finding noting too weird

thumbnail
Sadalsuud Beta Aquarii, modified 7 Years ago at 8/30/14 5:51 PM
Created 7 Years ago at 8/30/14 5:51 PM

finding noting too weird

Posts: 118 Join Date: 7/21/13 Recent Posts
Hey. I learned noting last summer from this forum, and am very grateful, I feel it was instrumental in helping me have some insights.

Now my practice while sitting and in day-to-day life is just trying to relax and open into the sense fields continuously, and keep the attention 'spacious', relaxing the attention outwards when it starts to contract or coalesce around any objects. I relate this sort of contraction to the sense of a me-ness forming.

The other I was doing noting in pairs with someone and it just feels really icky. Feels like I am just trying to force the attention to "land" on something. Anyone else find this?

Just realising as I write, basically it feels very unnatural to try do anything with the attention other than relax it into everything.... 
is this a phase?
Gerry V, modified 7 Years ago at 8/30/14 6:38 PM
Created 7 Years ago at 8/30/14 6:38 PM

RE: finding noting too weird

Posts: 131 Join Date: 3/19/14 Recent Posts
I feel the exact same way. Noting feels aversive, even subtly stressful when I do it. I notice what's going on when I meditate, but for me, noting seems like doing too much. Bare awareness and just noticing what my mind tends to cling to is enough for me.

I can also more reliably get to Equanimity when I just notice what's going on. I can see where my attention gets stuck at and noting tends to stick it even more for me. Just a plain noticing that things arise and vanish on their own, as well as reminding myself to be neutral towards everything helps me to get to Equanimity fairly reliably. Also opening the awareness to a more broader perspective when my attention gets stuck on a nasty feeling or a pleasant thought helps out.

I'm curious as to if others feel the same way. I actually thought I was the only one to feel like this. My gut's telling me that it's stage specific, since I'm dark nighting and getting to Equanimity fairly regularly, but I have no solid frame of reference to confirm that.
thumbnail
Eric M W, modified 7 Years ago at 8/30/14 8:13 PM
Created 7 Years ago at 8/30/14 8:13 PM

RE: finding noting too weird

Posts: 288 Join Date: 3/19/14 Recent Posts
Noting can definitely feel unnatural, it can take a little while to get used to it. There are a few things that you may try:

- Mentally whisper the notes, gently and quietly. You may also try forgoing verbal noting altogether and just saying a little mental "hm" with each sensation.

- If you are having trouble with aim, or your attention is not sync'ed up with sensations, try cultivating a concentrative jhana state first. "Right aim" is important because it counteracts sloth and torpor. Place your hand on your abdomen and breathe normally. Keep your attention at a slight distance and watch the rising/falling as a single coherent entity. It is helpful to be happy, try smiling or recalling happy memories before you get down to the business of cultivating jhana. 

- If you can be aware of each little flicker of sensation without noting, that is enough, just be careful of the ever-wandering monkey mind.

This could definitely be a phase of practice, has noting ever been any different for you or has it always felt unnatural?
thumbnail
Richard Zen, modified 7 Years ago at 8/30/14 9:59 PM
Created 7 Years ago at 8/30/14 9:59 PM

RE: finding noting too weird

Posts: 1656 Join Date: 5/18/10 Recent Posts
thumbnail
(D Z) Dhru Val, modified 7 Years ago at 8/30/14 11:20 PM
Created 7 Years ago at 8/30/14 11:18 PM

RE: finding noting too weird

Posts: 346 Join Date: 9/18/11 Recent Posts
Sadalsuud Beta Aquarii:
Now my practice while sitting and in day-to-day life is just trying to relax and open into the sense fields continuously, and keep the attention 'spacious', relaxing the attention outwards when it starts to contract or coalesce around any objects. I relate this sort of contraction to the sense of a me-ness forming.

The other I was doing noting in pairs with someone and it just feels really icky. Feels like I am just trying to force the attention to "land" on something. Anyone else find this?

Just realising as I write, basically it feels very unnatural to try do anything with the attention other than relax it into everything.... 
is this a phase?


Noting has its limitations. Basically it good for disrupting a certain sort of habitual afflictive energetic pattern. 

But it is still an artifically fabricated mental patter, and after some point it is limiting. 

Check this out...


http://thehamiltonproject.blogspot.ca/2011/10/yogi-experiment-riding-wave.html

There is no need to fabricate 'paying attention'. It's already occurring at the senses. Recognize this fact and the salty water ceases pounding 'you' in the ear, as 'you' don't exist at the point of unsegregated, unobjectified sense contact. Drop all 'focus' and simply recognize what is happening without the need to focus on one part of the field of experience over another. Let the entire field of experience show itself without the need to selectively focus on fabricated 'parts' of it. Stop cutting up the entire field of experience!
thumbnail
finding-oneself *, modified 7 Years ago at 8/30/14 11:24 PM
Created 7 Years ago at 8/30/14 11:24 PM

RE: finding noting too weird

Posts: 252 Join Date: 1/7/14 Recent Posts
I've mostly meditated without noting and when I do it its less than once a second so I don't get tight. I got across the A&P with very little meditation and by the time I found MCTB I practiced only concentration. When I finally got down to doing vipassana more I found noting to be stress-inducing. I do better with bare awareness but I find gentle, ocassional noting to be helpful.

I felt the need to gradually introduce it into meditation because I felt I missed the oportunity to learn it in the insight stages 1-4. I thought I had to learn noting because its mentioned a lot and is said to help get people to stream entry but you definitely don't have to.

In EQ I will make an ocassional note or conjure up a thought or question to see what happens and play with it in relation to a self. It just doesn't feel like noting at that point though, even if on the surface its the same thing.

In the DN I start off my meditation with noting so I can get my attention going but then switch to bare awareness. It doesn't feel right to do it the whole session.
Goran, modified 7 Years ago at 8/31/14 5:42 AM
Created 7 Years ago at 8/31/14 5:41 AM

RE: finding noting too weird

Post: 1 Join Date: 6/23/12 Recent Posts
Richard Zen:

Thank you for this wonderful article!

Breadcrumb