I am studying the insight nana's through practising vipassana meditation and reading MCTB's progress of insight.
A few month's ago I thought I was cycling through re-ob and early EQ in daily life but now I think it was 3C's and A&P.
I have been on retreat a few times but at that time I didn't know the maps, that's why I am now relating my meditation experiences with the maps. Although I find it a bit hard in daily life, because the experiences tend to be less intense and are of a longer duration, offcourse this depends on the effort that is made to be mindfull. I would have this stiffness in my neck, upper back and shoulders, and because I was so equanimous towards it, I thought it was early EQ. When reading MCTB's progress of insight again, and especially reading the information about 3C's and early A&P again, I realised that I was going back and forward between these two. Because I am in my last year of university and have to write a couple essays I think it is best to stay between these two and not cross the A&P. So the last couple of weeks it is like this: my neck, upper back and shoulders are stiff, then I am as mindfull as possible during the day and meditate one hour a day. Then I reach early A&P, the breath first goes fast and then it gets slower and slower, and then fast again and then slower, this cycle is a sign of early A&P. Because I don't want to cross A&P, I intensionally don't use much effort to be mindfull and then the next day or so, there is the stiffness in the neck, upper back and shoulders again. I want to cross the A&P and use the maps to navigate through the DN and investigate and learn from it all, I just think it is not smart to do that at this time. After I graduate I can go on retreat again and then investigate and learn from the insight nana's with the MCTB's maps with me.

Does anybody else consciously stays before the crossing of the A&P? And did anybody else went on retreat with MCTB's maps in mind?

Yup, the breathing pattern is definite A&P.

I suggest you be careful. The A&P Event can come and zap you without warning, then you're in the Dark Night whether you like it or not. If you really don't want to deal with shittiness of the higher insight stages, the wisest course of action is to stop vipassana altogether and indulge in concentration states. If your mindfulness is high enough to hit early A&P, second jhana should be relatively easy for you to access, once you get the hang of ingoring the 3C's.

When I first read MCTB, the descriptions of the Dark Night sounded frightening, so I decided that insight practice wasn't for me at that time in my life. But, a little noting practice couldn't hurt, right? Later that night, I had a hard time falling asleep, and then I had a vivid dream filled with bright lights and mythical content. Reality exploded. Since I wasn't very familiar with the maps, I had no idea that anything important had happened. I hit the Dark Night and got my ass handed to me, and I've been dealing with the complex consequences for two years now. Trying to raise a family, work, and balance meditation is not easy.

Learn from my mistake.

Thanks Eric for your answer and advice.

You said that after you crossed the A&P, you have been dealing with the DN for two years now.
Now I think about it, I have crossed the A&P on at least two retreats and after both of the two I struggled with the DN.
After my first retreat I thought that meditation only made me more anxious and fearfull (now I understand this is DN, before your post I thought that I was simply just a beginner meditator who didn't have much wisdom at that time).
After my second retreat I remembered having to struggle for one year, during that year I meditated a lot, especially off the cushion.
During the third retreat I struggled with the DN (didn't know the maps yet), the first day I couldn't see clearly anymore but just went on(Dissolution). I quited at the fourth day (thinking I was meditating wrong, not knowing I was actually making progress). But after this retreat I didn't remember struggeling with the DN. So now I am thinking, how come I didn't experience DN symptoms after the third retreat?

PS: about a week ago I was walking in the sun with my jacket on and I experienced a very intense itch at several parts of my body. This remained for five minutes and I just stood still and observed it. I quess this wasn't an A&P because I still have stifness in my neck, upper back and shoulders as I am writing this.

Hi Eric,

I think I had some A&P experiences years and years back (mid 1990s) way before I ever did any meditation retreats (that was the speculation of a few here when i mentioned it like 4 or 5 years ago). But that was all v different phenomena to what I've had in more recent times:

I described in another thread some experiences of being on retreat such as seeing bright lights and really really wild and "violent" shaking, body contortions, twisting and general flailing about of the arms and head. Daniel pointed out A & P symptoms. What I neglected to mention was also exactly as described as in the breath speeding up rapidly or slowing down markedly and sometimes stopping altogether for quite a while (easily a minute plus sometimes). So, that was 1 & 1/2 years back on retreat and also on another retreat more recently. Plus these symptoms still occur daily off retreat.

I've also experienced a lot of DN crap for years probably. This is unanswerable I guess because it's so individual and depends on what anyone does or doesn't do on or off retreat of course... Just makes me think thought as to how long can these A & P experiences can continue for?

On retreat it has gotten so hectic at times that a 1 hour sitting is a real work out! I'm a lot better at "controlling" it than I used to be but it's still very much an effort.

Piers

Hi  John,

I started a lot of yoga in an intense training of six months when these issues arose (and itchiness and head pressures.. iron skull/octopus-on-head). I used and use Ray Long, MD,'s notes, which he freely gives online at BandhaYoga (I'm not any affiliate). Best wishes : )

Thank you all for your answers!

I don't have much experience with concentration practise although I did some kasina and breath counting practises but these were always for a short period of time. I read this article from Leigh Brasington: http://www.leighb.com/jhana3.htm
I tried it with breath counting and the breath becomes shallow very quickly but them I just can't find a pleasant sensation because I feel so much sensations in the body. Then I just choose one but I also feel the other sensations (to much mindfulness?).

I am also wandering because the shallow breath is also a sign of early A&P and it is said that then the 2nd vipassana jhana is present. So how can Leigh Brasington say that this is a sign of acces concentration?

An other question: I never had much spectaculair/intense things happen in meditation (not like some of you). No lights or very short, no bliss just rapture. Will practising concentration make it more likely that I will experience more intense things when I shift to insight meditation? And when I don't want this, I can always stop practising for a few days so that the concentration can lower.

Thanks for the help, I am more experienced with insight meditation, but willing to take your advice (Eric M W) to try concentration practise.

Just stay with the object in a gentle and happy way. Be absolutely unwavering, but not a strained way. Incline the mind towards bliss and rapture. Pleasant sensations will arise without much trouble.

The vipassana jhanas and concentration jhanas share much in common. They are basically two sides of the same coin and some traditions don't separate them at all. Just be with what is happening and roll with it.

Yeah, concentration can make things more vivid, but many of us have had very vivid and intense experiences even with poor concentration. I had an intense A&P despite being a firm believer that spiritual things just didn't happen to me. 

A word of caution: once the A&P takes hold, meditation takes on a life of its own. You can't stop

Thanks for the caution. That is definitely what I have experienced.

When the breath becomes shallow then there is the feeling that I don't have enough oxygen. If I try to purposely switch my attention to a pleasant sensation I can not stay there because the unpleasant sensation of not getting enough oxygen or the need to breath is more dominant. Any advice?

It's okay to adjust the breath in order to make your sit more comfortable. But some nanas, especially #2 Cause and Effect, can make the breath feel mechanical and difficult to work with. I'd suggest attempting to calm and lengthen the breath. If that doesn't work, try taking on a different object. I like to use my whole body in sitting posture as a single object if the breath gets out of hand.

I seem to shift fast to #3 nana Three Characteristics. There is stifness in the back and neck. How can I do concentration practise without doing insight and moving through the nanas?

Try using a visual object like a candle flame or a colored disk. The breath can be hard for pure concentration because it shifts and moves, solid objects are easier to solidify.