How does non-dual awakening relate to the four noble truths/statements?

Pål, modified 9 Years ago at 4/9/15 4:49 AM
Created 9 Years ago at 4/9/15 4:49 AM

How does non-dual awakening relate to the four noble truths/statements?

Posts: 778 Join Date: 9/30/14 Recent Posts
If the four noble truths(?) are true then how can an arahant in the non-dual model of awakening not be free from attraction and aversion? Is that something that only happens at parinibbana? 
thumbnail
Ian And, modified 9 Years ago at 4/9/15 12:22 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 4/9/15 12:08 PM

RE: How does non-dual awakening relate to the four noble truths/statements?

Posts: 785 Join Date: 8/22/09 Recent Posts
Pål:
If the four noble truths(?) are true...

First, the four noble truths are self evident truths. If you have any doubts about them, the lack of recognition is in you. And you will have difficulty in proceeding on with the practice until this error in view is corrected.

Second, what has you thinking that the so-called "non-dual model" is a mode of awakening in the way that Gotama taught about the achievement? Who have you been reading or listening to in opposition to what Gotama has taught?

Pål:
...then how can an arahant in the non-dual model of awakening not be free from attraction and aversion?
 
The only way to know is to achieve. To ask questions of others to speculate about one's own perception of reality demonstrates the height of ignorance and absurdity. It is for you to find out through your own exploration...not for those who know to explain the unexplainable.
Pål, modified 9 Years ago at 4/9/15 3:18 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 4/9/15 3:18 PM

RE: How does non-dual awakening relate to the four noble truths/statements?

Posts: 778 Join Date: 9/30/14 Recent Posts
At least the first three truths are obvious to me and the fourth make a lot of sense. But who knows, I might still be hallucinating ir something. 

I don't think it's a model taught by Gotama. Who have I read in "opposition" (it's not really opposing, just using another definition)? Well, Daniel Ingram.

It's unexplainable? I didn't know that. I don't even know how I know when I know... I think. Just evaluating the non-dual model. My hypothesis is it ends somewhere around suttaic stream-entry. I'll have to meditate and find out.
Derek, modified 9 Years ago at 4/9/15 5:32 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 4/9/15 5:31 PM

RE: How does non-dual awakening relate to the four noble truths/statements?

Posts: 326 Join Date: 7/21/10 Recent Posts
[quote=Pål]My hypothesis is it ends somewhere around suttaic stream entry.

I come to the same conclusion. When people talk about "awakening," they are referring to the step traditionally called stream entry.
Pål, modified 9 Years ago at 4/9/15 5:36 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 4/9/15 5:36 PM

RE: How does non-dual awakening relate to the four noble truths/statements?

Posts: 778 Join Date: 9/30/14 Recent Posts
Nice to know I'm not alone. Because the first of the ten fetters presented in the suttas that is overcone at suttaic SE is self-identity. 

Breadcrumb