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Rumpy pump
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6/13/15 6:12 PM
Regarding sexual tantra, I think I'm safe in saying that the vast majority of sexual tantra teachings take a heterosexual, monogamous, intercourse model. Some of these seem really bound up with traditional monogamy and quite old fashioned. Some tantric gurus have even said it is impossible to become fully enlightened without this or that particular hetero practice.
Is this valid, or would a proper survey of the field show that in fact spiritual experiences and realisations can happen in any sexual context ?
The only survey I know is by Jenny Wade in Transcendent Sex, which kind of indicates that the field is much broader than many of the tantrists would have us believe, and that in fact following practices and teachings is not always needed or the only way to progress.

RE: Rumpy pump
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6/13/15 11:50 PM as a reply to Stick Man.
Wow, after writing that I got really buzzed up and fell asleep and had a sexy buzzed up dream. We must do this again some time.

RE: Rumpy pump
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6/19/15 1:08 PM as a reply to Stick Man.
Actually, I think the contrary may be true, I'm sure I've heard about a study that says that more spiritual experiences arise out of sex than meditation. I believe the order was sex, then spontaneously in nature, then through cultivated means like meditation.
I know, the response will be that experiences are not enlightenment, only this or that path is the true one etc - but I'm not convinced, and does anyone really have the data ?
I get the feeling this may turn out to be like religious claims that there is no homosexuality in nature - when somebody really looks it turns out to have been merely assumption.

RE: Rumpy pump
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6/19/15 2:20 PM as a reply to Stick Man.
I asked someone about this, and this is the reply he gave:

"If one is to go the full way to enlightenment, then the sex drive must be transcended, or it is not going to work for you.

"To talk about one's sexual gender, for instance, is a bit of a misunderstanding. When you have attained enlightenment, you are no sex. Sex is dead. Sex is to do with the lower self you were.

"One further thing is this: they do not call enlightenment a REALIZATION for no reason, because all the labels have fallen away, all the identifying also falls away, and you come into touch with the cosmic conscious, and by so doing you KNOW YOU ARE SO MUCH MORE THAN ANY SEXUAL GENDER.

"Truth is you are beyond sex.

"Don't therefore expect to return home after a meditation that has given you true enlightenment and expect to be able to function on a sexual level. It will be difficult to maintain an erection, unless you create and re-train the energies of sex. This is one among many other reasons why it is difficult for a person who has attained enlightenment to come back into normal life. It will take reconditioning, and retraining sexual pathways."

RE: Rumpy pump
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7/8/16 11:53 AM as a reply to Derek.
Old thread - resurrected like Lazarus..

Desire, craving, thinking about what to do to satisfy needs. It's never been really clear to me what the difference is between craving and simply arranging for your needs to be met. Is thinking about what to buy at the shops, which foods you would prefer, the same thing as craving the pleasure of dinner ? Is thinking about how to seduce someone the same thing as craving sex ?
Reading what a lot of buddhists say, some of them clearly think they are conquering the craving for sex by abstaining and taking vows etc - yet they still arrange for their other needs to be met, having cleverly figured out that abstaining from food will kill them but abstaining from sex won't. But it still seems like a contradictory attitude keep enjoying food, stop enjoying sex - and makes me very skeptical of the wisdom of the famous celibate monks and abbots that people follow.

So, yeah I see your point about doing these things with a present mind, meditatively. Many meditation teachers seem to believe that thoughtless, mindfull awareness is the way to overcome craving - but planning and consideration of needs are thoughtful exercises.

Is it really possible to get your groceries with a blank mind, through spontaneous, thoughtless purely physical action ? Some seem to imply this.

I'd like to know if anyone found themselves at the checkout with a bag of veg and no awareness of having thought about it at all ! Or found themselves making love with no idea how they got there. (yes, I know, beer).

So some teachers say "OK, you need to think about practical things, but you should aim to eliminate pointless worry and emotion. Or pointless worry and emotion disappear with practice."

It also occurs to me that some of the celibate masters may simply be gay, and were never interested anyway, but stay in the closet due to cultural factors.

And the other issue is - if someone is so skilled at meditation that they can summon up superb exquisite bliss, why bother with sex at all ? Which I guess is what the various monastic think about it. But this is obviously not the choice of many people here who have partners. Maybe it's for tax reasons emoticon

RE: Rumpy pump
Answer
7/8/16 4:03 PM as a reply to Stick Man.
John:
Actually, I think the contrary may be true...

Nah. Pawel is right.