Channeling, HGA, Oracle, inspiration of the muses, prophecy, possession

Just kind of Investigating this phenomenon.

So, surely we have all had dreams, and talked to people in dreams, we talk internally to ourselves, we playact conversations, and have imagined what if scenarios in our minds with people, .  

So, what exactly is Channeling, is it just a normal brain function, but somehow considered taboo?  Is it dangerous?  Is there real wisdom here?  Is it  a normal brain function in the sense of visualization, except auditory?  Or is it like doing math in the head?  Is it thoughts from our own minds, or really from others , or from other dimensions?

What does Psychology have to say about this phenomenon?  Carl Jung?

Or, is it just a sidetrack, dead end street, and obviously not needed for liberating the mind and establishing peace and sanity within.

Some links.

The Channeling Phenomenon: A Multimethodological Assessment, Journal of Integral Theory and Practice, Volume 4, Number 3, Fall 2009.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nechung_Oracle


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediumship#Channeling


I guess alot of the taboo about this subject is the stigmatism from psychology about people being crazy, hearing voices, schizophrenia, etc.

Then there is the taboo from Churches, about demon possession, though chunks of the Bible were channeled.  For instance St. Paul never ever met Jesus in physical form, but only through Channeling, Paul makes a big chunk of New Testament.  Not to mention Moses and the Burning Bush, etc...

Obviously , Channeling is not necessary for sane awakening, Insight etc.  I am merely discussing this as phenomenon.  And the possiblity of this being a higher brain function that could be safely accessed, and one day looked upon as no different than doing math or composing music in our heads, instead we are composing insights.  

Any thoughts, links, concerns, references, experiences?

Psi

Someone posted this quote from Ramana Maharshi on Facebook the other day.

I've quoted it all so you can see the context, but I've bolded the key sentence.

THE POWER OF CONCENTRATED MIND

Q: St Theresa and others saw the image of the Madonna come to life. That was external. Others see the image of their devotion in their mind's eye. This is internal. Is there any difference in degree between the two?

M: Both are good and indicate that the person has strongly developed in meditation. There is no difference in degree — one has the concept of divinity and draws mental images and feels them, the other has the concept of divinity in the image and feels it in the image. The feeling is within in both instances.

Q: In St Theresa's case, she was devoted to a figure of the Madonna which she saw come to life, and was then in bliss.

M: The animated figure prepared the mind for introversion. There is a process of concentration on one's shadow, which eventually becomes animated and answers questions put to it. That is due to manobala (power of mind) or dhyanabala (power of meditation).
Whatever is external, is also transitory. Such phenomena may produce joy temporarily, but abiding peace does not result.
This is achieved only by the removal of avidya (ignorance).

- Conscious Immortality

Interesting, I was unaware of him speaking on such matters, thank you for that.

So, reading this opened a flood of associated thoughts.  Shadow , unconscious, unused sections of the brain, suppressed areas of the brain, unused brain capacity, fragmentation.

Enlightenment , to make whole, holy,  to liberate.  This Mind duality seems to be everywhere, different metaphors and description based upon the prior mind conditioning of each individual.

Jesus went into Hell for three days to free souls from Hell.  As a metaphor the Christ, or consciousness, went into Hell, the unconsciousness, liberated lost souls, the suppressed thought formations and conditionings.

Jesus walks on water and stills the storm.  Again metaphor for the stilling of the mind, the storm being monkey mind, the water being the consciousness, and the walking on water, the movement of Peace.

Back to Op

Guardians of the Gate, Threshold

Jesus had Satan, Buddha had Mara, Shinzen Young had his Locusts, Daniel had Dark Night.

All have to be crossed, worked through.  Pot seems to be stirred up, then sorted out, so to speak.

But there does seem to be some wisdom in using Wise Discrimination, just because something comes up from the Unconscious Realm does not make it True, Wise, or Wholesome.  Though it can be.

Also, there seems to be the making whole of and realizing of, Ida and Pingala, Yin and Yang, Positive and Negative, Good and Evil, Life and Death.

There are also layered representations, Chakra systems, Totems

I would imagine if they had an Enightened Person call the coin toss at the Super Bowl, there may be trouble.

"Call the coin in the air, Heads or Tails."

Enlightened Person calls, "Coin."

Everyone goes quiet.

Psi

[quote=
]There is a process of concentration on one's shadow, which eventually becomes animated and answers questions put to it. 

To all, just pondering,

So, it seems Ramana is saying this is a normal possibility of the mind, trainable, and that there is a method to do so.  And that there seems to be a way to access the Unconscious Mind.  But, a mode of communication has to be set up first. A go between, a messenger , of sorts, an Angel, or some other form of symbol that the mind can use to make form from the formless.

And, I wonder, can this be merged, to have the consciousness become whole?  No go between, but direct contact.  Or is the flow of sensations just too overwhelming to handle all at once, all the time, thus the need for the separateness illusion.

This is all way over my head, and yet intruiging and perhaps vitally important , for some , as yet, unknown reason.

Psi

I've been curious about that kind of thing too.  From what I've seen, there seems to be something that is like a subconscious process.  Sometimes under conditions of danger, I can see my conscious mind kind of recede and something else takes over and is more effective.  Like something air born was going to hit me on the head a few weeks back but then according to witnesses I just flicked my head insanely to the side and dodged it, people said it was a very cool looking dodge, but my conscious mind had not really even processed it and I wasn't really aware of moving my head much, maybe only an inch but witnesses suggested it was a lot more than that.  What moved my head if not my conscious mind? 

Another time some months ago, I was out hiking and some weird guy was sort of challenging me in a weird way for no apparent reason.  He was asking me aggressively why I was out there even though it was a public place (except we were alone at the time) and it was obvious I was walking my dog.  Consciously, I had planned some kind of partial lie to try to smooth things over, but then that other part of me sort of emerged and I told him I was out there 'because I liked it' in a very quiet but intense kind of serious and penetrating voice.  It was a kind of weird experience because it was like it was not 'me' that was running the vocal cords but yet I could get a feeling for that which did, which did not seem like the normal me that I am familiar with but not like not me either (hard to describe).  Anyway, that tactic worked, the guy seemed intimidated somehow and left me alone.  When I was saying it, one thing I felt was that the me that was saying it would absolutely not lie even in the tiniest nuance like that was just contrary to it's nature.  Kind of reminded me of some old sayings about the enlightened ones being incapable of lieing, not that I am saying I am normally that though, but it was like that, like lieing was not an option for some reason just totally contrary to its nature.  I am sure that 'me' would not lie like if someone asked it if that dress made her look fat, it would just say 'yes' (assuming it was true) plain and simple without even the tiniest misdirection.  In that way, it seemed rather alien because in normal life, one might choose to not say something offensive or whatnot, but that part of me I think would say whatever was the most true no matter what.  I really don't know what that thing is but I think of it as either my subconscious mind or part of my subconscious mind.

From a theoretical perspective, there should be a part of me that fabricates dreams for instance.  Even when I become lucid/conscious in a dream, I am not consciously aware of the part of me that is making the dream scenery.  Also, when people drive and are distracted by other things like thoughts or talking, something still drives the car and before you know it, you are home.  For me, that something that is driving knows the common routes I take, can avoid cars, stop and go at lights, move my feet on the pedals, etc, even though I am not consciously paying attention, so it has to be reasonably smart.  And of course, there is something that directs the autmatic bodily functions like digestion, breathing etc. although could be more automated that driving perhaps. 

Anyway, so in summary, I think there is some kind of subconscious type awareness/es that can maintain and move the body, drive, make amazing dream images and storylines, and talk using my vocal cords in certain situations.  My moods also probably are in there somewhere.  And my concscious mind does not see it or how it does this.  Which is pretty interesting when you think about it!  Would not surprise me if people can tap into this when channeling or whatnot, but still does not tell me much more about what this thing is, how it makes decisions, where its info comes from, etc.  But there is some science suggesting that this subconscious mind is where the conscious thought originates, which would make sense as well.  When I meditate, I can see the conscious thoughts stir and then suddenly become full blown thoughts, but where does the stirring come from?  Science would probably say it's the subconscious mind but although science has a label for it, they don't seem to know much about it!  ;-P
-Eva 

Now,this is weird,the less active the language areas of the brain, the more complex and detailed the writing was,in the channeling trance state, that is.  Yet more evidence pointing to the increased efficiency of Letting it Go and Lettting it Flow.  Seems to be a common thread in Insight Transmission, Music, Sports, Art, etc...

http://news.discovery.com/human/psychology/spirituality-brain-function-mediums-121116.htm
I think the expert type he is referring to , is when one is more expert at channeling, not expert at language.So, I started this thread to investigate channeling type phenomenon that I was running into during meditation and dream like trance states. I am starting to see this must not be jhana/formless realms?  According to traditional Buddhist teaching this would be an Imperfection of Insight, and also not Right Concentration.

Hmmm, or is this Fourth Foundation of Mindfulness?  Investigation and Mindfulness of Mental Objects, Mental Events...


Psi

You reminded me of something that happened when I was in college, I had all but forgotten about it!  I was mentally fried during one finals week with too many hours at my job and too many late nights finishing school work, plus a number of final exams already done.  I was almost done but I needed to finish an about 4 typed pages little essay thing, which normally would be easy to bang out.  Except my computer crapped out and would not work that night.  So I went over to my friends and was trying to use his crabby old confusing system.  And my brain just didn't want to work well since it was fried, plus he was intermittantly talking to me and I did not have enough self control to not talk to him, and my brain was all over the place. 

So I would type a few sentences, then ask him a question on how his word processing program worked, then talk a bit,etc.  Then somehow, at one point, I was talking to him AND typing sentences at the same time.  My fingers were flying too.  Finally, I realized what I was doing and stopped in shock.  I looked at what I had typed and surprisingly it was not the plather I had been consciously saying out loud but was in fact, all very good perfectly typed good quality essay material.  I did about one short paragraph's worth.  I had no conscious recollection of having formulated those sentences although they did fit with my general plan for the essay at the time.  Made me realize there are powers available to us that I had not conceived of and ironically it seems to have happened simply because my conscious mind was too fried out to get in the way.  Then once the conscious mind caught on, it made it stop.  I would not be at all surprised if this were a common skill that many if not all could do if the conscious mind were trained to get out of the way and shut the bleep up!  ;-P  But still I think it begs the ultimate question, beyond if it possible, let us say that yes it is, hypnosis seems to already show that, so assuming it can happen, what is the nature of the thing doing the action when the conscious mind is not looking?   

  Hmmm, This is a very good  insight, as long as you do not try to conceptualize it, to think it into being you, so to speak.
So, the facts, there was writing, there was what you normally identify as you , and you were talking, while the writing was taking place.
The writing occured due to an impersonal process, of the mind, what you normally identify as you, was not performing the writing function.  There was no thinker of the thoughts being written.  There were thoughts, there was writing, there was no you involved.

Yet, the fact of what happened was written in front of you.  To understand this, fully , might be a key to an awakening, as long as you do not conceptualize what happened or think around and around the phenomenon.

Maybe it is your koan, Who was writing? Who was talking?

Obviously I am not too good at pointing to what this actually means.  Anatta is so profound and fascinating, it can be scary , unnerving, and the Ego does not like it , not one bit...  Anatta is likened to a Twilight Zone reality,  except it is real, not a philosophy,  but to know it as real, and to not think it as philosophy, well, it is just mind boggling.

I have been reluctant to write this reply, yet feel compelled to, I am unsure as to the why, but it seems better said than unsaid.

And, it may be that you already got this.  You seem very wise.

Psi

And I am now wondering , is an inbetween really need for the mind to interact with itself, so to speak?  When thoughts seemingly come out of nowhere, as they often do, and sometimes in large chunks of paragraphs, etc, I have never really thought they were from another entity or anything.  And coem to think of it, at least lately, never really thought they were from a self, thoughts just arise.

Perhaps that is a benefit of insight, more of a direct knowledge of the mind, without adding more layers to the mess.

Then again, I could be wrong.  I am reluctant to create an HGA, because that is what it feels like one would be doing, it just seems delusionary.  But, maybe it is just a mental process, and to access different neuronal areas, one needs to create a thought formation bridge, a messenger, an angel, a go between, a thought go fer (gopher).

But again, it seems a direct access would be a better and saner path.

Psi

All this also seems close to Ken Wilber and Multiple Intelligences, or Consciousness.

http://ollisintegrallife.com/2011/01/17/multiple-intelligences-and-lines-of-development-an-introduction/


Which to me is also similar to Greek and Roman Mythology, i.e. the God or Goddess of Art, or Logic, or Love, or whatever.

The human mind seems to keep trying to lay out a map externally for what is going on internally, throughout history.

Psi

Maybe God, or Aliens are actually in the Brain




And interestingly, look at God in his shroud, then compare to brain image below, see the similarities?  Leonardo was a smarty pants... And an anatomist...


                                         

Not sure what the concern is that thinking something else is 'me.'  It's just a label either way.  Was the 5 year old me also me or am I now a different 'me' than I was back then?  Is that thing that wrote the paragraph me, part of me, or too different to be me, or is it the origin/creator or part of the origin/creator of the regular me?  What ever label gets slapped on, I guess the biggest danger is that any label tends to limit thought and filter perception, but other than that danger, I just don't see what the big deal is.   
Yup, that sums it up.  If anything, the concious me seemed rather a hindrance, once it was out of the way, the subconsious (gonna call it that because it's hard to discuss things without a label) was much more proficient.
If you mean one of the other stages past 4th path with 4th path just being 'stream entry' like the Tibetans apparently say, then I might agree with you.  I have suspicions that the conscious mind is often a limiter of ability with far great ability available if the conscious mind would allow it and/or get out of the way.  But then what is the point of more ability on Earth, to get more money, influence more people?  Is the conscious mind just an accidental epiphenomenon or is it there for a reason?  Like in Dungeons and Dragons, you roll the dice to get your various skill levels, the idea is to put challenge into the game by having both strengths AND weaknesses, not to just be good at everything.     
Or like I mentioned some other times, who drives the car when you are at the wheel but thinking of other things?
Well I have not been able to get a pin down on what the who that wrote the paragraph is, but as I mentioned, I think that who shows up often in daily life in less recognized ways.  Once i really started looking at it, the conscious mind is really quite a flimsy thing. 
Well i can see that the conscious mind awareness is really not the 'me' it thinks it is.  That conscious mind stuff seems to just show up on it's own.  What I don't see is how/why people know for sure there is no origin or creator or other part of me or whatever that happens beyond conscious me's perception.  From this end, what I see is that stuff just shows up, but the conscious me is also very limited and weak in perceptive skills.  Seems a bit of a jump to assume that just because hte conscious me doesn't perceive something that it doesn't exist.  Maybe I lean a bit more towards the hindu in that area.
-Eva   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2VzhyIyGkA

Didn't see a link to the above video which is a related Ted talk.

My own personal experience, I have witnessed an oracle/medium/channeller myself on several occasions and have heard of others in Thailand and other areas in South East Asia.
This oracle/medium supposedly channels the Second Lord of the Lord of the Three Mountains (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lords_of_the_Three_Mountains)

Prior to undergoing trance for the chanelller, they wear traditional clothes similar to the Nechung oracle but in this instance they only wear colorful/traditional pants. The channeller will then place both hands on the table as he is seated and then have his head facing down at an angle and shake his head left and right vigorously whilst blowing air out of his mouth.
He does this for, 30seconds - 1 minute and then once the transition is over, he sits up and his facial features are held differently prior to when he was not in trance. One eye is squinted and the voice of the person is much different etc. The first time we consulted with this deity he cut open his tongue with a sharp knife, as well as the sides of his lips and showed us the blood dripping and then closed his mouth and in the next instance, stopped the bleeding and the cuts were no longer present. Not sure what the significance of that was, but perhaps to show he was the real deal.

This post could go for too long so I'll keep it as short as possible and will be happy to reply to any further questions. Essentially when the deity is in the channeller, whoever is consulting him can ask whatever question they wish and the deity will provide advice. This can be for jobs, business, relationships, moving houses etc. The deity is also able to easily 'cold read' people and has on many occassions detailed characteristics/personality traits that people exhibit in their life towards themselves, or others accurately.

He has predicted events/ocassions that will occur and when asked for guidance has stated he will aid/help in the desired event. Such as people finding jobs and how they will find the job (help from a distant colleague, support from outsiders etc) as well as the timing of when houses would be sold and so forth. 

He also undergoes ritualistic things such as blessing amulets (like QuanYin amulets and other deities), writes on and blesses yellow paper (not sure what this is called in English) that is to be carried in red packets for the receivers. When he is asked some questions, he will undergo counting of his hands (sorry there's a word for this in English but I just can't recall it atm). Essentially he takes his thumb and touches his other fingers, as if he is calculating the future. 

I firmly believe this guy is the real deal as my family has consulted with him (3 or 4 times) over a span of several years now and whatever he has said has mostly come true and also his 'cold reads' of people are just spot on. Another interesting thing he performed, I wasn't present at this consultation but apparently a family member had a ghost or something arather attached to him, so the deity 'ate' him and got rid of it for him. This family member had a lot of trouble for a while with sleeping, energy levels etc and was fine after this consultation/removal of the ghost. 

My father said he's cousin was also an oracle before retiring from the duties. This cousin could not write Chinese whatsoever, but under trance he could write fluently. He was also stated to be able to do amazing physical feats such as jumping up and down roofs etc.

These types of oracles are quite well known in Chinese (Mahayana?) Buddhism and if you dig deep enough on the Asian websites you will find a lot of videos of them. They say when they are under the trance, it's as if they are sleeping or just knocked out. They have no awareness of what's happening during the channelling and once they come out, it's like they just woke up. The process can be rather tiring and drain the channeler's energy levels afterwards. There's a ton of deities that can be channeleed including Quan Yin, Monkey King, and all the other normal deities worshipped in Mahayana temples

Cool! There is a lot of channeling/possesion/invokation going on in Theravada too. I wonder if the buddhist traditions have anything resembling the HGA though. Yidams/ishtadevata or Buddha nature maybe?

Yes, guru yoga in Vajrayana. It's the core of the practice.

Gedanken, Thank you so much, I just finished the video ou provided.  This is all very interesting, I would say that , yes, this is definitley linked to a trance like state of consciousness, kind of an in between state, a receptive yet also, transmissive state.  I am beginning to see that some of what I have been experiencing over my lifetime is not just a daydreamy state, but something more, and something more than just imagination.

And thanks for bringing in your own personal experiences with all this, makes it real.  

Phenomenon happens.

Psi

I think this also falls under the Fourth Foundation of Mindfulness, the Investigation of Mental Content.  But, one has to have the mind very still and in a state of non interference with phenomenon in order to percieve the phenomenon.  Currently , I am very Novice at any of this, this is not part of my intentional practice at this point,  All, I can say is that this phenomenon does seem to exist, but what it is or how it transmits , I could only guess.

What about the Theravada schools though? 

As far as I know, Theravada doesn't officially have that sort of practice, but unoficially, Theravada countries have a lot of shamanism and folk magic mixed in with Buddhist meditative practices. Who knows what that includes?

In terms of common Theravada practices, the closest thing I can think of is Buddha nussati meditation, which is meditation on the Buddha's qualities. There's no merging with a spirit in that practice.

That's true, didn't think about that one!