Time(pause) between paths

John Power, modified 9 Years ago at 3/22/15 12:15 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 3/22/15 12:15 PM

Time(pause) between paths

Posts: 95 Join Date: 3/16/14 Recent Posts
What do you guys who have attained several paths think about the time(pause) between paths? Is there time needed after a path to get used to the new view in daily life? To reflect and compare the differences between lets say pre-path and after Stream Entry. I mean I know there is a review fase, but after this fase, is there still time needed to let the insight sink in and flow through everyday life.
I ask this question because I am planning a longer homeretreat and when I attain SE, I wonder if it is advisable to quit the retreat and go back to daily life to see what is different OR to continue and possibly attain 2nd path(especially because I hear 2nd path is rather quick attained after SE)?
Another but related question: Do you guys advice practising Metta after the review fase or go straight through the new cycle to attain 2nd path?

Thanks in advance.
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Eelco ten Have, modified 9 Years ago at 3/22/15 12:58 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 3/22/15 12:57 PM

RE: Time(pause) between paths

Posts: 81 Join Date: 7/20/13 Recent Posts
I haven't reached stream entry yet, so may be babbling.
The way you ask the question has me wondering though..
I like you are going to retreat until attaining SE or even 2nd path. I do worry you may be setting yourself up for a huge disapointment though.

Why not spend the time you have set aside for your retreat meditating.
After that integrate your insights into daily life.

If it happens to be SE 2nd or 3d path that needs integrating. Great.
If not integrate what did emerge from your retreat as it no doubt will be worth it, even if it wasn't SE.

With Love
Eelco
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Dream Walker, modified 9 Years ago at 3/22/15 1:32 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 3/22/15 1:30 PM

RE: Time(pause) between paths

Posts: 1770 Join Date: 1/18/12 Recent Posts
John Power:
I wonder if it is advisable to quit the retreat and go back to daily life to see what is different OR to continue and possibly attain 2nd path(especially because I hear 2nd path is rather quick attained after SE)?
The thing about getting SE is that it feels so nice that it is hard to keep up the motivation to continue to second path. It's a bit like when you get to EQ and most people slide back and have to do a couple more cycles until they figure out how to keep the momentum up. The month after SE is the honeymoon phase and it feels like a month long A&P that slowly fades away.

Benefits of quality use of Honeymoon time -
  • The review phase is nice to call up and re-experience the cycles of insite and gain mastery of these Nanas before launching into second path. If you would like more mastery of the Nanas then work on calling them up in review. This could help you in second path.
  • Working with cessations is also very nice practice.
  • This is also a great time to access the jhanas and gain some mastery of them while you have the extra "juice".
That being said there are a minority of people who have been able to get second path very very quickly after steam entry. I don't really know what to recommend ....there are pluses and minuses to both approaches.

There is no way to predict what will actually happen though, there is some variance on how it will unfold for you. The length of your review may be long or short, you may or may not be able to get second path going regardless of your desire do this or hold back from it, you may feel so fine as to not want to start second path. The path does you, not the other way around so make plans then see how it unfolds for you.
There is little you need do to "integrate" after SE. Things are just calmer and clearer in a nice way like the best of your best days...if everyday was more like this would you need do anything?
Explore your grasping for paths too....what's up with that? emoticon
Best of luck,
~D
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Jenny, modified 9 Years ago at 3/22/15 1:55 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 3/22/15 1:55 PM

RE: Time(pause) between paths

Posts: 566 Join Date: 7/28/13 Recent Posts
I agree here with Dream Walker.

The main thing you are likely to realize after SE is the great extent to which the Dharma is doing you, not the other way around. This realization lies squarely in the arena of not-self; therefore, plan and scheme as you may, what happens is likely to deviate from that plan significantly. Planning and gunning too hard for particular results is actually anathema to equanimity, so be careful to work with reality rather than trying to control it.

Daniel, in MCTB and elsewhere, recommends letting a new path "settle"--meaning, avoiding practicing like a maniac after getting a path, lay off driving yourself hard to get review fruitions, and instead let everything settle naturally, unfold naturally. It is a great time to practice and explore what you have, but try to stay in balance with regard to all areas of your life. Have fun!

My two recent paths were each followed by an unmistakable "honeymoon" period of about a month's duration, just as Dream Walker says. It feels exactly like a protracted A&P phase, with ecstacy, raptures, sexual energy, sudden interest in powers/magick--very heady, juicy, and a little bit nutsy. After both of these paths, I was driven to master the jhanas and didn't care about insight practice. This focus on jhanas is not what I expected or what I had "planned." But both times I dove into trying to master the jhanas, nonetheless. Truly, the Dharma is driving.
John Power, modified 9 Years ago at 3/23/15 3:10 AM
Created 9 Years ago at 3/23/15 3:10 AM

RE: Time(pause) between paths

Posts: 95 Join Date: 3/16/14 Recent Posts
I want to thank you all for your advice.

@Dream Walker: Yes I will certainly investigate the desire for getting paths. It is a mixture of the believe that SE is possible and the grasping for it. The believe that SE is possible is helpfull to keep going but the desire to get SE can get in the way of making progress, so my thanks for your advice! I will keep on the outlook for the desire.
John M, modified 9 Years ago at 3/23/15 3:48 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 3/23/15 3:48 PM

RE: Time(pause) between paths

Posts: 135 Join Date: 2/11/12 Recent Posts
Dreamwalker's advice is great in general, but I especially wanted to echo his recommendation to spend time exploring any jhanic terrain that might unfold. That's really something I wish I had taken more advantage of, myself.

As for any other notion of scheduling or planning around paths... well, good luck with that!
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Jake, modified 9 Years ago at 3/23/15 5:06 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 3/23/15 5:06 PM

RE: Time(pause) between paths

Posts: 135 Join Date: 4/18/13 Recent Posts
John M.:
Dreamwalker's advice is great in general, but I especially wanted to echo his recommendation to spend time exploring any jhanic terrain that might unfold. That's really something I wish I had taken more advantage of, myself.

As for any other notion of scheduling or planning around paths... well, good luck with that!

Can you elaborate on this John? I am very interested.
John M, modified 9 Years ago at 3/23/15 6:08 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 3/23/15 6:08 PM

RE: Time(pause) between paths

Posts: 135 Join Date: 2/11/12 Recent Posts
Hey Jake! As I recall, after 2nd path I experienced a pretty radical uptick in my ability to access jhanas 1-4 and especially their relative "hardness."  The contrast to pre-path jhana was actually pretty unreal -- it certainly challenged my notions of just how still, spacious, and imperturbable these spaces can become.

That said, it didn't last and it's not something I've encountered since. So, gather ye rosebuds while ye may!
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Jake, modified 9 Years ago at 3/23/15 6:30 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 3/23/15 6:30 PM

RE: Time(pause) between paths

Posts: 135 Join Date: 4/18/13 Recent Posts
I see, so it's kind of related to the honeymoon phase after path? 
John M, modified 9 Years ago at 3/23/15 7:05 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 3/23/15 7:05 PM

RE: Time(pause) between paths

Posts: 135 Join Date: 2/11/12 Recent Posts
In my case it seems so, which in truth was a bit disappointing after reading accounts of practitioners suddenly becoming jhana masters after SE.

There's always hope for 3rd and 4th, I suppose.