbnail
katy steger,thru11615 with thanks, modified 9 Years ago at 6/27/14 3:27 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 6/27/14 11:51 AM

RE: What is the most efficient way of practicing metta? (Answer)

Posts: 1740 Join Date: 10/1/11 Recent Posts
Posty scripty: In my opinion, Ivan raises a good point which is often antipated in meditational practice; along side the risks of developing arrogance and strong self-reference, and/or exagerrated dissociation, one can develop a depression, like depressed power in will, "will power", the will to act/move/ do/plan/be anything other than be.

So if a person has a lot of the habit of negative (self-)thinking when they also realise the unreliable happiness in anything ("dukkha") these two ways of perception can compound and make one perceive very badly, very sadly, very madly. So certain meditation is not for everyone all the time-- and buddhist meditation is sometimes held to its "emptiness" aspect which feels like "nothingness" to the depressed mind. So this is one reason there are advisories/cautions all over the mediation retreat liability forms.

But this is true of any deeply practiced hobby. Look at depression in any mastery/master and one will see the wrenching discovery "Is this a worthwile activity? Am I worthwhile? What is worthwhile? What if everything is worth nothing?" This is nothinginess realization, not emptiness realization, but these realizations sit super-close to each other in the transitioning actual brain, I think.

So one way metta helps is it's an activity, an active training for the brain that's just had its pleasure source removed or undermined. In one way, it's similar to giving a person "the patch" when they quit smoking, except that is a passive relief.  Metta is an active relief. So it is more like telling a person after bariatric surgery: now let's exercise. Let's show the brain that there are many ways to pleasure and effort is one of the best. That effort is just one part of metta. Metta comes from the word "Mitto" which means "friend" in Pali... so "friendliness" is the practice effort of metta.

This metta, friendliness saturating perception or just having the ability to occasionally draw from it, can be useful to self and others as one is embarking on more "What is life? What am I? What is perception? What is worth? What is this? Where has pleasure gone? When pleasure goes, does it leave behind pain of no-pleasure...What is life? What am I? What are you? Is this worthwhile?" investigations. Because sometimes its very, very hard discovering the unreliablity of pleasure in many of one's actions and even one's worldview. A hard crumbing can happen before the curiosity and living re-start-- sort of where the (re)new(ed) practice starts after the floor gets torn up. It can be very hard.

Hi Ivan-- this is just a context around what you've written in case others are reading and dealing with some heavy side-effects to having perception changes. I'm not sure it would relate to you at all.

This topic is wonderful, too, that you've raised. It has application all the time. I've noticed that before presenting at Buddhist Geeks some presenters have "gotten in shape" (I would, too). What is motivating these meditation leaders to shape up before a conference in which they present? The issue of variable motivation/will, pleasure, and practice-- clearly arises even in these initial teachers of many years. Who is not telegraphing the continuity of own-practice by way of clear signs of cycling in indulgence and restraint? So motivation/will and pleasure are trainings which clear challenge newbies and "teachers of X-years". Great topic.

So motivation and metta are obviously related and not related. Metta will help a mind that's gotten pleasure from safe-self-sex learn another source of skilfullful pleasure: well wishing and friendliness towards others (which will help the mind feel this way to own-self... where as others-hatred/distain trains the mind in hatred and will train the mind to mock/hate own-self).

And motivation/ will-in-being doing... this is rich emoticon
thumbnail
Dream Walker, modified 9 Years ago at 6/27/14 12:51 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 6/27/14 12:47 PM

RE: What is the most efficient way of practicing metta? (Answer)

Posts: 1657 Join Date: 1/18/12 Recent Posts
Shaun Ivan Muzic:
Aim: I'd like to find an explanation and practice of metta that shows me better how interconnected we are and why is it valuable to help others.
This is a really cool article by Daniel that may help

Magick and the Brahma Viharas

My personal take on it is....Regardless of how you label the actual feeling of loving kindness, it is about stimulating the area of the brain that can generate this feeling and making the connections stronger and more accessible in daily life.
I find that living life with experiencing reality thru a loving lens tends to counteract experiencing reality thru the stress center lens. Try it and see what you think.
Good luck,
~D

Edit: google this ---> site:http://www.dharmaoverground.org metta practice   <---- lots of discussion threads available.
thumbnail
bernd the broter, modified 9 Years ago at 6/27/14 2:28 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 6/27/14 2:28 PM

RE: What is the most efficient way of practicing metta? (Answer)

Posts: 376 Join Date: 6/13/12 Recent Posts
Hey,
I read most of your other thread, and my recommendation is based on my own experience.

I practiced > 600 hours of Vipassana. Those were valuable (especially for getting out of confusion caused by crossing A&P), but didn't significantly increase morality.

I was later drawn to practicing Metta, which proved to be a very good idea. In the course of Metta practice, I discovered (and still am discovering) A LOT of anger to myself, which I had been totally oblivious to beforehand. Dissolving all this anger is something I now wish I had started to do 15 years ago.

When I read your other thread, something was very familiar to me: you describe how you were nearly ready to be miserable for the rest of your life, so your parents and other people with expectations wouldn't be disappointed.
Think about that again. Doesn't that strike you as plainly wrong? Why not?
If you had any goodwill for yourself, how could you genuinely consider this course of action?
Imagine someone who you have goodwill for. Would you expect the same thing from that person?

So here's an idea:
Start to practice Metta. Start with the first (and maybe with the second person), but be sure to not neglect the first person (yourself).
This will probably be difficult, which means you really need it.

So, how to practice this efficiently? I like the method which I learned from Bhante Sujato.
I wrote a lot about his method and my experiences in my old posts, in which you can also find links to audios in which the method is explained.
I consider it to be very simple (which doesn't mean easy) and idiot-proof.
But I'm not sure if it's so easy to learn it without a teacher, especially if you have little to no experience with meditation.
So if you can, find a qualified Metta teacher for personal assistance. If not, go ahead and try it out. If there are difficulties, post them here.

Best luck with whatever you choose to try.
thumbnail
Shaun Ivan Muzic, modified 9 Years ago at 6/27/14 5:30 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 6/27/14 5:30 PM

RE: What is the most efficient way of practicing metta?

Posts: 22 Join Date: 6/9/14 Recent Posts
katy steger:
So what is curiosity when it is de-coupled from pleasure; what is the brain when it does action without being in the suite of pleasure-hunting/pain-avoiding. Is looking for more motivation actually the brain looking for its big reward ("high water mark") from some new source? So curiousity-- what is curiosity de-coupled from pleasure-hunting (not without pleasure, just not dependent on pleasure) and pain avoidance?

I thought that it might be the brain looking for a new source... however, it's more than that. I've held the Karaniya Metta sutta in higher regard. I'd like for my aspirations to at least be similar to those described. As of right now, they're no way close - I'm nowhere near compassionate. Which brings me to think I'm not practicing correctly.
thumbnail
Shaun Ivan Muzic, modified 9 Years ago at 6/27/14 5:35 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 6/27/14 5:35 PM

RE: What is the most efficient way of practicing metta?

Posts: 22 Join Date: 6/9/14 Recent Posts
katy steger:
But this is true of any deeply practiced hobby. Look at depression in any mastery/master and one will see the wrenching discovery "Is this a worthwile activity? Am I worthwhile? What is worthwhile? What if everything is worth nothing?" This is nothinginess realization, not emptiness realization, but these realizations sit super-close to each other in the transitioning actual brain, I think.

...

This metta, friendliness saturating perception or just having the ability to occasionally draw from it, can be useful to self and others as one is embarking on more "What is life? What am I? What is perception? What is worth? What is this? Where has pleasure gone? When pleasure goes, does it leave behind pain of no-pleasure...What is life? What am I? What are you? Is this worthwhile?" investigations. Because sometimes its very, very hard discovering the unreliablity of pleasure in many of one's actions and even one's worldview. A hard crumbing can happen before the curiosity and living re-start-- sort of where the (re)new(ed) practice starts after the floor gets torn up. It can be very hard.

...

What is motivating these meditation leaders to shape up before a conference in which they present? The issue of variable motivation/will, pleasure, and practice-- clearly arises even in these initial teachers of many years. Who is not telegraphing the continuity of own-practice by way of clear signs of cycling in indulgence and restraint?
So motivation and metta are obviously related and not related. Metta will help a mind that's gotten pleasure from safe-self-sex learn another source of skilfullful pleasure: well wishing and friendliness towards others (which will help the mind feel this way to own-self... where as others-hatred/distain trains the mind in hatred and will train the mind to mock/hate own-self).

The descriptions you've used above have been close to what I'm feeling right now. However, I'm still not clear on why I should act, what should be my motivation to do anything. Perhaps it is because my eyes are still closed to higher states, and I can only open them with metta. In which case - what would be the most effective practice?
thumbnail
Shaun Ivan Muzic, modified 9 Years ago at 6/27/14 5:36 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 6/27/14 5:36 PM

RE: What is the most efficient way of practicing metta?

Posts: 22 Join Date: 6/9/14 Recent Posts
Dream Walker:
Shaun Ivan Muzic:
Aim: I'd like to find an explanation and practice of metta that shows me better how interconnected we are and why is it valuable to help others.
This is a really cool article by Daniel that may help

Magick and the Brahma Viharas

My personal take on it is....Regardless of how you label the actual feeling of loving kindness, it is about stimulating the area of the brain that can generate this feeling and making the connections stronger and more accessible in daily life.
I find that living life with experiencing reality thru a loving lens tends to counteract experiencing reality thru the stress center lens. Try it and see what you think.
Good luck,
~D

Edit: google this ---> site:http://www.dharmaoverground.org metta practice   <---- lots of discussion threads available.

I've actually seen both links emoticon It's because of my initial doubts towards Sharon Salzberg's classical approach to metta that I've started to search for alternative, perhaps more precise methods. And it is through search of this forum that I've discovered Bhante V, who is turning out to be an excellent resource for studying. Thank you for your contribution though emoticon
thumbnail
Shaun Ivan Muzic, modified 9 Years ago at 6/28/14 2:47 AM
Created 9 Years ago at 6/27/14 5:38 PM

RE: What is the most efficient way of practicing metta?

Posts: 22 Join Date: 6/9/14 Recent Posts
bernd the broter:
Hey,
I read most of your other thread, and my recommendation is based on my own experience.

I practiced > 600 hours of Vipassana. Those were valuable (especially for getting out of confusion caused by crossing A&P), but didn't significantly increase morality.

I was later drawn to practicing Metta, which proved to be a very good idea. In the course of Metta practice, I discovered (and still am discovering) A LOT of anger to myself, which I had been totally oblivious to beforehand. Dissolving all this anger is something I now wish I had started to do 15 years ago.

When I read your other thread, something was very familiar to me: you describe how you were nearly ready to be miserable for the rest of your life, so your parents and other people with expectations wouldn't be disappointed.
Think about that again. Doesn't that strike you as plainly wrong? Why not?
If you had any goodwill for yourself, how could you genuinely consider this course of action?
Imagine someone who you have goodwill for. Would you expect the same thing from that person?

So here's an idea:
Start to practice Metta. Start with the first (and maybe with the second person), but be sure to not neglect the first person (yourself).
This will probably be difficult, which means you really need it.

So, how to practice this efficiently? I like the method which I learned from Bhante Sujato.
I wrote a lot about his method and my experiences in my old posts, in which you can also find links to audios in which the method is explained.
I consider it to be very simple (which doesn't mean easy) and idiot-proof.
But I'm not sure if it's so easy to learn it without a teacher, especially if you have little to no experience with meditation.
So if you can, find a qualified Metta teacher for personal assistance. If not, go ahead and try it out. If there are difficulties, post them here.

Best luck with whatever you choose to try.

Thank you for your words. Your answer resonated deeply with me and has clarified some thoughts I didn't know I have, while clearing some doubts. For now, then, I will find out more about this method, as well as look deeper into Bhante V's way of thinking. I hope I might come out somewhat wiser in the next days emoticon

EDIT: And thank you for your question about me... it seems that, even after an initial practice, I do also have a big amount of hate towards myself. I hope I may work towards purifying these, for the betterment of all beings.
thumbnail
katy steger,thru11615 with thanks, modified 9 Years ago at 6/27/14 10:13 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 6/27/14 10:07 PM

RE: What is the most efficient way of practicing metta?

Posts: 1740 Join Date: 10/1/11 Recent Posts
Hi Ivan,

So I would like to be clear about something here:
As of right now, they're no way close - I'm nowhere near compassionate. Which brings me to think I'm not practicing correctly.

If a male friend approached you and knew you had recently lost this indulgence in a nearly effortless, natural way and then asked for your help  with the exact same issue that he was having, would you tell him exactly what happened to you, would you listen to them without judgement/ or with judgement, would you share your own understanding/would you withhold your understanding of the compulsion and its personal effects? Would you be nowhere near compassionate in such a case? What do you think is compassionate?

(I'm not usually up for hypothical questions, but I think this proposal is fairly likely to happen to you, to anyone who loses a powerfully compulsive-reward behavior; people will naturally notice that and ask about it if they are still dealing with that compulsion.) 


Also you've mentioned connectedness: as in "I don't see how we're all connected" and value ("I don't see life as particularly valuable"), and the Karaniya Metta. What are the specific words in that sutta that resonate with you? Have you read a few translations? Whose is your preferred? I'm not asking in a book-club favorites way but to understand what aspect of metta in that sutta has your interest/concern.
thumbnail
Shaun Ivan Muzic, modified 9 Years ago at 6/28/14 2:45 AM
Created 9 Years ago at 6/28/14 2:45 AM

RE: What is the most efficient way of practicing metta?

Posts: 22 Join Date: 6/9/14 Recent Posts
katy steger:
If a male friend approached you and knew you had recently lost this indulgence in a nearly effortless, natural way and then asked for your help  with the exact same issue that he was having, would you tell him exactly what happened to you, would you listen to them without judgement/ or with judgement, would you share your own understanding/would you withhold your understanding of the compulsion and its personal effects? Would you be nowhere near compassionate in such a case? What do you think is compassionate?

Also you've mentioned connectedness: as in "I don't see how we're all connected" and value ("I don't see life as particularly valuable"), and the Karaniya Metta. What are the specific words in that sutta that resonate with you? Have you read a few translations? Whose is your preferred? I'm not asking in a book-club favorites way but to understand what aspect of metta in that sutta has your interest/concern.
1) I thought about that in that way... the thing is, I couldn't even imagine it happen to me. Sometimes I doubt it has really happened, but then I try to arouse the feeling of sexual want. I feel it, but it is very distant. I'm still having a hard time believing it. I'd advise my friend to try to practice metta, if only because I read it helps... which is why I'm here asking for a method.

2) The words that resonate with me, or better those I feel most distant from, are:

Think: Happy, at rest,
may all beings be happy at heart.
Whatever beings there may be,
    weak or strong, without exception,
    long, large,
    middling, short,
    subtle, blatant,
    seen & unseen,
    near & far,
    born & seeking birth:
May all beings be happy at heart.

Let no one deceive another
or despise anyone anywhere,
or through anger or resistance
wish for another to suffer.

As a mother would risk her life
to protect her child, her only child,
even so should one cultivate a limitless heart
with regard to all beings.
With good will for the entire cosmos,
cultivate a limitless heart:
Above, below, & all around,
unobstructed, without hostility or hate.
Whether standing, walking,
sitting, or lying down,
    as long as one is alert,
one should be resolved on this mindfulness.
This is called a sublime abiding
    here & now.

I feel very distant to these words. The translation is from Thanissaro Bhikkhu's. Which is why I'm here asking for a method...

However, I think I have my answer now.
I'm going to practice for two weeks according to Bhante V's instructions. If it works even remotely, good. I'll stick to it. If not, I'll try Bhante Sujato's method, and then I'm going to stick with whichever method worked better. In any case, I start my practice now.

Thank you all for your answers and your time! Have a blessed day emoticon
thumbnail
katy steger,thru11615 with thanks, modified 9 Years ago at 6/28/14 5:24 AM
Created 9 Years ago at 6/28/14 5:21 AM

RE: What is the most efficient way of practicing metta?

Posts: 1740 Join Date: 10/1/11 Recent Posts
However, I think I have my answer now.
I'm going to practice for two weeks according to Bhante V's instructions. If it works even remotely, good. I'll stick to it. If not, I'll try Bhante Sujato's method, and then I'm going to stick with whichever method worked better. In any case, I start my practice now.

Awesome. Following a plan with sincerity and determination was key to me a few years ago (and remains so). It took me about four days to stop fighting the practice actively, to see that I had an active cynicism and/or clever intellectualism constantly scrutinizing things or a distantcool remove just cooly observing, and probably 10 days to start loving it, and my partner even wondered what was happening, they liked experiencing the outcomes of that effort too, just suffusive, dedicated friendliness (which can be very placid and plain welcome intention, not an in-your-face-hey-buddy-I'm-being-friendly-here) and it showed me what a sincere effort can do. Best wishes and thank you. It will be interesting to read about your test in a couple weeks.
Viran Shaminda Kariyawasam, modified 9 Years ago at 8/21/14 5:33 AM
Created 9 Years ago at 8/21/14 5:33 AM

RE: What is the most efficient way of practicing metta?

Posts: 9 Join Date: 8/20/14 Recent Posts
Dear friends,

as per NOB;E EIGHTFOLD PATH, we need to practice generosity first. in another way RENUNCIATION. (NEKKAMMA). when we have Nekkamma thoughts, it leads to loving kindness. METTA & KARUNA. Metta is not about preaching or chanting... its a practical thing.  when you practice renunciation, when you work hard to reduce craving, greediness, anger, you will have the foundation for a pure mind. this is how you should practice.

www.shakyamunidhamma.jimdo.com
Eva Nie, modified 9 Years ago at 8/21/14 9:34 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 8/21/14 9:34 PM

RE: What is the most efficient way of practicing metta?

Posts: 831 Join Date: 3/23/14 Recent Posts
Remember you are in a process of evolution.  What you are like right now is not what you were a year ago and it won't be what you are like a year from now.  There will be phases you will go through.  Detachment is one of those phases but it doesn't mean you will be stuck in that phase forever.  I think over time you will notice the pendulum tends to swing this way and that, sometimes some aspects and emotions will be stronger and others very weak, and then something shifts and other emotions are strong.   Negatively comparing yourself to the highest gurus around can be an issue if you are doing it in a way that feeds hatred and dissatisfaction towards yourself very strongly.  Ironically, self hatred seems very effective at blocking love towards others.  Develop a better relationship with yourself and I think you will find the same will develop with your feelings towards others.  Care towards others is a great goal but just watch out you are not using that as another way to be self critical towards self.  I am all for self evaluation of weaknesses but I also think it's important to learn how to do that without bashing yourself at the same time, ESPECIALLY if you already have strong tendencies in the direction of self hatred.  In the end you will HAVE TO deal with the self hatred at the core of self before you can fully develop relationships with those outside self.  The good news is when you deal with the issues at the core of self, the rest of the stuff tends to automatically get a lot better too. 
thumbnail
bernd the broter, modified 9 Years ago at 9/18/14 12:04 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 9/18/14 12:04 PM

RE: What is the most efficient way of practicing metta?

Posts: 376 Join Date: 6/13/12 Recent Posts
Hey Ivan,

how is it going?
thumbnail
Shaun Ivan Muzic, modified 9 Years ago at 9/18/14 12:23 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 9/18/14 12:23 PM

RE: What is the most efficient way of practicing metta?

Posts: 22 Join Date: 6/9/14 Recent Posts
When I got the notification, I was tempted to reply with something witty or pithy emoticon But I'll just stick to answering the question emoticon
Hakuna matata, my friend. No troubles in sight emoticon
You?
thumbnail
bernd the broter, modified 9 Years ago at 9/19/14 3:18 AM
Created 9 Years ago at 9/19/14 3:18 AM

RE: What is the most efficient way of practicing metta?

Posts: 376 Join Date: 6/13/12 Recent Posts
I'm good. I just finished a short self-retreat of Metta and came back here to log the differences. Then I wondered how others were doing with their Metta practice, so I thought I'd just ask (:
In my experience, 3 months is enough time to make some really significant progress, so it's your turn reporting now emoticon
thumbnail
Karalee Peltomaa, modified 9 Years ago at 10/13/14 6:26 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 10/13/14 6:26 PM

RE: What is the most efficient way of practicing metta?

Posts: 401 Join Date: 6/19/14 Recent Posts
katy steger:
Posty scripty: In my opinion, Ivan raises a good point which is often antipated in meditational practice; along side the risks of developing arrogance and strong self-reference, and/or exagerrated dissociation, one can develop a depression, like depressed power in will, "will power", the will to act/move/ do/plan/be anything other than be.

So if a person has a lot of the habit of negative (self-)thinking when they also realise the unreliable happiness in anything ("dukkha") these two ways of perception can compound and make one perceive very badly, very sadly, very madly. So certain meditation is not for everyone all the time-- and buddhist meditation is sometimes held to its "emptiness" aspect which feels like "nothingness" to the depressed mind. So this is one reason there are advisories/cautions all over the mediation retreat liability forms.

But this is true of any deeply practiced hobby. Look at depression in any mastery/master and one will see the wrenching discovery "Is this a worthwile activity? Am I worthwhile? What is worthwhile? What if everything is worth nothing?" This is nothinginess realization, not emptiness realization, but these realizations sit super-close to each other in the transitioning actual brain, I think.

So one way metta helps is it's an activity, an active training for the brain that's just had its pleasure source removed or undermined. In one way, it's similar to giving a person "the patch" when they quit smoking, except that is a passive relief.  Metta is an active relief. So it is more like telling a person after bariatric surgery: now let's exercise. Let's show the brain that there are many ways to pleasure and effort is one of the best. That effort is just one part of metta. Metta comes from the word "Mitto" which means "friend" in Pali... so "friendliness" is the practice effort of metta.

This metta, friendliness saturating perception or just having the ability to occasionally draw from it, can be useful to self and others as one is embarking on more "What is life? What am I? What is perception? What is worth? What is this? Where has pleasure gone? When pleasure goes, does it leave behind pain of no-pleasure...What is life? What am I? What are you? Is this worthwhile?" investigations. Because sometimes its very, very hard discovering the unreliablity of pleasure in many of one's actions and even one's worldview. A hard crumbing can happen before the curiosity and living re-start-- sort of where the (re)new(ed) practice starts after the floor gets torn up. It can be very hard.

Hi Ivan-- this is just a context around what you've written in case others are reading and dealing with some heavy side-effects to having perception changes. I'm not sure it would relate to you at all.

This topic is wonderful, too, that you've raised. It has application all the time. I've noticed that before presenting at Buddhist Geeks some presenters have "gotten in shape" (I would, too). What is motivating these meditation leaders to shape up before a conference in which they present? The issue of variable motivation/will, pleasure, and practice-- clearly arises even in these initial teachers of many years. Who is not telegraphing the continuity of own-practice by way of clear signs of cycling in indulgence and restraint? So motivation/will and pleasure are trainings which clear challenge newbies and "teachers of X-years". Great topic.

So motivation and metta are obviously related and not related. Metta will help a mind that's gotten pleasure from safe-self-sex learn another source of skilfullful pleasure: well wishing and friendliness towards others (which will help the mind feel this way to own-self... where as others-hatred/distain trains the mind in hatred and will train the mind to mock/hate own-self).

And motivation/ will-in-being doing... this is rich emoticon

Hello, Katy, just saw this post.   I think you hit the nail on the head.   Positive creative visualization until the mind feels satiated.

Breadcrumb