Peculiar insight

Darrell, modified 8 Years ago at 8/30/15 7:12 PM
Created 8 Years ago at 8/30/15 7:12 PM

Peculiar insight

Posts: 143 Join Date: 2/22/15 Recent Posts
Maybe it's not an insight, I don't know.

while sitting one morning, earlier this week, fear/anxiety appeared. And when it did, it was perfectly clear that feelings feel themselves. While this may be readily understood, I am at a loss to explain what was seen/experienced. The sense of feeling seemed inherent to the fear/anxiety. The sensation was observed, but there wasn't any feeling/sensation at the point the observation occured. Even that's quite right.

I simply saw that feelings feel themselves, and it happens within and because of the feelings and no where else.

Can anyone comment on this? Has anyone had experience that parrallels this, or might be the same thing even if you used different language to label the experience?
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katy steger,thru11615 with thanks, modified 8 Years ago at 8/31/15 4:21 AM
Created 8 Years ago at 8/31/15 3:52 AM

RE: Peculiar insight

Posts: 1740 Join Date: 10/1/11 Recent Posts
Can anyone comment on this? Has anyone had experience that parrallels this, or might be the same thing even if you used different language to label the experience?

Hi Darrell, 

For me this is a kind of non-attachment and seeing things as they are. Another way I'd put this experience is the mind is not consumed by one of its events.

Similarly, if one had a new coveted gadget in the hand and went out for a walk -- or a new stellar vehicle -- at first there'd be maybe this feeling of just consuming mental spotlight (attention) joining to the new gagdet or new car. A person might walk with a lift in their step, mind consumed by: I am (holding) New Gadget! I am (in) New Car! That's being consumed mentally by (attached to) something that one enjoys to the point of a grasped/consuming attention/identification. And the same can be for a "negative" condition: One has a huge pimple on the face or clothes that are not new, old sneakers and walks around consumed by: I am (in) Shabbiness, I am Blemished.

Versus seeing things as they are: having new gadget that will be outdated and old soon; having blemish that will pass, being "shabby" in one milieu, dressed fine in another.

And fear is like this, too. I remember disturbing a bear once (well, more than once and more than one such animal, but this is one moment). No thought. Some moments later I just knew, "I'm on the ground curled up." After a "long while" (<15 minutes) of scooching and freezing, scooching and freezing, I made my exit --- then I noticed shaky legs, then I was afraid.  Similarly (a non-bear moment another time...), I grabbed the wrong fuel (uh-oh) once to light a burn barrel. I was spitting out dirt when I realized my body had jumped without me four feet away with the gas blast. The jumping, the spitting out dirt: reactions, no fear. After: yes, now I had fear, "Gee, that was idiotic and I'm lucky," (which has converted to seeing fuels waaaay more clearly for what they are now, as in mindfully identifying 'here's the red-colored carrier for x-fuel' and 'here's the z-colored carrier for z-fuel'). 

So in my opinion your mind did not get consumed by one of its own reference objects and saw things as they were. 


I think of the mind as a short boat that's spun easily the open water of its own waves (a mind being consumed and spun/buffetted by its own objects (feelings, thoughts, conceptions).
As attention to the mind extends, it is like the boat grows in length and a long boat is harder to spin/buffet than a short one.  
Plus, in truly hard conditions one can learn how to add ballast to that boat -- not easy -- so that when there are deeply jarring events, the mind still has the supports to not be spun: training, development (bhavana in meditation training specifically), study, practice habits for any activity.

Edit: So I'm thinking, too, of people with lots of experience and/or time/age and therefore apparent skill in something: Sometimes they are just not so reactive (spinning) with everything that happens in their areas of minds; they have "long boat minds" to observe, not so easily spun; they kind of know when to jump quickly on something and when not to. Skill.

(In the bear example, I had mentally rehearsed what to do in such an encounter for years before and seen other friends bite injuries (they taught it's not "if you run into a brown bear one day, it's when") and I had read Stephen Herrera's book closely on the statistics of bear attacks in North America, so my body did what it had learned and rehearsed mentally for about two years pior: call a lot in the woods, and even still, if I make an encounter and the encounter fits x-conditions (surprising a bear with young, food) drop, play dead, get away very graduallyl I'm not usually so smart =).   (these are not instructions to anyone =] in such an event...I haven't met with bears in many years and no longer live in a brown&black bear overlap zone...)


Best wishes
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tom moylan, modified 8 Years ago at 8/31/15 4:51 AM
Created 8 Years ago at 8/31/15 4:51 AM

RE: Peculiar insight

Posts: 896 Join Date: 3/7/11 Recent Posts
howdy,
you are seeing things the way they are.  not including the "self" reference in arisings.  that is a great insight and you should keep at it until that bad habit is broken.

objects arise and have in them aspects of "knowing" and "sensation".  we add the "self" or identification aspect as if this "self" is required..which it aint.
Darrell, modified 8 Years ago at 9/13/15 9:13 PM
Created 8 Years ago at 9/13/15 9:13 PM

RE: Peculiar insight

Posts: 143 Join Date: 2/22/15 Recent Posts
Hi Katy,

Sorry for such a late reply, right after I posted this, I went out of state to search for a new residence, then have been consumed with preparations for moving, then everyone in the house had to get sick. It has been great. But it gave me time to reflect on this. I agree with what you've written, and particularly enjoyed the idea of a "long boat mind", especially as it puts a new spin on the old Cat Stevens song ("Longer boats are coming to win us, coming to win us...")

Ultimately, I've had to conclude that Tom nailed the essence of it, it really comes down to having the experience as devoid of self. It's not me, it's not mine, I don't own it, can't control it, can't bring it into being or destroy it. But what was most amazing, instructive and revelatory was that the feeling, and appears true of all feeling, is that the feeling happens within the feeling itself. Anything experienced in the body or mind is a secondary product, it's *not actually the feeling itself* which means that the sensation of fear happens somewhere NOT HERE, wherever that is.
Darrell, modified 8 Years ago at 9/13/15 9:14 PM
Created 8 Years ago at 9/13/15 9:14 PM

RE: Peculiar insight

Posts: 143 Join Date: 2/22/15 Recent Posts
Tom,

Can you suggest how I keep at it until the habit is broken? I've tried re-creating this in meditation, and thus far, have not been able to reproduce it.

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