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Synchronicity in A&P or EQ?
Answer
4/28/15 9:21 AM
Hi,

I practice Shinzen Young's Gone Noting, which is sort of Self-Inquiry practice dressed up (packaged) as a tipical Mahasi Noting method. Instead of noting arisings, you note passings, which eventually points to "The Source". In general, gones may be classified (my classification) in two dimensions: shallow-deep and  narrow-broad (regarding sounds, body sensations and images/thoughts).

Nevertheless, I practiced Mahasi Noting for over a year (on and off due to family/work constrains) so I'm aware of ñanas during the sits, as practices are related. I cross up to A&P where there seems to be recurring synchronicities: at a single moment there's a confluence of energy reaching the top of the head, the middle-end of the outbreath, the turning off of sounds and the drop of any thoughts (though I'm aware I can investigate what's happening). After that, I'm capable of staying easier on a non-discriminant mode with phenomena, which seems to be alike to what I have witness in Mahasi's Low EQ. But that would mean I'm sort of bypassing DN, or otherwise deluding myself, being still in A&P, just a deeper experience.  

In SY's framework, I would say it's a deep & broad gone. These synchronicities tend to pile up, to happen in "short" time intervals, say one per minute. 

My questions are, specially for the Mahasi (or related) guys:

- have you experienced some of these synchronicities? Do they happen in A&P, or EQ, or both? Any suggestions about for investigation?
- do you notice the cycling of energy, or is it just me? Is this necessary or suficient to trigger this deeper gones?
- (for SY guys): the rapid sequence of gones in order to get to Stream Entry, is it linked to how fast the energy cicle up and down the spine?

Added: In MCTB1, Daniel talks about the star-middle-end of outbreath at peak moments of A&P and H-EQ/Fruition, if I understood well. But these "experiences" (gones) don't feel at all like peaks. 

Also, I have reached that non-discriminant mode without deep-broad gones, in what seems to be a classical route: A&P (noting gones in outer phenomena), DN (noting gones in body sensations), EQ (noting gones in intention to discriminate between phenomena -thoughts, images-). So, here I go through the DN, whereas with the deeper-broader gones, either I'm dwelling in A&P or bypassing DN. 

Thanks!

RE: Synchronicity in A&P or EQ?
Answer
4/28/15 6:52 AM as a reply to PP.
reading your description gave a good info for me.

there seem to be two circles or wheels. One is small other is big.

Small cirlce is the noting. Every time you note(genuine note) energies will go down form the center of the head also its felt when energies are droping, perhaps little bit help with the jaw movement, or swallow or palate adjustment.

Big circle- small circle acts like a pump. Energies are rising slowly up through knots and junk back of the spine all the way to the forehead.
there is many sensations and effects, dark nights, arising and passing away, lifeview changings.

Small and big circle meeting point is at the forehead or thirdeye where you can do the connection of these two wheel energies. And then this integrated energy will proceed going somewhere, perhaps to the heart, (anyway at some point energies will go to heart and it is felt and heart will do its calibration[not sure if it is heart, its center of the breasts]).

RE: Synchronicity in A&P or EQ?
Answer
5/3/15 1:56 AM as a reply to PP.
Pablo . P:
Hi,

I practice Shinzen Young's Gone Noting, which is sort of Self-Inquiry practice dressed up (packaged) as a tipical Mahasi Noting method. Instead of noting arisings, you note passings, which eventually points to "The Source". In general, gones may be classified (my classification) in two dimensions: shallow-deep and  narrow-broad (regarding sounds, body sensations and images/thoughts).
To me, the noting gone technique is an exercise of noticing the arising and the complete ending of sensations. The ending is often overlooked so his advice puts more focus on really seeing the impermanence of each sensation. This kind of training is really useful when you get up to high EQ, where the gaps between the end of one sensation and the arising of the next sensation occur. By training yourself to look at the end you are more likely to percieve these gaps and then investigate deeply into the gap to the "source" and then stream entry occurs.
Pablo . P:

Nevertheless, I practiced Mahasi Noting for over a year (on and off due to family/work constrains) so I'm aware of ñanas during the sits, as practices are related. I cross up to A&P where there seems to be recurring synchronicities: at a single moment there's a confluence of energy reaching the top of the head, the middle-end of the outbreath, the turning off of sounds and the drop of any thoughts (though I'm aware I can investigate what's happening). After that, I'm capable of staying easier on a non-discriminant mode with phenomena, which seems to be alike to what I have witness in Mahasi's Low EQ. But that would mean I'm sort of bypassing DN, or otherwise deluding myself, being still in A&P, just a deeper experience.  
I don't know what you mean by synchronicities.
What you are describing sounds like you are jumping from the second vipassana jhana to the fourth without noticing the inbetween stages. I spent many months practicing by entering the vipassana jhana aspects and moving up to fourth vipassana jhana/11th nana, then practising noticing and labeling of what was noticed from there. I usually only noticed the 3rd and fourth jhanas and ignored the nanas and thus skipped the stages of dark night on the cushion.

Pablo . P:

In SY's framework, I would say it's a deep & broad gone. These synchronicities tend to pile up, to happen in "short" time intervals, say one per minute. 
I do not understand as I have not done this practice.
Pablo . P:

My questions are, specially for the Mahasi (or related) guys:

- have you experienced some of these synchronicities? Do they happen in A&P, or EQ, or both? Any suggestions about for investigation?
- do you notice the cycling of energy, or is it just me? Is this necessary or suficient to trigger this deeper gones?
- (for SY guys): the rapid sequence of gones in order to get to Stream Entry, is it linked to how fast the energy cicle up and down the spine?
I do not understand as I have not done this practice.
Pablo . P:

Added: In MCTB1, Daniel talks about the star-middle-end of outbreath at peak moments of A&P and H-EQ/Fruition, if I understood well. But these "experiences" (gones) don't feel at all like peaks. 
Notice the whole thing as well as you can. Do not ignore any part of it. If you are in Nana 5/dissolution you will only be getting the "ends" of the arising. Just investigate what you can, as you can, as much as you can. Dont over worry about what "should" be happening just what IS happening.
Pablo . P:

Also, I have reached that non-discriminant mode without deep-broad gones, in what seems to be a classical route: A&P (noting gones in outer phenomena), DN (noting gones in body sensations), EQ (noting gones in intention to discriminate between phenomena -thoughts, images-). So, here I go through the DN, whereas with the deeper-broader gones, either I'm dwelling in A&P or bypassing DN. 

Thanks!
Trust in where you are going. When things shift to where ever they do just continue along and investigate from there. There is a thread where Tarin talks of practicing as if you were always in EQ regardless of the nanas. It's pretty good advice.
Good luck,
~D

RE: Synchronicity in A&P or EQ?
Answer
5/3/15 3:33 AM as a reply to Dream Walker.
ñana.subñana notation might help, or even vipassana jhana.subjhana notation, or even ñana.subjhana notation

it is hard to map people over the web, but you might be getting into something I would call either ñ4.j4 (the equanimity part of the A&P, could also be called vj2.vj4, meaning the equanimity part of the 2nd vipassana jhana, or even vj2.vj3 which would be the third jhana part of the second vipassana jhana, and, for those who think these fine discriminations are too picky, they actually can really help explain a lot that happens), or even dropping from the A&P into Dissolution and back to the A&P, which sometimes people can do, and dissolution would likely fit the bill for broad gone, as it is wide, diffuse, and things are disappearing in it.

i agree with dreamwalker: just enjoy it, pay attention to it, and see the true nature of it regardless of what it is

RE: Synchronicity in A&P or EQ?
Answer
5/3/15 7:23 PM as a reply to Banned For waht?.
Rist Ei:
there seem to be two circles or wheels. One is small other is big.
Regarding those circles, some Taoists say there's a circle involving lower Dantien (Hara) and middle Dantien (Heart), and another one involving the middle and higher Dantien (Crown). These latter happening once the other one is already built-clean-connected. Sorry, I cannot comment much on energetic practice. 

RE: Synchronicity in A&P or EQ?
Answer
5/3/15 9:15 PM as a reply to Dream Walker.
Dream Walker:
To me, the noting gone technique is an exercise of noticing the arising and the complete ending of sensations. The ending is often overlooked so his advice puts more focus on really seeing the impermanence of each sensation. This kind of training is really useful when you get up to high EQ, where the gaps between the end of one sensation and the arising of the next sensation occur. By training yourself to look at the end you are more likely to percieve these gaps and then investigate deeply into the gap to the "source" and then stream entry occurs.

Thanks D for taking your time to give a thoughtful feedback.

Yes, Gone Noting looks like noting the gaps between frames in High-EQ, as described by many in DhO. So trying this kind of practice, at first your kind of noting (narrow) passings rather than (complete) gones. But that doesn't mean that every now and then there's some deep gones (wouldn't say their complete, though they look that to me, given my current knowledge). 

Actually, Shinzen applies noting much to everything. He shows a variety of methods:

(1) standard dry vipassana noting, like Mahasi's;
(2) a narrow kind of noting called "Flow" (a full Impermanence method), which works as a precursor to his "Expansion-Contraction" model (how the Source manifest);
(3) another narrow kind of noting called "Rest" (a mixed Samatha-Vippasana method), which in turn works as a precursor to "Do Nothing" (Zen) practice;
(4) a third kind of narrow noting called "Gone" (a mixed Vipassana / Self-Inquiry method), which in later stages merges with Expansion-Contraction and Do Nothing practices.

Regarding Gone as a Self-Inquiry method (packaged as noting), see him explain it at 15:24  "Description of Paths to Liberated Experience"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL-oEF2lQRI

Dream Walker:
I don't know what you mean by synchronicities.

What I meant by synchronicities, is that at once there's a passing of outer-inner sounds, images/thoughts, the (end of) outbreath, plus an energetic peak in the forehead at that moment. Maybe it's a sequence, one triggered by another, can't tell as for now. 

Dream Walker:
What you are describing sounds like you are jumping from the second vipassana jhana to the fourth without noticing the inbetween stages.... I usually only noticed the 3rd and fourth jhanas and ignored the nanas and thus skipped the stages of dark night on the cushion.
I thought too that I was doing that jumping from 2nd to 4th VJ, or actually going back and forth A&P to Dissolution by noting gones, and then jumping the other DN ñanas up to EQ. But there were the possibility of mixing up VJ with subVJ, Daniel's fractal model.

Dream Walker:
Pablo . P:

In SY's framework, I would say it's a deep & broad gone. These synchronicities tend to pile up, to happen in "short" time intervals, say one per minute. 
I do not understand as I have not done this practice.

Shinzen Young explains fruition as the piling up of (deep) gones in rapid succession. Much like what it's described in High-EQ watching in between frames. 

Dream Walker:
Notice the whole thing as well as you can. Do not ignore any part of it. If you are in Nana 5/dissolution you will only be getting the "ends" of the arising. Just investigate what you can, as you can, as much as you can. Dont over worry about what "should" be happening just what IS happening.
....
Trust in where you are going. When things shift to where ever they do just continue along and investigate from there. There is a thread where Tarin talks of practicing as if you were always in EQ regardless of the nanas. It's pretty good advice.

Thanks! I'll remaind that. 

Pablo 

RE: Synchronicity in A&P or EQ?
Answer
5/3/15 9:49 PM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Daniel M. Ingram:
ñana.subñana notation might help, or even vipassana jhana.subjhana notation, or even ñana.subjhana notation

it is hard to map people over the web, but you might be getting into something I would call either ñ4.j4 (the equanimity part of the A&P, could also be called vj2.vj4, meaning the equanimity part of the 2nd vipassana jhana, or even vj2.vj3 which would be the third jhana part of the second vipassana jhana, and, for those who think these fine discriminations are too picky, they actually can really help explain a lot that happens), or even dropping from the A&P into Dissolution and back to the A&P, which sometimes people can do, and dissolution would likely fit the bill for broad gone, as it is wide, diffuse, and things are disappearing in it.

Thanks for the input Daniel. I thought too in ñ4.j4 or a jumping from Dissolution to Low EQ. Never thought I could be going back and forth A&P and Dissolution in one-minute cycles.

Daniel M. Ingram:
i agree with dreamwalker: just enjoy it, pay attention to it, and see the true nature of it regardless of what it is

Will do that, thanks!