Parallels to The Fourth Way

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Nik, modified 9 Years ago at 11/19/14 8:28 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 11/16/14 4:47 PM

Parallels to The Fourth Way

Posts: 53 Join Date: 8/12/14 Recent Posts
I came across this very in depth book about George Gurdjieff's 'Fourth Way' teachings. It's a huge huge book so I've only read bits of it, but a lot of the approaches to 'self'-development seem to be similar to Actualism--- primarily working with emotions and conditioning in order to reach 'objectivity'. Enjoy

http://www.gianfrancobertagni.it/materiali/gurdjieff/nicoll_commentari1.pdf
http://www.gianfrancobertagni.it/materiali/gurdjieff/nicoll_commentari2.pdf
http://www.gianfrancobertagni.it/materiali/gurdjieff/nicoll_commentari3.pdf
http://www.gianfrancobertagni.it/materiali/gurdjieff/nicoll_commentari4.pdf
http://www.gianfrancobertagni.it/materiali/gurdjieff/nicoll_commentari5.pdf
http://www.gianfrancobertagni.it/materiali/gurdjieff/nicoll_commentari6.pdf
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Nik, modified 9 Years ago at 11/16/14 5:18 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 11/16/14 5:18 PM

RE: Parallels to The Fourth Way

Posts: 53 Join Date: 8/12/14 Recent Posts
I really like this passage about anger and forgiveness on page 1240. It's really vibing with my observations lately that my emotions only disappear when I actually sift through the thoughts and see that they are based on some misinformed, superficial line of reasoning, rather than when I try to 'force'/desire away my emotions because they don't fit with how I want to see myself.

"Now how, when you begin to see your own mechanicalness in your behavior, can you blame others who were equally so? Were not those who you think caused your suffering mechanical people? Remember that in such a case you can only forgive, which in the Gospels means, dazzingly, "cancel" the debt. Yes, but this is possible according to your level of being. A low level of being forgives no one. It only sees its own merit. That surely is a key to how to reach a higher level of being. When, through self-observation and work on yourself, you see more and more clearly that you are as bad as anyone else, then you ascend the Ladder of Being which ends in Divine Being-- which forgives all-- a thing we cannot remotely understand as we are at present with our store of negative emotion..... But as Consciousness increases we include more and more as being in ourselves, with an increasing lack of conceit, until we cannot be insulted. Nor, then, do we judge. How can I, if I realize I am worse than you, judge you? At present, of course, we pretend we do not judge-- a quite different matter, a matter of being full of meritorious virtues and so of swelliing up the False Personality which imitates every virtue inartistically and so causes mcuh weariness and boredom to others, like a bad play."
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Not Tao, modified 9 Years ago at 11/16/14 5:24 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 11/16/14 5:19 PM

RE: Parallels to The Fourth Way

Posts: 995 Join Date: 4/5/14 Recent Posts
These links don't seem to be working for me. emoticon

EDIT: Never mind there it goes!  I think this thread would benefit from more quotes.  These are pretty long.

The one you posted above does seem to jive with my understanding of actualism. emoticon
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Nik, modified 9 Years ago at 11/16/14 5:37 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 11/16/14 5:28 PM

RE: Parallels to The Fourth Way

Posts: 53 Join Date: 8/12/14 Recent Posts
Yeah I'll definitely be doing some digging. I'll throw in more quotes if I find anything cool. Currently just starting with the Table of Contents and just going to the chapters that look interesting.

Starting on page 943 of book 3 there is a chapter about the "time-body". Very cool

Edit: *Very fucking cool
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Nik, modified 9 Years ago at 11/16/14 6:24 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 11/16/14 6:24 PM

RE: Parallels to The Fourth Way

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Page 605, Book 2: 

"One teacher in this school used the following phrase: "Safety lies in solitude". He added: "Let none imagine that solitude consists in living alone." I will paraphrase what this Sufi teacher said. he was dwelling on the importance of how we think of other people and whether our thoughts are entirely governed by their behavior. We all know that at one moment we dislike and the next moment like the same thing or person and think accordingly. When we know this by observation and reach a point in which both liking and disliking and all their thoughts do not govern us we become insulated from the ordinary power of life over us. Remember that this is not indifference but is a state of becoming conscious between the opposites that are always swinging our life to and fro as a pendulum. Indifference is mechanical but keeping between the opposites is conscious. It is like keeping our balance."
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Nik, modified 9 Years ago at 11/16/14 6:43 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 11/16/14 6:40 PM

RE: Parallels to The Fourth Way

Posts: 53 Join Date: 8/12/14 Recent Posts
This is reminding me of PCE descriptions (starting on page 601)

"It has often been said that unless you believe in something higher you cannot remember yourself. There is a certain emotional feeling always connected with Self-Remembering. You cannot just in cold blood remember yourself. It is necessary to get into a certain state, whereas one can observe oneself without getting into this particular state. Yet the two actions finally meet. Through Self-Remembering we come under new influences which otherwise cannot reach us. If you feel the extraordinariness of your own existence, if you feel the miracle of your body, of your consciousness, of the world that surrounds you, if you begin to wonder who you are, then you are in the state necessary for Self-Remembering..... I often said to you in the past things such as "Look at your hands, do you know what they are or how they move?" or "Look at the trees and ask yourself how it is you see them", and many other things of similar nature. In all this the sense of mystery is in us, the sense of the miraculous. It is not necessary to go to Tibet to find the miraculous. You can find it here, now at this moment... But usually we do not ask ourselves such strange questions, and even think they are absurd, or we imagine that they have all been explained by science whereas nothing has been explained by science. Unless you can look on life differently you cannot remember yourself. One form of Self-Remembering is remembering that one is in the Work and that one has to take everything in a different way according to the meaning and instruction of the Work... Life is coming in through your senses in bundles and packets at every moment but how are you reacting to it? ... To stand up in life with a feeling of distinctness of yourself experiencing life, of yourself looking at life and noticing the reactions it makes in you, to feel that you are living life and not that life is living you... It is only through a feeling of something higher that you can separate from something lower... One experiences the fact that by a curious kind of mental act, or if you prefer, an act of the will, it is possible to separate oneself from the immense morass of negative 'I's and, as it were, stand upright.... It is not a question of theoretically believing there is something higher, but of the actual perception of it in oneself, for the subject of this Work is this strange and complex thing called oneself.... the act of transformation consists in being aware of this and not identifying because one knows, because one can remember, that there are quite different ways of taking things, even if for the time being one cannot get into those 'I's that know better.... To realise emotionally one's mechanicalness is called a moment of Self-Remembering, whereas to be identified with one's mechanicalness, to be identified with every 'I' that takes charge, is called a state of sleep......."
Dave sdfsdf, modified 9 Years ago at 11/17/14 10:32 AM
Created 9 Years ago at 11/17/14 10:32 AM

RE: Parallels to The Fourth Way

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The part about opposites reminds me of Hsin Hsin Ming. To put up like against dislike is a decease of the mind, or something like that.
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Nik, modified 9 Years ago at 11/18/14 9:17 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 11/18/14 9:14 PM

RE: Parallels to The Fourth Way

Posts: 53 Join Date: 8/12/14 Recent Posts
There's really some amazing stuff here. I highly recommend reading the chapters on 'Internal Considering and External Considering' in Volume 1.  What looks very promising about 'The Fourth Way' is that it seems to really complement a lot of the AF stuff---> there seems to be a lot more information about the means by which one can rid oneself of the numerous cognitive-emotional snares that suck one into the state of 'sleep'. Still surfing all these pages.... it's like a gold mine... one with a lot of gold..... I will keep the quotes coming
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Nik, modified 9 Years ago at 11/20/14 8:10 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 11/20/14 8:06 PM

RE: Parallels to The Fourth Way

Posts: 53 Join Date: 8/12/14 Recent Posts
Here's some more about the opposites:

"We have previously spoken of the original conception of the just man. It was not a sentimental idea. The just man is between the opposites, in a state of equilibrium. By knowing how to withdraw force from the opposites, his centre of gravity is not pulled to one side or the other. This is only possible by reaching a definite feeling of one's own 'nothingness', as was said. To feel one is 'something' prevents one from reaching a position between the opposites. When the Work says that a man must come realize his own nothingness before he can be re-born, it does not mean that he must humble himself and so on, but that he must by long self-observation actually begin to realize that he is nothing and that there is no such person as himself. The object of this is to get into a position, psychologically speaking, between the opposites. I mean that it has a definite object. Why is it so important to get somewhere into the centre of the pendulum anand not swing to and fro? Because here, between the opposites, lie all the possibilities of growth. Here influences from higher levels reach us. Here, in this place where one can feel one's own nothingness and where one is therefore free from contradictions, influences and meanings coming from higher cenres, which have no contradictions, can be felt. Not regarding yourself as good or bad, not priding yourself on being just or otherwise, not thinking you are well-treated or badly-treated, not being caught by either movement through identifying, you come into this mid-position. This is not easy! With personality active, it is impossible...The opposites are thieves because what you build on one is undermines by the other. Or, to put it differently, joy leads to sorrow. But whatever is built in the centre cannot be taken from you." page 329 Volume 1-  "The Opposites Part IV"
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Nik, modified 9 Years ago at 11/20/14 8:42 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 11/20/14 8:33 PM

RE: Parallels to The Fourth Way

Posts: 53 Join Date: 8/12/14 Recent Posts
"Try to see what you are resting on, all of you. Try to see the basis of your self-satisfaction. You will understand that unless this basis is completely broken up there can be no change of being."

"You know that the Work says that people are mechanical. Now suppose you apply a Work idea of this kind at the moment when you notice that someone is making a customary negative impression on you. If you understand something of what it means when it is said in the Work that people are mechanical, then you will not accept the impression so easily. You will realize that it is not the person's fault. You will realize that the person always does this, always says this, because he is a machine. But of course you all know already that you will never really see in the right way the mechanicalness of other people unless you see your own mechanicalness and how you are constantly doing the same thing. Perhaps you will see what I mean by these illustrations of transforming impressions. If you have these Work-thoughts in connection with this person the impression will fall in a quite new place in you. It will be digested. But first of all you must have a new kind of thinking, before you can transform or digest these impressions. If you can do this you will find yourself entering on a very strange path that you cannot understand for a long time... To think in a new way about other people means that you yourself are beginning to change and when you are beginning to change you will feel that you are losing sight of yourself. ... To change, you must lose your ordinary feelings of identity... Now if you apply the Work as a transforming agent to your life, to yourself, and to people around you and the impressions they make on you, you begin to change... you whole relationship to other people change..."  page 339 Volume 1 "Digestion of Impressions"


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Nik, modified 9 Years ago at 11/20/14 8:41 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 11/20/14 8:37 PM

RE: Parallels to The Fourth Way

Posts: 53 Join Date: 8/12/14 Recent Posts
"Now I will speak of the digestion of impressions at the end of the day. If we could work more consciously we would digest impressions at the moment of taking them in, but since we have not this power, since we are not conscious enough yet, we can digest impressions taken in during the day at night-time or even the next day. That is, we can re-arrange them in our minds in terms of what the Work teaches as good and evil. Your remember that it is said in the New Testament that we should not let the sun go down on our wrath. It is important how we go to sleep and it is equally important how we get up. Past moments of sleep, past moments of identifying with wrong 'I's in ourselves, can be to a certain extent cancelled by consciously going over the whole situation in our minds afterwards. You must never think that you cannot work on a thing in your past. Never think that you cannot alter it. You can alter the present, you can alter the past, and you can alter the future." 339, Volume 1
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Not Tao, modified 9 Years ago at 11/20/14 8:56 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 11/20/14 8:56 PM

RE: Parallels to The Fourth Way

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I don't have much to say, but I'm enjoying reading these, so I just thought I'd pop in to encourage you to keep posting. emoticon
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Nik, modified 9 Years ago at 11/20/14 9:00 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 11/20/14 8:56 PM

RE: Parallels to The Fourth Way

Posts: 53 Join Date: 8/12/14 Recent Posts
The development of 'Intimacy'/True Respect?

"To our small 'I's living in mechanical divisions of centres, things may seem familiar by mere association which when seen from more conscious 'I's become unfamiliar. Thus we sometimes "behold" one another --- as for the first time. We see for a moment without associations. Impressions then fall beyond the machinery of mechanical personality. Then everything is strange, unfamiliar and vivid. Impressions then fall on essence. We get used to things owing to associations so we not longer see each other or indeed anything, but only our associations with which we completely identify. We take another person by our associations. We identify with these associations and so think we see and know the person. Now it is quite possible to observe associations at work with which we identify, and so get misled. It is quite possible to observe associations about others especially if one begins to realize one does not know them. For instance, people take it for granted that they know each other. This is illusion. We are nearly invisible to one another. But if you think you "know" you will not be able to "see" without mechanical associations. This means you must start from the realization that you do not know other people, however familiar to you they are. And so also with everything. We do not really know. But we are sure we know. Start from this idea that you do not know and have never known. Start, that is, from ignorance. This is the "poor" side. And this gives new life because you begin to get new impressions, new viewpoints, new understanding... We may imagine we see another person but it will be from our associations. In this way, we keep one another in the prison of our associations about one another. We have already formed our own opinions about others. So we do not allow others to exist beyond what we think of them by associations. This is a great tragedy. To let people go, as it were, let them be different, depends on our letting them go. That is, it depends upon our not trying to keep them to what we imagine they are by our mechanical associations... Remember that we see one another by our associations, once we become "familiar", as it is called, with each other. " 296 Volume 1
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Nik, modified 9 Years ago at 11/20/14 8:59 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 11/20/14 8:59 PM

RE: Parallels to The Fourth Way

Posts: 53 Join Date: 8/12/14 Recent Posts
Haha thanks dawg emoticon