B. Vimalaramsi's road to stream entry

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PP, modified 8 Years ago at 7/5/15 4:55 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 11/7/14 12:21 PM

B. Vimalaramsi's road to stream entry

Posts: 376 Join Date: 3/21/12 Recent Posts
About 2 years ago I tried B.Vimalaramsi's 6R method http://www.dhammasukha.org/the-6rs.html, the first Buddhist one, as it had many points of contact with a Taoist method I tried before. It had nice effects but then I hit a plateau, and couldn't find any further info in his books about what to do next (other than theorical reference to Dependent Origination). Then got hooked by cristal clear MCTB map of Insight, so I forgot about the 6R. 

Yesterday I read "Jhana is not absorbtion in an object" thread, where Pal offered the link  http://youtu.be/USJPI7MP3Tw to one of B.Vimalaramsi's talks. Finally I think I understood his map to (al least) Stream Entry:

1. Work the 6R both in sits and daily life in order to deal with the 2nd Characteristic (the 5 hindrances), and so let you able to walk through the Rupa Jhanas not only in height (from 1 to 4) about also in depth/quality. That depth would then expose the 5 hindrances but also many facets of the 3rd Characteristic as well. There's no mention at all (neither explicit nor implied) about the 1st Characteristic. 

2. That depth in Jhanas would then facilitate to walk through the Arupa Jhanas, from 5 to 8. Finally reach Neither Perception nor Non-Perception and get in an out of it in order to experience how Dependent Origination works, thus dealing with the 3rd Characteristic in first place and the 1st Characteristic as a carry-over. Eventually, DO and the 3C's coalesce, leading to Enlightenment.

Summing up, it's a Samatha/Vipassana road, heavier on the first one in the inital steps and on the second one later. Because of this and the 6R method, it seems to be implied to skip A&P and DÑ and aim to Equanimity from start. Then, play with "fake" fruitions in NPnorNP in order to expose the DO and so see clearly the 3C. 

Thoughts? 

PS: Daniel gave in MCTB1 a long description about the Three Doors, and he state that "the clearest and most illumination experiences of the Three Doors come from attaining Frution in the formless realms or in the realms of psychic powers". I hope he'd expand that theme in MCTB2.

EDIT June-2015: I write here in the OP as many would read it in the future, don't wan't to misguide those interested in Vimalaramsi's (BV) method. This week I bought a book from Doug Kraft, one of BV old students: Buddha's Map. There he says you actually need to reach Nirodha Samapatti in order to see Dependent Origination at display. In the near future, I'll write more about BV's method. It's deeper and wider than it's seen at a first glance.

EDIT July-2015: see post below.
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Not Tao, modified 9 Years ago at 11/7/14 1:28 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 11/7/14 1:28 PM

RE: B.Vimalaramsi's road to stream entry

Posts: 995 Join Date: 4/5/14 Recent Posts
I think this makes sense.  It seems like the dark night is caused when some kind of letting go first occurs, and the meditator isn't willing to apply it equally across everything.  The tension comes from seeing the peaceful result as the cause, and trying to attain the same thing through some kind of effort.  This happened to me somewhat.
Pål, modified 9 Years ago at 11/7/14 3:53 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 11/7/14 3:53 PM

RE: B. Vimalaramsi's road to stream entry

Posts: 778 Join Date: 9/30/14 Recent Posts
Skipping the A&P and DN seems to be in line with the suttas since those states/stages are never mentioned by the Buddha. Something that talks against visudhimagga-style and modern vipassana as being close to the original teachings. I love how he says the proper jhanas are "levels of understanding".
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b man, modified 8 Years ago at 6/21/15 7:38 AM
Created 8 Years ago at 6/21/15 7:38 AM

RE: B.Vimalaramsi's road to stream entry

Posts: 199 Join Date: 11/25/11 Recent Posts
Not Tao:
I think this makes sense.  It seems like the dark night is caused when some kind of letting go first occurs, and the meditator isn't willing to apply it equally across everything.  The tension comes from seeing the peaceful result as the cause, and trying to attain the same thing through some kind of effort.  This happened to me somewhat.

this is interesting. Do you have any more information on this way of looking at it? Can you elaborate on your experience of this NotTao, if you have time?
Christian Calamus, modified 8 Years ago at 6/21/15 1:49 PM
Created 8 Years ago at 6/21/15 1:48 PM

RE: B. Vimalaramsi's road to stream entry

Posts: 88 Join Date: 10/23/10 Recent Posts
"Finally reach Neither Perception nor Non-Perception and get in an out of it in order to experience how Dependent Origination works"

I've come across a similar instruction a couple of times which says to look at the workings of dependent origination right after fruition. But I've never managed to see anything very interesting with any clarity. I suppose I just don't have the necessary concentration. I'd find it very interesting if someone with experience in this area could describe what it is like to see "how dependent origination works" in these circumstances. What exactly is seen? Is there anything significant  beyond the sense of gradual rebooting of perception?
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Noah, modified 8 Years ago at 6/22/15 3:12 AM
Created 8 Years ago at 6/22/15 3:12 AM

RE: B. Vimalaramsi's road to stream entry

Posts: 1467 Join Date: 7/6/13 Recent Posts
I think this makes sense.  It seems like the dark night is caused when some kind of letting go first occurs, and the meditator isn't willing to apply it equally across everything.  The tension comes from seeing the peaceful result as the cause, and trying to attain the same thing through some kind of effort.  This happened to me somewhat.
Skipping the A&P and DN seems to be in line with the suttas since those states/stages are never mentioned by the Buddha. Something that talks against visudhimagga-style and modern vipassana as being close to the original teachings. I love how he says the proper jhanas are "levels of understanding".

I like the 20-stratum-of-mind and vipassana-jhanas models, as they suggest that when the mind is sufficiently stabilized via jhanic factors, it can skip past the unstable, wavelike strata of the psychic mineshaft that fall between 3rd and 4th jhanas.  These would be the dark night layers, which are heavily experienced by most meditators, unless one develops a strong enough platform of concentration.  It also makes sense (to me) that acceptance could help stabilize the mind in moving more quickly to the 4th jhana.  The model also explains that the 4th nana and the 2nd jhana are basically the same thing, but looked at through different lenses and from different angles and therefore influencing the meditator's experience in different ways.
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Timmy Davis, modified 8 Years ago at 6/30/15 3:47 AM
Created 8 Years ago at 6/30/15 3:47 AM

RE: B. Vimalaramsi's road to stream entry

Posts: 28 Join Date: 3/4/15 Recent Posts
Just posting to subscribe to follow this thread (no idea how else to subscribe, keep on discussing!)

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