Hello folks,

I'm curious to hear from folks on the topic of practice after stream entry. Specifically, what is the role of effort in moving forward? 

Before stream entry effort was the name of the game for me; I noted my ass off in the way Daniel Ingram prescribed in order to pop it. That was nearly three years ago.

Since then practice has been a lot about just sitting and being with experience, noticing tension, letting it go, etc. However, now I'm living in a quasi-monastic setting and feeling the desire to push my practice forward. What would people recommend?

I also don't know where I'm at on the maps. Since stream entry I had a pretty significant fruition event during a six week retreat that seemed to shift my experience significantly; but I don't know how to locate myself on a map in these middle stages. Is it worthwhile to do?

Thanks for your time.

Exertion still occurs but you're in the stream, so flow with it.  It sounds like you have the right approach, so do what feels skillful.  If you feel like things need to be ratcheted up, then exert yourself more.  If you feel like it's time to let things settle and integrate for a while, then do that.   

It could also be a very good time for some focused shamata practice. 

Knowing where you are on the maps, at this point, is not crucial.  The maps are useful as inspiration, and navigating challenges earlier on in one's practice before one has the experience of just how weird things can get with intensive insight practice.  But at this point, what does worrying about your locale on the maps do for you?  Is it going to change the way you practice?  I doubt it... and if it did you might want to question yourself as to why that is.  

1. Cool! I have actually just started doing concentration in earnest again, working with a kasina (a practice I haven't done since SE). It's felt good to be working on a skill that develops directly over time, and it seems to be enhancing my insight practice.

2. I know it isn't critical, but I was curious if it might give additional context for what there is left to be done and how to move forward. I guess it wouldn't really change the way I practice...

Hi Daniel,

        In my experience there is the effort of showing up, physically bringing onself to the cushion (or whatever) to practice, and the effort of imposing one's perceived will onto the practice. Intentionality is powerful, but I have often found when I am self-efforting the practice, I get derailed.
        To answer your intial question I have vacillated much with practices since stream entry and post 4th path. I had neglected shamatha for years and for whatever reason am in a very shamatha/mahayana practices phase, practicing for six hours or so a day for several months, while working full time and trying to balance a relationship and graduate school. It's been interesting. I also went through a phase for two years following a signfigant shift post what I'd previously thought of as 4th path where any sense of trying to direction attention felt very painful and my practice had only to do with recognizing undirected attention. I think there are times when different approaches are called for and this is just part of the changing seasons of meditation.
        What was your shift like after stream entry? I've found a couple practices to be particulalry fruitful following stream entry, they may be useful for you as well.

Bill
        

[quote=William Golden Finch

]        What was your shift like after stream entry? I've found a couple practices to be particulalry fruitful following stream entry, they may be useful for you as well.

Bill
        
Do you mean the one I was referring to on the six week IMS retreat? Or stream entry itself?

Stream Entry was pretty standard, at least based on what I've read. Loss of belief in the seperate self, a huge reduction in struggle / suffering, uptake in concentration and access to the jhanas.

The more recent shift felt like a bunch of mind noise I didn't even know was going on just evaporated. My practice and life had more silence and ease than before.

I'm really feeling developing the concentration piece of my practice now and I'm excited to see where it goes. I spent so much time just noting that I never took the time to develop my concentration skillz. At least it will give 'me' something to do...

Hi Daniel, here's my two cents...

Second path is pretty much a repeat of first path. So basic breath awareness or noting is fine, but be prepared for the maps/stages to be harder to figure out.

After stream entry, there is the "review" period where there is a lot of cycling from A&P to fruition  ---- for some people. For me review didn't have that clear cycling which ends in fruition, but for some people this is pronounced.

At some point, you will feel like a beginner again and will feel like you basically have to start all over again with basic breath awareness and noting. The wierd thing is that you will also be becoming familiar with the jhanas, which can really cover up the classic, telltale signs of the nanas. So many folks basically describe second path as very confusing. Very very very confusing.

About all you can do is keep practicing/noting, while jhanas take you into wierd experiences. People that can access jhanas more clearly can start exploring that domain in a systematic way. For me, it was basically just confusing.

If you have a major fruition and it kinda feels like you are done with that stuff, or some other kind of feeling of completion, it could be you hit second path. This can happen very quickly for some lucky people, like a couple of months. A year or two is probably typical. 

Third path will feel kinda similar to second, but you'll have less interest and mapping and will even feel disenchanted with the maps. You might feel like you are looking for something else entirely, but don't know what. Your practice might feel like it is doing itself and you are making progress, but you really don't need to control it. What happens kinda doesn't matter.  

Does any of that line up with your experience?

(My best guess is maybe post-second path... but it all depends on how "significant" that recent fruition was.)