Between 1st and 3rd path - Help?

Blue Jay, modified 6 Years ago.

Between 1st and 3rd path - Help?

Posts: 95 Join Date: 1/19/14 Recent Posts
Hello

I mentioned before that my best guess at my progress is 2nd path. But I'm not sure, as the definition is not clear.

Anyway, I feel I can reach the equanimity stage of the full cycle before 3rd path. It involves relinquishing control. It was dificult for a few weeks because I was trying to control my way out of suffering, to fabricate it. Instead I realise I have to surrender to the way out of suffering.

Two questions, though.

1- It looks like I can only relinquish a certain amount of control without becoming unstable. If I try to let go "too much" I cannot sustain EQ, because  too much control was involved. On the other hand, if I don't let go, I stay where I am. The strange part is that when I try to let go of just the right amount of control, it seems that the control above the solar plexus is relinquished. But below the solar plexus, it's not possible to relinquish control without unstability.  I feel a lot of tension in the abdomen, including huge blind spots and even kriya movements. I gave up on trying to reach 3rd path because it's too dificult now. But does it make sense to practice for a minor fruition that extinguishes the control above the solar plexus?

2- I haven't attained jhana on a consistent basis, not even the first. However, the practice I do, which is metta, makes me more happy than the rapture of 1st jhana. And I suspect that, even if I fully develop 1st jhana, it won't be as satisfying as metta. In my particular case, how important is jhana to attain the 3rd path?

_/|\_
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Dream Walker, modified 6 Years ago.

RE: Between 1st and 3rd path - Help?

Posts: 1335 Join Date: 1/18/12 Recent Posts
Blue Jay:
Hello

I mentioned before that my best guess at my progress is 2nd path. But I'm not sure, as the definition is not clear.

Anyway, I feel I can reach the equanimity stage of the full cycle before 3rd path. It involves relinquishing control. It was dificult for a few weeks because I was trying to control my way out of suffering, to fabricate it. Instead I realise I have to surrender to the way out of suffering.

Two questions, though.

1- It looks like I can only relinquish a certain amount of control without becoming unstable. If I try to let go "too much" I cannot sustain EQ, because  too much control was involved. On the other hand, if I don't let go, I stay where I am. The strange part is that when I try to let go of just the right amount of control, it seems that the control above the solar plexus is relinquished. But below the solar plexus, it's not possible to relinquish control without unstability.  I feel a lot of tension in the abdomen, including huge blind spots and even kriya movements. I gave up on trying to reach 3rd path because it's too dificult now. But does it make sense to practice for a minor fruition that extinguishes the control above the solar plexus?

2- I haven't attained jhana on a consistent basis, not even the first. However, the practice I do, which is metta, makes me more happy than the rapture of 1st jhana. And I suspect that, even if I fully develop 1st jhana, it won't be as satisfying as metta. In my particular case, how important is jhana to attain the 3rd path?

_/|\_

I can't make sense of what your talking about without a long conversation but what the heck....here is my best shot at answering your questions.
1) Forget where you are and go straight for the jugular - CONTROL - If that is what is arising then take that as object and start investigating the sensations that make up control. Anything that seems permanent or you or satisfactory....Apply the three characteristics....dig deeply into the controlling aspects and what is out of control. Can you give up control? can you control control? Find out experimentally. What happens when you do nothing? Watch carefully and see. Tease this apart.
2)Metta rocks....you are probably doing jhana with your metta...I do that all the time. Is getting jhana important? yes. but it depends on how you define it.
Good luck,
~D
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Dream Walker, modified 6 Years ago.

RE: Between 1st and 3rd path - Help?

Posts: 1335 Join Date: 1/18/12 Recent Posts
Dream Walker:

1) Forget where you are and go straight for the jugular - CONTROL - If that is what is arising then take that as object and start investigating the sensations that make up control. Anything that seems permanent or you or satisfactory....Apply the three characteristics....dig deeply into the controlling aspects and what is out of control. Can you give up control? can you control control? Find out experimentally. What happens when you do nothing? Watch carefully and see. Tease this apart.

Additional things to investigate....
Where does the sensations of control emanate from? Is there a center point to this? Does it stay there or move? Is there a physical component? Is there a mental component? can you shrink it? can you dissolve it? how many ways can you manipulate it? what happens when you don't manipulate it?
Where does the sensations of control end? Where is the perceived boundary? Is there a sharp boundary? Is there a faded boundary? both? neither?
Just some thoughts,
~D
Blue Jay, modified 6 Years ago.

RE: Between 1st and 3rd path - Help?

Posts: 95 Join Date: 1/19/14 Recent Posts
Thank you Dream Walker and Jenny for your replies.
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Jenny, modified 6 Years ago.

RE: Between 1st and 3rd path - Help?

Posts: 566 Join Date: 7/28/13 Recent Posts
Dream Walker:
Forget where you are and go straight for the jugular - CONTROL - If that is what is arising then take that as object and start investigating the sensations that make up control. Anything that seems permanent or you or satisfactory....Apply the three characteristics....dig deeply into the controlling aspects and what is out of control. 

I'd like to second Dream Walker here, although, as for going "straight for the jugular," I'd suggest treading lightly, as the blonde assassin does. What makes you think that control is somehow required to sustain Equanimity? Isn't that a strange paradox? As DW says, be sure to look not only at what seems to be control and controlling, but also at what is outside that. 

I suspect that realizations in Equanimity usually involve seeing the other side of a paradox that you've not before that point considered a paradox.

Try letting go of noting, of narrow focus, of hard effortful focus, and even of conceptualized "application" of the 3Cs. If you've seen Arising and Passing Away, you have "internalized" seeing the 3Cs. What would happen if you just rested in that faith?