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What is a fruition?

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What is a fruition?
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3/19/15 12:26 PM
Just trying to make sure I can follow topics here and I have a basic question on jargon. What exactly is meant by "fruition" in the terms of insight meditation? It seems from reading in context to be a break in conscousness during a certain point in practice signifying movement to a path? Is this the case or is it something else?
Thanks much.

RE: What is a fruition?
Answer
3/19/15 12:37 PM as a reply to Daniel F Gurzynski.
That's the way I understand it.  Haven't noticed happening to me yet. emoticon

RE: What is a fruition?
Answer
3/19/15 1:38 PM as a reply to Daniel F Gurzynski.
howdy and welcome.

this and more is described and defined in Daniel Ingrams book 'mastering the core teachings of the buddha' which is available online for free.

in it the 15 stage model is explained.  this is based on a burmese traditional theravadin model as explained by mahasi sayadaw.  when one meditates he experiences successively these 15 stages, eventually working up to the 15th stage called 'fruition'.  it is also another word for 'nirvana' or cessation and is when all perception stops.

the first time one completes this cycle and has a fruition this is called the first 'path moment' and that person is referred to traditionally as a sotapanna or 'stream enterer'.

in this model there are four of these cycles, or 'path moments' and with each one certain illusions are seen through and
certain habitual tendencies fall away, presumably for good.  after four paths, one is considered an 'arahant'.

one is considered enlightened after first path, but not completely enlightened.  there are other models of enlightenment which do not consider fourth path 'fully enlightened;.

cheers

RE: What is a fruition?
Answer
3/19/15 4:59 PM as a reply to tom moylan.
tom moylan:
... in this model there are four of these cycles, or 'path moments' and with each one certain illusions are seen through and certain habitual tendencies fall away, presumably for good.  after four paths, one is considered an 'arahant'. ...

I think that’s not completely accurate: Only the first and second path coincide with the completion of an insight cycle. The third and especially the fourth path are usually only achieved after going through multiple insight cycles. At least that’s how I understood it.

RE: What is a fruition?
Answer
3/19/15 10:28 PM as a reply to Daniel F Gurzynski.
Daniel F Gurzynski:
Just trying to make sure I can follow topics here and I have a basic question on jargon. What exactly is meant by "fruition" in the terms of insight meditation? It seems from reading in context to be a break in conscousness during a certain point in practice signifying movement to a path? Is this the case or is it something else?
Thanks much.
There are moments leading up to the fruition and the moments after that generally describe the whole "fruition" thing....between these moments there is nothing to say as there is no-one there to experience anything....so yes to your answer...in general it is a particular specific break in consciousness. You can have cessations after the path moment too during review.
Check the wiki button up top -links below

RE: What is a fruition?
Answer
3/20/15 3:00 AM as a reply to -- Timus --.
-- Timus --:
tom moylan:
... in this model there are four of these cycles, or 'path moments' and with each one certain illusions are seen through and certain habitual tendencies fall away, presumably for good.  after four paths, one is considered an 'arahant'. ...

I think that’s not completely accurate: Only the first and second path coincide with the completion of an insight cycle. The third and especially the fourth path are usually only achieved after going through multiple insight cycles. At least that’s how I understood it.
To get very detailed Timus you are correct. First and second are mostly staight forward...cycle --> frution--> path.  Getting third path can take several passes. This is how it played out for me. From third to fourth there are many many cycles, some that lead to frutions. Some of these seem to deepen things and some do not seem to. The getting fourth path(non-dual) "moment" is not necessarily a fruition per se.  For most people this seems to be a permanent shift to non-dual but it can shift back and forth several times until it stays if and when it does.
There is some variety as the map is not the territory.
~D

RE: What is a fruition?
Answer
3/20/15 6:05 AM as a reply to Daniel F Gurzynski.
Daniel F Gurzynski:
Just trying to make sure I can follow topics here and I have a basic question on jargon. What exactly is meant by "fruition" in the terms of insight meditation? It seems from reading in context to be a break in conscousness during a certain point in practice signifying movement to a path? Is this the case or is it something else?
Thanks much.


These days I wouldn't refer to the actual cessation moment as the actual fruition but the moments following. Fruition is phala-samapatti in Pali as I understand that term from past studies. Phala meaning 'fruit'. 

In the following Mahasi Sayadaw quote he talks about nirodha samapati (nirodha being 'cessation') but also what follows it being phala samapatti. and seems to indicate it as being something experienced as opposed to something not experienced (i.e. cessation moment). 

It has already been stated that phalasamapatti (fruition attainment) first begins to occur when arising from nirodhasamapatti. This phalasamapatti being free from raga (passion), etc., it is also called suññata(the Void). As it is free of raga-nimitta (one of the attributes of sentient existence), it is also known as animitta. Moreover, as it is free from passionate desire such as raga, etc., it is also called appanihita. As such, phassa which is also included in this samapatti is also known as suññata, animitta and appanihita. As phassa (contact) takes place by dwelling upon Nibbana, which is known as suññata (the Void), animitta (the Unconditioned), and appanithta (freedom from longing or desire), with attentive consciousness of mind, it is called suññata, etc. The answer, therefore, is that the three kinds of phassa, viz: suññataphassa, animittaphassa and appanihitaphassa first begin to take place. 

For better understanding, it may be stated that when arising from nirodhasamæpatti,contact takes place with suññata-nibbana, a condition devoid of kilesa-sankhara to which the mind has been directed as its sense-object. Contact is also made with animitta-nibbana which is devoid of or free from any sign of nimitta. Then comes mere awareness of contact with appanihita-nibbana, a condition free from vehement desire, which is the sense object that has been contemplated.

http://www.dhammaweb.net/mahasi/book/Mahasi_Sayadaw_Culavedalla_Sutta.pdf

This explanation rings true in my own experience of the post-cessation moments. it may be very insightful to play around with such access/abiltiy, to incline to cessations and then see to lengthening, exploring, experimenting with the post "reboot" period to see what and how the field of experience "takes shape" once again.

Nick's 2 cents.

RE: What is a fruition?
Answer
3/20/15 9:41 AM as a reply to Nikolai ..
Thanks very much Nikolai and everyone. I missed the description in MCTB and the various descriptions here make things much clearer.

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