How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey

How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey b man 2/11/15 5:56 PM
RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey Eric M W 2/11/15 6:46 PM
RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey Ryan J 2/11/15 10:23 PM
RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey b man 2/12/15 12:58 PM
RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey Ryan J 2/12/15 11:35 PM
RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey John P 2/13/15 6:06 AM
RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey b man 2/13/15 12:35 PM
RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey John P 2/13/15 12:53 PM
RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey Ryan J 2/13/15 10:14 PM
RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey tom moylan 2/16/15 2:09 PM
RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey Pål 3/12/15 7:42 AM
RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey Steve Anonymous 2/13/15 2:02 PM
RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey Tommy M 2/14/15 1:56 PM
RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey tom moylan 2/16/15 1:59 PM
RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey Blue Jay 2/16/15 4:20 PM
RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey Alexander Rice 3/7/15 4:38 PM
RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey Not Tao 3/9/15 12:07 AM
RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey b man 3/9/15 1:41 AM
RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey Not Tao 3/9/15 12:05 PM
RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey b man 3/9/15 6:16 PM
RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey Not Tao 3/10/15 11:27 AM
RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey Blue Jay 3/15/15 4:37 PM
RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg 3/12/15 5:07 AM
RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey Pål 3/12/15 7:39 AM
RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg 3/14/15 10:26 AM
RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey Pål 3/15/15 12:00 PM
RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg 3/16/15 6:30 AM
RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey Pål 3/16/15 12:37 PM
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b man, modified 7 Years ago at 2/11/15 5:56 PM
Created 7 Years ago at 2/11/15 5:56 PM

How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey

Posts: 199 Join Date: 11/25/11 Recent Posts
Just wandering how many of us on the board here have had issues keeping the balls of life in the air whilst dealing with what comes up during a regular meditation practice. I've had some quite challengening times over the last few years and have nearly lost my job a few times from either threatening to quit, actually quitting, getting in a big argument and thinking I was going to get fired etc!! 

I havent really been able to hold down a relationship during this period either, I just dont feel like I have the mental stability or energy to have a meaning ful relationshiop whilst going through some of this stuff, that might just be a lame excuse though! 
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Eric M W, modified 7 Years ago at 2/11/15 6:46 PM
Created 7 Years ago at 2/11/15 6:46 PM

RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey

Posts: 288 Join Date: 3/19/14 Recent Posts
Me! When the crazy dark night stuff hit the fan, I had great difficulty managing my job, my marriage, and my young children. That was two years ago, and I'm still pre-path. I still struggle with the dark stuff. Some days it feels like madness is held at bay only by the thinnest veil of sanity. 

The Progress of Insight is intense, and difficulties with operating in every day life happen to the best of us.
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Ryan J, modified 7 Years ago at 2/11/15 10:23 PM
Created 7 Years ago at 2/11/15 10:13 PM

RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey

Posts: 121 Join Date: 2/19/14 Recent Posts
I unearthed so much god dammed fucking terror, anger, and sadness. Man, that was tough. Nothing quite like having to go to class or work on the verge of a panic attack. I think the two very simple and important lessons were:

1) More concentration, calming practices
2) Cultivating lots of love, loving emotions, etc.

Very mundane, very cliche, but the entirety of western Buddhism and it's offshoots have a strong fixation on dry Vipassana that I find it hard to avoid going too far in that direction, even if you know better. Go to your local meditation center and no one even knows what concentration is, but they sure can tell you what mindfulness is.

The extent of the placebo effect with regards to practice is a recurring thought I have, and a personal criticism of being too fixated on Dark Night stuff, in the sense that yes, it can arise, but how much worse do your expectations make it?
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b man, modified 7 Years ago at 2/12/15 12:58 PM
Created 7 Years ago at 2/12/15 12:51 PM

RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey

Posts: 199 Join Date: 11/25/11 Recent Posts
Ryan Kenneth Johnson:
The extent of the placebo effect with regards to practice is a recurring thought I have, and a personal criticism of being too fixated on Dark Night stuff, in the sense that yes, it can arise, but how much worse do your expectations make it?

you know Ive thought about this before but theres no doubt that I have days (which come more regularly now that I am practicing more regularly) where it seems that emotionally I am more unstable, and then quite often something that has been really frustrating, annoying, or an issue of any kind that has been simmering but undercontrol during regluar times, just becomes explosive for me and it triggers a bit of an overreaction. Perhaps overreaction isnt the right word because quite often the times that I have noticed it happen I am usually have good reason, however the fact that is that normally I would have kept my cool and found another way to deal with it, a smarter, less explosive way to deal with it! 

Ironically I havent had one of these days for quite some time, it must have been a sixth sense that I started this thread last night because I just had one today and threatened to quit my job unless some people start doing thier jobs properly. *Gulp*

Guess I'll be dealing with the fall out from that tomorrow! 

I am genuinely interested in peoples thoughts on minimising this kind of thing though, because although I dont think anything major will result from today, I have no doubt pissed off a few people with my reaction to thier incompetence today and I dont really want to be that guy who does that, you know! It might be justified but its not really very cool. Agreed sometimes a bit of passion isnt always a bad thing but during these "fall out periods" for me, I dont always feel 100% in control. it just seems to come out. And then before I know it, there I am in the middle of a situation with someone. 

I think I have noticed alot of anger coming out before these times, I thought that doing lots of exercise would help but I think sometimest that seems to make it worse. Maybe some more metta practice is required (which is what I guess you are referring to Ryan), but I really would like to minimise the damage of these times, or if at all possible totally avoid them! I know Daniel Ingram talks abit about it in his book, about the importance of learning from his and others mistakes and not letting these periods mess things up. Maybe I should re-read that part of the MTCB - Also if there are any other mechanisms for coping with this kind of thing that has really worked for others, I'd be glad to hear about them, thats for sure :-)
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Ryan J, modified 7 Years ago at 2/12/15 11:35 PM
Created 7 Years ago at 2/12/15 10:52 PM

RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey

Posts: 121 Join Date: 2/19/14 Recent Posts
B man, 

I definitely see myself at times extra angry or fearful right after a sit, in other words, a strong correlation between meditation and intensively negative emotions arising. A year ago or so I was going through extreme fear, along with fairly strong anger and sadness, etc. Which seems to have died down quite a bit since then.

I ended up developing a lot of habits to plow through this. Purely sitting through it didn't work. What I ended up doing was a shock and awe campaign, where I went balls to the wall with generating positive emotions. I constantly took initiative in developing my expanded version of heavenly emotions: love, compassion, joy, gratitude, faith, forgiveness, there's equanimity somewhere in there too, but the point is that I simply had a nonstop factory line of intenting these things throughout the day to sort of preemptively soften the blow of the negative emotions. They come every day, the intense ones, literally like clockwork, typically around 11 am or so. My negative emotions still peak around that time, but are far less intense then what they used to be.

So I just got really intense about cultivating these qualities, even when I didn't feel them, the simple intention breaks the negative thoughtloop enough that it's already powering down. Be preemptive. Listen to over the top motivational videos to get you pumped. Become the most jacked mentally developed person possible. Keep attacking with intenting heavenly states of mind. Keep relaxing your muscles, your whole body, all day long. If it gets really intense, distract yourself with internet or TV. Every inclination counts.
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John P, modified 7 Years ago at 2/13/15 6:06 AM
Created 7 Years ago at 2/13/15 6:06 AM

RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey

Posts: 155 Join Date: 1/24/12 Recent Posts
Ryan Kenneth Johnson:
I think the two very simple and important lessons were:

1) More concentration, calming practices
2) Cultivating lots of love, loving emotions, etc.

Very mundane, very cliche, but the entirety of western Buddhism and it's offshoots have a strong fixation on dry Vipassana that I find it hard to avoid going too far in that direction, even if you know better. Go to your local meditation center and no one even knows what concentration is, but they sure can tell you what mindfulness is.

This.
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b man, modified 7 Years ago at 2/13/15 12:35 PM
Created 7 Years ago at 2/13/15 12:34 PM

RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey

Posts: 199 Join Date: 11/25/11 Recent Posts
John P:
2) Cultivating lots of love, loving emotions, etc.

This.
Do you find it best to do Metta practice before Vipassana, after it, or in a seperate session entirely? Or even just stop vipassana for a while and do metta for a few days / weeks?
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John P, modified 7 Years ago at 2/13/15 12:53 PM
Created 7 Years ago at 2/13/15 12:53 PM

RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey

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To be honest, I haven't thought of that so far.
I try to do metta or contemplation of death when I have some leftover minutes in my meditation time.
They usually aren't set by a meditation timer too.
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Ryan J, modified 7 Years ago at 2/13/15 10:14 PM
Created 7 Years ago at 2/13/15 10:14 PM

RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey

Posts: 121 Join Date: 2/19/14 Recent Posts
b man:
John P:
2) Cultivating lots of love, loving emotions, etc.

This.
Do you find it best to do Metta practice before Vipassana, after it, or in a seperate session entirely? Or even just stop vipassana for a while and do metta for a few days / weeks?
 
If I have an hour to do sitting practice, I will do 40 minutes insight practice, 20 minutes cultivating some love/heavenly emotion. I do the positive things after I do insight practices because as you do meditation you are essentially expanding consciousness. You are more receptive to information after the 40 minute sit than you were before it. While I can't say for certain, I suspect doing it afterwards hits you a lot deeper and harder because you're more sensitive, it's as if these loving emotions hit your consciousness further at the roots in your mind. At least, that seems a reasonable guess to me.

There are probably reasons to do it before insight meditation, but those are the reasons I do it as I do it. Maybe in 10 years I'll evolve to a point I just sit and do nothing, but this is how I do things now.

Also, in the height of my terror attacks I completely quit insight meditaiton for about 6 months, it was just that bad. I just did noting but loving-kindness, which I simply call love or a subset of love. Now I do about 70% insight, 30% heavenly mind state meditations, with however much formal time I give myself a day.
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tom moylan, modified 7 Years ago at 2/16/15 2:09 PM
Created 7 Years ago at 2/16/15 2:09 PM

RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey

Posts: 896 Join Date: 3/7/11 Recent Posts
tips..
watch the cause and effect of your practice.  having a diary or practice log helps.  see if by pushing your bleeding edge causes instability / emotional reactions and if so how much these effects lag the bleeding edge causal factors.

another general tip is..at the end of a vipassana sit..chill out intentionally..don't spring right up after a session and jump back into the rapids.

loving kindness is always important.  in the tibetan tradition  vajrasaatva holds a dorje and a bell symbollising the dual nature of wisdom (vipassana) and compassion (understanding the suffering of others).  its a good reminder to me that one alone cannot do the trick and leads to a bumpy path.  so the advice about metta is good in every case and don't forget to apply it to yourself!!!!!
Pål, modified 7 Years ago at 3/12/15 7:42 AM
Created 7 Years ago at 3/12/15 7:42 AM

RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey

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b man:
John P:
2) Cultivating lots of love, loving emotions, etc.

This.
Do you find it best to do Metta practice before Vipassana, after it, or in a seperate session entirely? Or even just stop vipassana for a while and do metta for a few days / weeks?


In the Sankhita Sutta,  a  monk is told to practice and master the brahma viharas before even trying to work with the satipatthanas (which btw should be done while in Jhana and not at all as "dry" vipassana). Maybe this is why the Dark Night isn't even mentioned in the suttas, not in anyone that I've read anyway.
Steve Anonymous, modified 7 Years ago at 2/13/15 2:02 PM
Created 7 Years ago at 2/13/15 1:12 PM

RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey

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This past spring and summer I developed severe sleep issues.  It made me anxious and exhausted.  In the middle of all of that my father died and an LTR I was in ended the same week (after a toxic demise).  I was waking up in the middle of the night with fear ( and not being able to go back to sleep ) several times a week for months.   I was having mild panic attacks at work.   I didn't start feeling like a human being again until late November.
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Tommy M, modified 7 Years ago at 2/14/15 1:56 PM
Created 7 Years ago at 2/14/15 1:56 PM

RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey

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Hi B Man, 

Your description sounds both common and familiar to me. I've walked out of jobs, ended relationships abruptly and without explanation, exploded at people and basically experienced a complete emotional breakdown. Even when I believed I was so highly attained that I wasn't affected by this stuff, I still got the shit kicked out of me by reality - all the claims of no emotions or total freedom from anger were bullshit and I got my head kicked in by the complete and total destruction of my entire life...

So yes...I, amongst many others, have experienced times when its been hard to hold it together. Don't worry, just be mindful that, at this point, you'll be more reactive and prone to emotional outbursts. Try to avoid any rash decisions and try to keep in mind that you're not seeing so clearly right now. This shit happens a lot and it will happen again and again as part of the natural development of deeper insight, but it can be passed through more easily with a strong supporting practice.

I hope you're well, stay strong and keep your head clear.

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tom moylan, modified 7 Years ago at 2/16/15 1:59 PM
Created 7 Years ago at 2/16/15 1:59 PM

RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey

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every single fucking one of us

i'm with you b man
Blue Jay, modified 7 Years ago at 2/16/15 4:20 PM
Created 7 Years ago at 2/16/15 2:32 PM

RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey

Posts: 95 Join Date: 1/19/14 Recent Posts
Guilty as charged!

I'm finaly coming out from the dark nigth before 3rd path, albeit timidly. Between 1st path and now, the only time I was truly stable was before starting on the next insight cycles to 2nd and 3rd. Until now it has been a blur of A&P, DN and low EQ. I've become aware of so much anger, frustration, sorrow, deep craving and fear that was repressed or unkown to me. The anger was too intense to pick a word to describe it. Plus I've been too careless with my moral conduct. I still don't know the full consequences of the way I've been acting until the last few days.

And I suspect that some of the consequences manifested in really weird ways. I did some things I really shouldn't have done, with a mix of pure and impure intentions. Since in this process I used low level and just mild psychic powers, I think this is coming back and will come back tenfold. And the way it comes back is weird, or intriguing. Daniel Ingram, as well as just about every teahcer, warn us that using powers with impure intentions is dangerous. I am learning this the hard way, and I suspect there isn't much I can do to warn others not to do this. Only when the mind is pure, motivated by the brahmaviharas, and with the wisdom that knows when to use these powers can we use them.

I have probably permanently ruined one very good friendship and jeopardised most of them. Dealing with the DN when outside of retreat is very hard. I don't know how hard is the DN before 4th path, but I hope it's nowhere this dangerous.

I forgot to ay the main thing. All my life, before 1st path, I chose the correct moral course of action. I became sure of myself and identified me with being a good guy all the time. What this arrogance did was trick me into believing that no matter whatI did, what I was doing was the correct course of action. The dismissal of effort to act good was very detrimental to a good moral conduct.
Alexander Rice, modified 7 Years ago at 3/7/15 4:38 PM
Created 7 Years ago at 3/7/15 4:38 PM

RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey

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3rd path dark night was the worst for me, been feeling remarkably stable since then, it's a really big shift and it doesn't feel like DN from now on will be much of a problem. Maybe premature optimism, but from the way I understand it I don't expect to go through andy epic months long cycles.
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Not Tao, modified 7 Years ago at 3/9/15 12:07 AM
Created 7 Years ago at 3/9/15 12:07 AM

RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey

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Hey guys,

It really doesn't have to be this way.  If you need a test case for whether samatha works or not, I can vouch for it.  My emotional life has been very stabile whenever I've been practicing tranquility.  I stopped a while back and it destabilized again, but it's a pleasant enough practice that I don't have any trouble staying motivated to do it.

I think any kind of mindfulness practice is essentually about letting go of control.  Without some idea how to seize control when things get bad, you're just opening yourself to your own internal weather patterns without any coat or hat.  Here in Minnesota we all have a winter kit in our cars in case we have a break down and can't rely on our heat.  You guys need a vipassana winter kit.  Some nice warm blankets, a chocolate bar, and a shovel at least...
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b man, modified 7 Years ago at 3/9/15 1:41 AM
Created 7 Years ago at 3/9/15 1:41 AM

RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey

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Not Tao:
Hey guys,

It really doesn't have to be this way.  If you need a test case for whether samatha works or not, I can vouch for it.  My emotional life has been very stabile whenever I've been practicing tranquility.  I stopped a while back and it destabilized again, but it's a pleasant enough practice that I don't have any trouble staying motivated to do it.

I think any kind of mindfulness practice is essentually about letting go of control.  Without some idea how to seize control when things get bad, you're just opening yourself to your own internal weather patterns without any coat or hat.  Here in Minnesota we all have a winter kit in our cars in case we have a break down and can't rely on our heat.  You guys need a vipassana winter kit.  Some nice warm blankets, a chocolate bar, and a shovel at least...

I'm sold! how do you structure your meditation time Not Tao? Do you include days where you are doing both vipassama and samatha?
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Not Tao, modified 7 Years ago at 3/9/15 12:05 PM
Created 7 Years ago at 3/9/15 12:05 PM

RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey

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I'm not sure I could claim I do any kind of vipassana meditation, TBH.  I probably average about 30-60 mins of tranquility meditation every day, and then I practice emotional observation for the rest of the day using Actual Freedom style techniques and some of my own ideas.

That said, I have tried a bit of noting recently and I found it had similar effect to the radical acceptance style practice I used to do.  I know they're not exactly the same thing, but I think the effects are close enough to judge whether tranquility practice will help even things out.  Basically, with noting, you're trying to avoid modifying your expeirence so you can get a good look at it, right?  So if you fall into a negative experience and feel like your drowning, tranquility meditation is a good antidote because it's about clearing out your mind.  Once it's clear, things tend to come into the mind one at a time instead of all at once, and this makes it easier to investigate them however you want to.  When you do those open kinds of practices, sometimes it's very hard even to figure out what's happening, and this can be bad if you're dealing with negativity because you might not even realize you're clinging tightly to it.  This is generally what I notice in myself when I start watching a single object - if I'm feeling negative it's like I'm addicted to it and my mind keeps re-creating the feeling over and over again.  There's a constant pumping in the chest like, "Look at it!  Look at it!"  It's hard to get anything useful from that, so the best thing to do is drop the whole thing for a while.  For me, when I come back to the problem later, I often have a hard time relating to why it was such a big deal before, and this can be a good insight in and of itself.  It shows that it isn't the problems that are such a big deal but rather the way we cling to the feelings.
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b man, modified 7 Years ago at 3/9/15 6:16 PM
Created 7 Years ago at 3/9/15 6:16 PM

RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey

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Not Tao:
....Basically, with noting, you're trying to avoid modifying your expeirence so you can get a good look at it, right?  So if you fall into a negative experience and feel like your drowning, tranquility meditation is a good antidote because it's about clearing out your mind.  Once it's clear, things tend to come into the mind one at a time instead of all at once, and this makes it easier to investigate them however you want to.  When you do those open kinds of practices, sometimes it's very hard even to figure out what's happening, and this can be bad if you're dealing with negativity because you might not even realize you're clinging tightly to it.  This is generally what I notice in myself when I start watching a single object - if I'm feeling negative it's like I'm addicted to it and my mind keeps re-creating the feeling over and over again.  There's a constant pumping in the chest like, "Look at it!  Look at it!"  It's hard to get anything useful from that, so the best thing to do is drop the whole thing for a while.  For me, when I come back to the problem later, I often have a hard time relating to why it was such a big deal before, and this can be a good insight in and of itself.  It shows that it isn't the problems that are such a big deal but rather the way we cling to the feelings.
This is really useful to me at the moment. I think i'll take your advice and take some of that medicine !!

Is your tranquility meditation the same as Samatha? If so, do you have a specific way of doing it or use a particular object to get concerntrated?
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Not Tao, modified 7 Years ago at 3/10/15 11:27 AM
Created 7 Years ago at 3/10/15 11:27 AM

RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey

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http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/5666656

I outlined my method in that thread. The reason I was calling it "tranquility meditation" is because it helps to remove expectations, haha. The Jhanas always have such dramatic descriptions, and they are dramatic, but if you're expectng that it can be another distraction. I often don't go into jhana at all, but still get positive effects and stabilization from the practice, so it's still worthwhile even if there isn't rapture and bliss at every sit. At the very least, it's always relaxing and calms the mind.
Blue Jay, modified 7 Years ago at 3/15/15 4:37 PM
Created 7 Years ago at 3/15/15 4:37 PM

RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey

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@Alexander

That's true. The DN before 3rd path is just awful and disgusting. Just as an example, I feel that I have poison in my physical heart. It's a bitter sensation, cold, black and agressive.

I still fall in the DN a few times, but I got the trick to get out, to EQ. It's leting go of the self, and its will. The self is just a lie that is felt pervasively in the body, especialy trough clinging. And this lie is what runs the show. Or rather, these agregates work constantly to feed this lie and this creates sooooo much suffering. The noble ones were so right!! If I let go of the self there's so much peace. If I let go of owning the aggregates, it's blissful beyond what I could imagine. What's left then, is the lie, it becomes obvious. I've been applying Dream Walker's advice to understand that there is no core to "me", no boundary of "me", and no personal space of "me". I didn't understand the purpose of these specific instructions, but I get it now. And I am so very thankful!

Dream Walker, I'll try to contact in a few days. Thank you.
Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg, modified 7 Years ago at 3/12/15 5:07 AM
Created 7 Years ago at 3/12/15 5:07 AM

RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey

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I've not only "struggled" to hold it together but completely failed at it and gone into complete insanity several times and ended up being locked up for weeks in mental institutions (where the "solution" is obviously to sedate rather than to progress).

The things "I" have done or rather what has happened with this body/mind system is pretty crazy by most norms. This is the short version:

1. Some sort of "dual awakening" happens together with my wife. 4 days of divinity happens.

2. At the end of the fourth day I get the "OMFG I AM THE WHOLE UNIVERSE/GOD AND SO IS EVERYONE ELSE!" experience. When this happens some sort of energy takes over and literally pushes me out of the apartment and places me paralyzed in the elevator. After I get pushed out of the apartment this way my wife goes out on the balcony and jumps from the 5:th floor, dying immediatly on impact.

3. When I snap out of the trance in the elevator and rushes into the apartment to see my wife I run into the arms of a group of police who have gone in while I was paralyzed in the elevator, they jump me (obviously) and beat me so severely that I am screaming for them to kill me and lose consciousness a few times, feeling like souls are leaving the body.

4. As I wake up in an isolation cell not knowing where I am or what has happened (just remembering being with my beloved and having this amazing experience) I am told by a police officer that I am arrested for murder, and that my wife is dead. I was kept for 3 days in isolation being interrogated while (obviously) my whole existence is crushed and I am just dropped into a pit of endless despair, grief and terror. After 3 days all charges are dropped but I am locked up in an insane asylum because during interrogation I tried to explain that I've had a meeting with god. 3 weeks or so of being locked up, forced to take drugs and getting bullied by staff follows.

5. I get released and basically spend a couple of months in a dark room crying and screaming for two months.

6. After that I try to figure out what happened. Since I was a rabid atheist before this happened I had no context for it, and no knowledge about much spiritual (believing it was all delusion and nonsense).

7. 18 months of alternating blissful experiences and complete fucking horror ensues. I can't actually describe what the fuck has been going on because it's just... insane. And it has resulted in several mental breakdowns and a complete deconstruction of my life. I've become homeless, abandoned by my atheist family (I actually consider them more like a source of emotional trauma than a family now), broke, unemployed and my reputation has been destroyed because of the rumor that I killed my wife in some sort of drug induced psychosis.

8. Since two days ago I'm in a mental hospital "voluntarily". I put that within quotes because what actually happened was that I (the ego) finally gave up and a voice came out of my mouth saying "This is your reward", that I get to experience the final death/deconstruction of my(false)self. After that the energy/spirit/god/whatever took over and took me first to see a priest and share some info with him, then it took me to a journalist where it confessed *everything*. Synchronicity was extremely strong so it was the usual "being led/pushed around to do/say/experience certain things" and finally it took the body to a hospital and signed itself in claiming that it was going to kill itself.

9. Now I am sitting here cycling like a mother, waiting for liberation/death/whatever comes. At this point it feels like either the ego goes or I will find out if it is actually possible for the ego to kill the body at this time. Because now that I know what I (the ego) is, there's just no fucking way that will continue to exist. The ego is just... I can't describe how disgusting it is now that I truly see it. It truly is the essence of evil. *shudder*
Pål, modified 7 Years ago at 3/12/15 7:39 AM
Created 7 Years ago at 3/12/15 7:39 AM

RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey

Posts: 778 Join Date: 9/30/14 Recent Posts
Detta låter fruktansvärt, hoppas det blir bättre! Var det någon särskild teknik som ledde upp till detta? Var det där svensk polis? Fyfan vad vidrigt. 
Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg, modified 7 Years ago at 3/14/15 10:26 AM
Created 7 Years ago at 3/14/15 10:26 AM

RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey

Posts: 131 Join Date: 10/26/13 Recent Posts
Pål:
Detta låter fruktansvärt, hoppas det blir bättre! Var det någon särskild teknik som ledde upp till detta? Var det där svensk polis? Fyfan vad vidrigt. 
Det var en kombination av NLP och amatör-tantra tillsammans med cannabis och ett existentiellt ställningstagande (konkret attt jag svor att ägna all energi och tid åt att hjälpa andra varelser) som ledde till detta, verkar det som.

Och ja det var svensk polis, dom är inte alltid så gulliga som i Astrid Lindgrens värld tyvärr. ;)
Pål, modified 7 Years ago at 3/15/15 12:00 PM
Created 7 Years ago at 3/15/15 12:00 PM

RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey

Posts: 778 Join Date: 9/30/14 Recent Posts
Vilka as...

Hoppas på snabb egoupplösning för dig nu! Du har inte prövat någon annan teknik under tiden? Jhanas ska ju göra vägen snabbare och mer behaglig. Kanske sånt som ditt exempel som är anledningen till att tibetanerna är så petiga med initieringar och vägledning. Men vad vet en nybörjare som jag.
Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg, modified 7 Years ago at 3/16/15 6:30 AM
Created 7 Years ago at 3/16/15 6:30 AM

RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey

Posts: 131 Join Date: 10/26/13 Recent Posts
Pål:
Vilka as...

Hoppas på snabb egoupplösning för dig nu! Du har inte prövat någon annan teknik under tiden? Jhanas ska ju göra vägen snabbare och mer behaglig. Kanske sånt som ditt exempel som är anledningen till att tibetanerna är så petiga med initieringar och vägledning. Men vad vet en nybörjare som jag.


I figured I would reply in english... hope you don't mind.

I've tried all kinds of methods, different meditations, different yogas, therapies, dancing, chanting and psykedelics. They all work. They all gave me something and brought or prepared me for what was to come. At least to me this process has been incredibly intense and dramatic, but I hope my journey is an exception rather than the norm.
Pål, modified 7 Years ago at 3/16/15 12:37 PM
Created 7 Years ago at 3/16/15 12:37 PM

RE: How many people have struggled to "hold it together" during the journey

Posts: 778 Join Date: 9/30/14 Recent Posts
You don't think the drugs can habe contributed to the path being this dramatic? 

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