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Self Defense
Answer
11/23/14 11:08 PM
So, what about self defense?

Say someone attacks myself, or my family, I would defend myself and my family and try to beat the shit out of them. Also,  what if a stranger is being attacked, shouldn't one step in and help? Isn't that compassion? If one did this up to the point where  they were incapacitated or ran away, I do not see this as being morally or ethically wrong.

So, since this is a harsh and violent world in which we live, and I understand, the best choice is to stay away from hostiles, shouldn't one know how to defend themselves?  (Then just send some Metta later?)

I understand it is a spiritual practioners job to try an alternate way other than vilolence, but I am talking of circimstances when one is actually physically being attacked, or another innocent person is being attacked.

I know what Jesus and Buddha say, but I ain't really buying it, I've tried to reconcile their teachings, but I just can see it as more than mythical, on this aspect. 

Does this mean I am stuck?

Or can there be self-defense without anger,  just "defending while defending"

Psi

RE: Self Defense
Answer
11/24/14 12:22 AM as a reply to Psi.
Aikido, the self defence art that focuses on defense by getting out of the way, painlessly (if they go to the ground it does not hurt, if they struggle they hurt) guiding the attacker to the ground and then immobilize them on the ground.

I never really had to defend myself to the hilt with Aikido so I can't attest to it's ultimate efficacy, but having my front line defence *not* be putting up my dukes and slugging it out is *much* less stressful in the kind of ambiguous situations that do often come up in life.

RE: Self Defense
Answer
11/24/14 10:11 AM as a reply to Matt.
Thanks Matthew, looking at Aikido, that looks very practical, I'm not really wishing to hurt anyone, just defend the family, or innocents.  (might have been a little restless when I started the post.)

Psi


And, question to all, again self-defense, about 3 years ago I sold my 2 rifles and my shotgun, but there have been riots nearby recently and could be again, I had sold the guns due to my spiritual beliefs, and still have those beliefs, but isn't it my duty as a householder to protect my family, should I buy a gun, again?  Society really is frustrating and I wish people wouldn't behave like they do sometimes, but it is what it is.

This kinda sucks.

Ultimately, I will have to make my own decision(s), just posing this dilemma to all.

But, probably, nothing will happen anyway...  (famous last words)

Psi

RE: Self Defense
Answer
11/24/14 10:29 AM as a reply to Psi.
This might help:

https://www.atpweb.org/pdf/masters.pdf
Compassionate wrath

RE: Self Defense
Answer
11/24/14 1:17 PM as a reply to Psi.
The statistics say that a person is more likely to be shot by their own guns than someone else's.  Your house is probably safer without guns.

The buddha and Jesus weren't being mythological - they were religious. If you really believe in reincarnation and karma, then you shouldn't hurt anyone or anything for any reason, and you should work hard to see all people through the immesurables only. The problem is that you aren't a religious Buddhist or a Christian, so you have to find your own ways that match your own beliefs.

What do you suppose is needed to end stress? It seems like this whole dilema is causing you stress rather than solving it, so I'd look into that instead. What is your goal, really? When you know this, it shouldn't be too hard to figure out a path there.

RE: Self Defense
Answer
11/24/14 2:35 PM as a reply to Not Tao.
Not Tao:
The statistics say that a person is more likely to be shot by their own guns than someone else's.  Your house is probably safer without guns.

The buddha and Jesus weren't being mythological - they were religious. If you really believe in reincarnation and karma, then you shouldn't hurt anyone or anything for any reason, and you should work hard to see all people through the immesurables only. The problem is that you aren't a religious Buddhist or a Christian, so you have to find your own ways that match your own beliefs.

What do you suppose is needed to end stress? It seems like this whole dilema is causing you stress rather than solving it, so I'd look into that instead. What is your goal, really? When you know this, it shouldn't be too hard to figure out a path there.
My goal is to keep my wife and children safe, here and now, if there is a hell and I have to go to hell to keep them from getting raped or murdered, I will gladly do so, but this situation doesn't really cause me any stress.  I guess one can protect their family and have the mind remain emotionless about it, have a "just a job" attitude.

So, I have thought about it, if someone attacks, I would have to defend, the karma is on them in that case anyway, if I make a mistake it's on me.  In any case , I might just get a few arrows for home protection, cheaper, and hard to shoot yourself with a compound bow.  emoticon

Psi

P.S.

I just had a dream and I had to kill giant hornets to protect my family, but before I did anything, the phone rang (in reality) we are picking her car up from the shop around 4:30-5p.m. a few miles North of Ferguson , Mo...  Funny huh?

RE: Self Defense
Answer
11/24/14 2:37 PM as a reply to Richard Zen.
Richard Zen:
This might help:

https://www.atpweb.org/pdf/masters.pdf
Compassionate wrath


Thank you Richard, you always amaze me with the links to knowledge, (and your excellent reviews), they help others probably more than you might think, (I'll keep my happy chemicals juiced up and get things done!)

Psi

RE: Self Defense
Answer
11/24/14 2:40 PM as a reply to Psi.
Psi:
And thank you, Not Tao, no guns is wise, I know you are a compassionate being:

RE: Self Defense
Answer
11/24/14 2:47 PM as a reply to Psi.
Psi:
Richard Zen:
This might help:

https://www.atpweb.org/pdf/masters.pdf
Compassionate wrath


Thank you Richard, you always amaze me with the links to knowledge, (and your excellent reviews), they help others probably more than you might think, (I'll keep my happy chemicals juiced up and get things done!)

Psi
I know, and it's probably a hindrance for me emoticon A lot of the questions people asked are already are asked by me sometime in the past and I've found some kind of solution. I also like psychology and when coupled with meditation it's like peanut butter and chocolate. Not all answers are in Buddhism.

RE: Self Defense
Answer
11/24/14 3:35 PM as a reply to Psi.
There is a difference between offence and defence. I would find no problem to use whatever methods to defend myself or others in the face of sheer blind violence. At the moment of being attacked or seeing some other person being attacked that is not a moment to be philosophical or religious. That is a moment to act and to a great part that is a question of training.

In most martial arts, all they do is attack and counter attack. There are other martial arts which don't go that way, like the mentioned aikido. However, even if the philosophy of aikido is wonderful I doubt 1% of aikido folks could really handle situations of serious offence. I once saw a Japanese 8. dan aikido master loosing his temper and trying to "educate" a well trained free fighter who in a friendly fashion questioned the aikido master's way of teaching. Well... that was both tragical and tragicomical to witness. Of course, there are many many schools and variations of aikido these days so some might have their chops together. A real martial situation is a whole another ballgame than doing techniques on tatami.

There is a training called "sakki". Sakki is Japanese and means literally murderous or killing intent. As far as I know sakki is trained in ninjutsu (Masaaki Hatsumi, check YouTube for some clips). Other than that I don't know how extensively this skill is practiced among traditional arts. So what sakki is is learning how to be aware and to be able to sense when there is an offensive intention coming your way and then do whatever necessary to either get out of the way or take defence. Some call this "sixth sense training" or something like that. Japanese zen and budo history has many stories of masters having this sense. Just recently a friend of mine told me that the Russian president's security guards become very skilled in this so that they are able to spot any weird vibrations even among big crowds. This is possible to do. I've been doing this with a few friends of mine who have several black belts in several martial arts. This is a wonderful way to train for a meditator and gives a niec angle to concentration and awareness as well.

When fists come up or a weapon is coming your way, there isn't much time to act. Perhaps all those techs one can acquire during years of martial training helps or not. It is wise to pray for peace on Earth as well as in one's own life.

Baba

RE: Self Defense
Answer
11/24/14 4:40 PM as a reply to Kim Katami.

I once saw a Japanese 8. dan aikido master loosing his temper and trying to "educate" a well trained free fighter who in a friendly fashion questioned the aikido master's way of teaching. Well... that was both tragical and tragicomical to witness.


On that note, I found this blog by Sam Harris entertaining and interesting. http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-pleasures-of-drowning

RE: Self Defense
Answer
11/24/14 6:30 PM as a reply to Kim Katami.
Kim Katami:
At the moment of being attacked or seeing some other person being attacked that is not a moment to be philosophical or religious.


I agree, and this is why I believe one should also stay somewhat physically fit , if able, in addition to meditation/contemplation.  In my opinion, if someone is being attacked unfairly, and one went to defend him/her, that is a compassionate wholesome act, though it may be violent. 

Thanks, Kim