Vipasanna experiences with toddlers - Discussion
Vipasanna experiences with toddlers
Matt, modified 10 Years ago at 10/14/14 5:43 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 10/14/14 5:38 PM
Vipasanna experiences with toddlers
Posts: 316 Join Date: 1/14/14 Recent Posts
I have a 3.0 year old child (no siblings yet) and I'm interested in bring the dharma/vipasanna into the way I interact with him.
I am fully involved in my own Vipasanna meditation practice so that I am more present and responsive in a helpful, authentic, playful, perceptive and expressive way when with him.
This post is about specific situations that always come up with kids, and how to shape his environment and respond and model in ways that experientially informs the little guys understand the truth of the world he lives in.
For example, a friend said to me: "having a sibling is worth a million meditation classes". His point of course is that having a little sib enhances entropy in a way that is very 'impermanence' informing. Also, he would see plenty of examples of compassion for suffering, cause those new babies have a lot to be uncomfortable about.
Another much simpler example is: we listen to a music CD in the car and there are some tracks that toddler does not like. He says "I don't like that song, would you change it?" (He's a very good talker for his age). I used to figure, just change it (or delete it from the song list). Now I do something different, I say "It will be over in just a minute, I'll turn it down just a bit", then I turn it down a noticeable but not muting amount. I think this is a way of having the experience of choosing the non-suffering option of hearing a song he does not like.
Another: it occurred to me that plastic toys (they break) is a frequent lesson impermanence; I say something like "you never know how long something is going to last".
No-self:
This is a hard one for me to understand myself, let alone help a child understand. But I do have one idea: that is to look for situations where a tangible thing that is desirable and needs cultivation is utterly dependent on a shared effort. For example, keeping a ball in the air in beach ball. For myself, I find that I do better at keeping the ball in the air by recognizing that no one person has ownership of the results, but every-bodies participation is required. This is hard with the 3 year old because beach ball is really about chasing the ball as it rolls away.
I'm not looking for scriptures here, I'm looking for other parents or relatives of kids who have found ways to interact with a child in a way that fosters natural awareness of impermanence, imbalance, non-self.
Matt
I am fully involved in my own Vipasanna meditation practice so that I am more present and responsive in a helpful, authentic, playful, perceptive and expressive way when with him.
This post is about specific situations that always come up with kids, and how to shape his environment and respond and model in ways that experientially informs the little guys understand the truth of the world he lives in.
For example, a friend said to me: "having a sibling is worth a million meditation classes". His point of course is that having a little sib enhances entropy in a way that is very 'impermanence' informing. Also, he would see plenty of examples of compassion for suffering, cause those new babies have a lot to be uncomfortable about.
Another much simpler example is: we listen to a music CD in the car and there are some tracks that toddler does not like. He says "I don't like that song, would you change it?" (He's a very good talker for his age). I used to figure, just change it (or delete it from the song list). Now I do something different, I say "It will be over in just a minute, I'll turn it down just a bit", then I turn it down a noticeable but not muting amount. I think this is a way of having the experience of choosing the non-suffering option of hearing a song he does not like.
Another: it occurred to me that plastic toys (they break) is a frequent lesson impermanence; I say something like "you never know how long something is going to last".
No-self:
This is a hard one for me to understand myself, let alone help a child understand. But I do have one idea: that is to look for situations where a tangible thing that is desirable and needs cultivation is utterly dependent on a shared effort. For example, keeping a ball in the air in beach ball. For myself, I find that I do better at keeping the ball in the air by recognizing that no one person has ownership of the results, but every-bodies participation is required. This is hard with the 3 year old because beach ball is really about chasing the ball as it rolls away.
I'm not looking for scriptures here, I'm looking for other parents or relatives of kids who have found ways to interact with a child in a way that fosters natural awareness of impermanence, imbalance, non-self.
Matt
Eric M W, modified 10 Years ago at 10/14/14 6:42 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 10/14/14 6:42 PM
RE: Vipasanna experiences with toddlers
Posts: 288 Join Date: 3/19/14 Recent Posts
Father of three checking in here. I have a 4 year old son with autism, a two year old daughter, and a newborn.
Having kids is like super-morality training. It is an experience of surrender and love that is beyond anything I have ever encountered before in this life. Training in morality is obviously very beneficial, as it provides a basis for powerful sitting practice. Metta is ridiculously easy with kids.
As for the insight aspect of things...
Impermanence-- this one takes time, but it is easy when you tune into it. Your children get older every day. They outgrow diaper sizes, clothes, they learn to speak, they develop new habits as they grow up. It feels like just yesterday I was watching my son being born, and now he is four. The older they get, the faster they grow, and experiences transfigurate into memories faster than you can comprehend, becoming only mental images and feelings of the past.
Suffering-- this one is fairly easy as well. Babies cry a lot. Toddlers fall and throw tantrums. The cry of my children prompts an immediate quivering of the heart-- profound compassion.
No-self-- the trickiest, as it tends to be. The only experience I can offer here is looking into the eyes of a child and seeing sentience staring back at you.
Having kids is like super-morality training. It is an experience of surrender and love that is beyond anything I have ever encountered before in this life. Training in morality is obviously very beneficial, as it provides a basis for powerful sitting practice. Metta is ridiculously easy with kids.
As for the insight aspect of things...
Impermanence-- this one takes time, but it is easy when you tune into it. Your children get older every day. They outgrow diaper sizes, clothes, they learn to speak, they develop new habits as they grow up. It feels like just yesterday I was watching my son being born, and now he is four. The older they get, the faster they grow, and experiences transfigurate into memories faster than you can comprehend, becoming only mental images and feelings of the past.
Suffering-- this one is fairly easy as well. Babies cry a lot. Toddlers fall and throw tantrums. The cry of my children prompts an immediate quivering of the heart-- profound compassion.
No-self-- the trickiest, as it tends to be. The only experience I can offer here is looking into the eyes of a child and seeing sentience staring back at you.
Jake , modified 10 Years ago at 10/15/14 7:51 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 10/15/14 7:51 AM
RE: Vipasanna experiences with toddlers
Posts: 695 Join Date: 5/22/10 Recent Posts
This is a cool topic. My son is turning 6 in December.
I think there is a really interesting balance between simply creating a safe place for him to learn to regulate himself and learn to implement the values of our family and culture, and planting little dharma seeds. In some cases these things really dovetail: like impermanence and the equation clinging=suffering are pretty easy for a kid to grasp, in practice, and appreciate the significance of in terms of being happy and kind. Your example with the plastic toy and song is great and i think just being able to sow a seed with a little phrase like that is an excellent way to do it.
No-self IS more difficult in this context as at this stage of development I think it's really important for kids to develop a stable sense of being someone. So how to let that happen in a more porous, flexible way is an interesting question.
That said, I also think that individuals are born geared to having very different styles of identification. For instance, I've always felt my identity as more of a complex of partially overlapping situational identities and I've always had a sense of how my actual being exceeds my identities. Some folks have a much more solid stable identity from the get go, and my son appears more like this. He's very hard-headed whereas I am more dreamy. He's very physically handy and can allready provide actual help with little tasks around the house and I'm pretty bad at handy household things by nature. He's attracted to sports and I never was. All these differences in ways of being mean that I simply don't know what's the 'best' way to raise him to be a healthy, reasonably happy adult much less be his dharma teacher (which is a role I don't take with anyone else, either, anyway!). So for me there are obviously plenty of lessons as well in terms of adjusting expectations and providing a space for him to develop in his own way rather than trying to direct his development.
So ultimately I think I look at it more in terms of giving him a sort of baseline of internal skills around being aware of his own states, being responsible for how he acts those states out, but basically being OK with whatever feelings are coming up and learning that feelings, impulses, etc. don't have to automatically be translated into action. I think this plants seeds of seeing that "I am not (limited to...) whatever is coming up at the moment". There is an interesting parallel between the psychoanalytic concept of 'ego strength' and the Buddhist concept of 'mindfulness' in that ego strength simply means the ability to non-reactively be aware of one's own feelings, thoughts etc in real time without defensiveness.
So I think rather than trying to teach him insight practice or principles for me it's simply about raising (reasonably) healthy happy kids with good ego strength. This will naturally lay foundations that will be optimal for them if they later choose to pursue insight (such as a stable mind with low reactivity, good ability for delayed gratification, self-awareness without excessive self-judgement, a sense of the difference between co-dependance, a fantasy of hyperindendence, and the actuality of interdependence, etc.).
I think there is a really interesting balance between simply creating a safe place for him to learn to regulate himself and learn to implement the values of our family and culture, and planting little dharma seeds. In some cases these things really dovetail: like impermanence and the equation clinging=suffering are pretty easy for a kid to grasp, in practice, and appreciate the significance of in terms of being happy and kind. Your example with the plastic toy and song is great and i think just being able to sow a seed with a little phrase like that is an excellent way to do it.
No-self IS more difficult in this context as at this stage of development I think it's really important for kids to develop a stable sense of being someone. So how to let that happen in a more porous, flexible way is an interesting question.
That said, I also think that individuals are born geared to having very different styles of identification. For instance, I've always felt my identity as more of a complex of partially overlapping situational identities and I've always had a sense of how my actual being exceeds my identities. Some folks have a much more solid stable identity from the get go, and my son appears more like this. He's very hard-headed whereas I am more dreamy. He's very physically handy and can allready provide actual help with little tasks around the house and I'm pretty bad at handy household things by nature. He's attracted to sports and I never was. All these differences in ways of being mean that I simply don't know what's the 'best' way to raise him to be a healthy, reasonably happy adult much less be his dharma teacher (which is a role I don't take with anyone else, either, anyway!). So for me there are obviously plenty of lessons as well in terms of adjusting expectations and providing a space for him to develop in his own way rather than trying to direct his development.
So ultimately I think I look at it more in terms of giving him a sort of baseline of internal skills around being aware of his own states, being responsible for how he acts those states out, but basically being OK with whatever feelings are coming up and learning that feelings, impulses, etc. don't have to automatically be translated into action. I think this plants seeds of seeing that "I am not (limited to...) whatever is coming up at the moment". There is an interesting parallel between the psychoanalytic concept of 'ego strength' and the Buddhist concept of 'mindfulness' in that ego strength simply means the ability to non-reactively be aware of one's own feelings, thoughts etc in real time without defensiveness.
So I think rather than trying to teach him insight practice or principles for me it's simply about raising (reasonably) healthy happy kids with good ego strength. This will naturally lay foundations that will be optimal for them if they later choose to pursue insight (such as a stable mind with low reactivity, good ability for delayed gratification, self-awareness without excessive self-judgement, a sense of the difference between co-dependance, a fantasy of hyperindendence, and the actuality of interdependence, etc.).
Matt, modified 10 Years ago at 10/21/14 12:17 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 10/21/14 11:37 AM
RE: Vipasanna experiences with toddlers
Posts: 316 Join Date: 1/14/14 Recent Posts
Just to refine and be more clear about this thread: Kids (in my case my 3 year old son) have 'three marks of existence' experiences all the time because, of course, impermanence, suffering and no-self are ultimate realities of human existence.
He (the child) has no choice about hitting 3 C experiences, but *I* do have a choice about how to participate in his experience in a skilful and helpful way, and since this is a Buddhist board, my interest is skilful application of Buddhist principles. In this sense, we all have no choice: we are all each others dharma teachers. Parents are a child's first dharma teacher, whether or not we feel comfortable with the job.
Of course the right answers depend on the individual, the particular situation, his experience, his age, his innate abilities, etc.
I feel like adopting an "I'll only teach by example" stance is a retreat away from my responsibilities, but that may just be wrong. Maybe Reality dishes out the lessons, and only the experiences that he manages by himself will have a lasting impression?
Thanks Jake for relating the 'identification' aspect of a child's developing psychology. That kind of stuff comes up a lot. He hears from the people around him, stuff about his eye lashes, his abilitiy to jump etc, and we choose the language we use. We can say:
I think a common view is that it's important for kids to feel good about themselves, and to prop them up by minimizing their focus on 'things they are bad at' and maximizing their focus on 'things they are good at'. Is this always a good idea? Is it good for me for the moment, is it good for him at the moment, is it good for him in the longer term?
Edit: to add that Dream Walker pointed out that my question relating to 'the Three Marks of Existance' relates more to the application of Buddhist philosoply, not the application of Vipasanna theory.
He (the child) has no choice about hitting 3 C experiences, but *I* do have a choice about how to participate in his experience in a skilful and helpful way, and since this is a Buddhist board, my interest is skilful application of Buddhist principles. In this sense, we all have no choice: we are all each others dharma teachers. Parents are a child's first dharma teacher, whether or not we feel comfortable with the job.
Of course the right answers depend on the individual, the particular situation, his experience, his age, his innate abilities, etc.
I feel like adopting an "I'll only teach by example" stance is a retreat away from my responsibilities, but that may just be wrong. Maybe Reality dishes out the lessons, and only the experiences that he manages by himself will have a lasting impression?
Thanks Jake for relating the 'identification' aspect of a child's developing psychology. That kind of stuff comes up a lot. He hears from the people around him, stuff about his eye lashes, his abilitiy to jump etc, and we choose the language we use. We can say:
- "You are such a good jumper" or
- "You have a great ability to jump" or
- "That was a really good jump"
I think a common view is that it's important for kids to feel good about themselves, and to prop them up by minimizing their focus on 'things they are bad at' and maximizing their focus on 'things they are good at'. Is this always a good idea? Is it good for me for the moment, is it good for him at the moment, is it good for him in the longer term?
Edit: to add that Dream Walker pointed out that my question relating to 'the Three Marks of Existance' relates more to the application of Buddhist philosoply, not the application of Vipasanna theory.
Jake , modified 10 Years ago at 10/22/14 1:02 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 10/22/14 1:02 PM
RE: Vipasanna experiences with toddlers
Posts: 695 Join Date: 5/22/10 Recent Posts
Those are great questions! I too wonder about all this. I like all the specific examples you are giving, they resonate with my approach. I Do think how we frame things (label things) is very important and is part of 'teaching by example" because in those moments when you say "That was a great jump!" rather than "You are a good jumper!" you are setting an example that humans are actually processes, life is process, we aren't nouns per se but rather patterns of qualities and capacities which are ever changing. I think that's great!
My comment about teaching dharma really reflects where I am at with that whole topic at the moment. I just recognize how little I know and how little I have transformed compared to the folks that really inspire me and that I aspire to become more like. I just don't feel qualified to do that!
That said, I feel really good about parenting and I feel good about sharing my interests with my son. He naturally picks up on my activities that he is interested in and as he gets older (almost 6!) he participates more directly. He likes to help out with chores around the house-- carry firewood, clean the floors. He does the dishes after dinner several nights a week. He loves to help! When I play music, where he used to just grab some toys and follow me out to the studio, he now is just as likely to want to hop on the drum machine or keyboard or his ukelele and jam with me. When I meditate he shows vague curiosity but doesn't ask me about it, so I don't usually say much about it. However if he does express interest I would probably suggest he try breath counting.
His Kindergarten teacher does tai chi with the kids which I think is pretty cool! He can be a bit scattered and hyper and my ex, my GF and i have all taken to cueing him to slow down and 'focus' when need be and he has internalized this and it is cool to see him get his gears spinning and suddenly have that "aha!" and put his hands gently to his temples and say "hold on, I am going to focus' and he takes a deep breathm, slows down, closes his eyes and smiles, and then returns to what he was doing with a calmer moer coherant energy.
There are so many different parenting styles, many of which seem very valid! I guess mine is pretty laid back in some ways in that I let him find his own interests, show him plenty of warmth, and try to create a safe space for him to have and express his thoughts and feelings and I try to balance that with clear and consistent boundaries, expectations etc. My GF, who is a social worker, jokes that I could teach the "Love & logic" class that she used when working with families with parenting issues because it's what I do naturally. But that is actually not exactly naturally, because it is certainly informed both by my understanding of developmental psychology and dharma. So, it is what it is I guess! Anyhow, I am really enjoying your examples, and they have gotten me thinking about being more mindful about how I frame my observations and responses, as I think your reflections about HOW to say things are very spot on and applicable in many domains of interaction, not just parenting.
My comment about teaching dharma really reflects where I am at with that whole topic at the moment. I just recognize how little I know and how little I have transformed compared to the folks that really inspire me and that I aspire to become more like. I just don't feel qualified to do that!
That said, I feel really good about parenting and I feel good about sharing my interests with my son. He naturally picks up on my activities that he is interested in and as he gets older (almost 6!) he participates more directly. He likes to help out with chores around the house-- carry firewood, clean the floors. He does the dishes after dinner several nights a week. He loves to help! When I play music, where he used to just grab some toys and follow me out to the studio, he now is just as likely to want to hop on the drum machine or keyboard or his ukelele and jam with me. When I meditate he shows vague curiosity but doesn't ask me about it, so I don't usually say much about it. However if he does express interest I would probably suggest he try breath counting.
His Kindergarten teacher does tai chi with the kids which I think is pretty cool! He can be a bit scattered and hyper and my ex, my GF and i have all taken to cueing him to slow down and 'focus' when need be and he has internalized this and it is cool to see him get his gears spinning and suddenly have that "aha!" and put his hands gently to his temples and say "hold on, I am going to focus' and he takes a deep breathm, slows down, closes his eyes and smiles, and then returns to what he was doing with a calmer moer coherant energy.
There are so many different parenting styles, many of which seem very valid! I guess mine is pretty laid back in some ways in that I let him find his own interests, show him plenty of warmth, and try to create a safe space for him to have and express his thoughts and feelings and I try to balance that with clear and consistent boundaries, expectations etc. My GF, who is a social worker, jokes that I could teach the "Love & logic" class that she used when working with families with parenting issues because it's what I do naturally. But that is actually not exactly naturally, because it is certainly informed both by my understanding of developmental psychology and dharma. So, it is what it is I guess! Anyhow, I am really enjoying your examples, and they have gotten me thinking about being more mindful about how I frame my observations and responses, as I think your reflections about HOW to say things are very spot on and applicable in many domains of interaction, not just parenting.
Matt, modified 10 Years ago at 11/2/14 12:56 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 11/2/14 12:54 PM
RE: Vipasanna experiences with toddlers
Posts: 316 Join Date: 1/14/14 Recent Postsmatthew sexton:
Thanks Jake for relating the 'identification' aspect of a child's developing psychology. That kind of stuff comes up a lot. He hears from the people around him, stuff about his eye lashes, his abilitiy to jump etc, and we choose the language we use. We can say:
- "You are such a good jumper" or
- "You have a great ability to jump" or
- "That was a really good jump"
A friend of mine added a 4'th possibility: "That was a 5 foot jump". Changing from 'really good' to '5 foot' removes the layer that identifies with values. This seems like a logical step along the path of leaving identification out of the way we talk about reality. I wonder about this though....
Matt, modified 9 Years ago at 1/26/15 12:02 AM
Created 9 Years ago at 1/26/15 12:02 AM
RE: Vipasanna experiences with toddlers
Posts: 316 Join Date: 1/14/14 Recent Posts
A game my 3 year old son got for xmas that I feel teaches him about impermanance:
http://www.amazon.com/PicassoTiles%C2%AE-Magnet-Building-Magnetic-Blocks/dp/B00AU56C5W/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1422251890&sr=8-2&keywords=magnetic+blocks
These 'blocks' are flat plastic modules that have magnetic strips on each edge. You can use them to build structures that look kind of like a house of cards, or other more diverse shapes. The edge of one module magnetically sticks to another module to form the structure. The thing is, the magnetic connection between blocks is weak, the structure you are building often falls apart in the middle of building it. I'd think that would drive my sone crazy, but he just shrugs and starts over again.
http://www.amazon.com/PicassoTiles%C2%AE-Magnet-Building-Magnetic-Blocks/dp/B00AU56C5W/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1422251890&sr=8-2&keywords=magnetic+blocks
These 'blocks' are flat plastic modules that have magnetic strips on each edge. You can use them to build structures that look kind of like a house of cards, or other more diverse shapes. The edge of one module magnetically sticks to another module to form the structure. The thing is, the magnetic connection between blocks is weak, the structure you are building often falls apart in the middle of building it. I'd think that would drive my sone crazy, but he just shrugs and starts over again.