One year ago I read MTCB and started practicig, but quit pretty soon as I lost my motivation due to having too high expectations and not being able to see any progres.

Yesterday I just came back from a S.N. Goenka retreat which was a pleasant experience ( 3 days of Anapana and 6 of body scanning while equanimously observing the sensastions). I decided to read some chapters from MTCB about Concentration and Insight and fould out that the techniques I have learned there are very different that what I have read on this forum.

Came back highly motivate to go on this path, and as I work as a freelancer I can put a lot of time in my practice. I'm feeling a bit confused tough, as there is so much information here, I don't even know where to start. What would you recomment me to do ? Start with Concentration practices for a while and only after go for Insight as well ? When doing Concentration, should I pick only one type of practice or do more at once ?

Also, not being able to see imediate progress makes me keep wandering weather my technique is good.

Cheers
C

Hi Cristian,

My experience is that you need a bit of concentration to do insight practices well, otherwise, you end up spacing out and thinking about work or your next meal. I actually think it makes the most sense to develop the two in tandem, starting a meditation session with maybe 10 minutes of concentration practice, maybe anapana with focus on the breath either at the nose or abdomen, followed by vipassana for the rest of the sitting, returning to concentration if you find your attention wandering. Though there has been some debate about this here on DhO, noting style practice works well for me. I particularly like Shinzen Young's Basic Vipassana system, since it leaves nothing to the imagination ("what was that sensation? a twinge? a tweak?"). The categories he uses basically cover all types of internal and external sensations so you are never left with having to figure out at a cognitive level what to call a sensation. However, really any style of noting practice will do, many folks here also like Mahasi style noting.

The most important thing however is to set up a regular daily practice in a place where you are unlikely to be disturbed, put your cell phone on "Airplane Mode" if you are using it as a timer (or turn it off), and sit. A half hour to forty minutes does it for me. Longer is usually better, but daily life typically limits what you can do. Recently I've been sitting forty minutes twice a day, with a minimum of 30 minutes once a day if I have other stuff I need to do.

Hope that helps.

Hi Cristian,

Welcome! I agree with svmonk's tips. Here is my mini roadmap for someone who has completed a Goenka retreat and wants to expand a little bit:

1) Keep practicing anapanasati and U Ba Khin / Goenka body scanning, as svmonk suggested.

2) In the meantime, read MCTB. Also read the first public draft of MCTB2, part I.

3) To boost your vipassana, try the exercises in MCTB2. If you like those exercises and they seem to work for you, you may want to switch to Mahasi noting. Probably most people here on DhO consider it more effective than body scanning. Come back on the forum for more info if needed.

4) To boost your samadhi, have a look at these brief and crystal clear instructions on how to enter first jhana by Leigh Brasington:
http://www.leighb.com/jhana3.htm
so if you start having pleasant sensations while doing anapanasati, you know what to do with them ;) 

This should keep you busy for some time! Have fun  

Thank you very much guys,

I will be following your advise and split my practice into anapana and body scanning until I develop better concentration. In the mean time I will re-read MCTB and the first public draft of MTCB2. After my concentration gets better, I finish the books and have a better understanding of the noting technique I will stop doing the body scanning and switch to noting.

Cheers
C

My 2cents, what worked for me:  I didn't know about anything, just went on a Goenka retreat for some random reason, all I had was body scanning.  And yet I somehow learned to sit for an hour without effort, probably crossed A&P.  That gave me the impetous to *sit 2 hours* a day, and that was a crucial link in my journey.

My point is only this, that body scanning, pursued vigorously and ignorantly was good enough to 'get on the ride'.  That said, I shifted to a more dynamic approach after a few months of Goenka at home, and *that* was an important shift for me also.

If you've really tried and body scanning was not enough to put you on the roller coaster, then by all means change your game.  But if after thinking about it, you have not really used body scanning as hard as you can, then just know that it was a good start for me.  I really like the common advise, that changing things too often leads to lack of progress.  Only you can decide what's too often.

Hi Matthew,

I am also happy that I learned to sit pretty easily for an hour with a really straight back.

While doing anapana at the retreat I remember there were a few moments when I got to access concentration but I didn't know how to preceed from there on, as our teacher kept telling us to stay as equanimous as posible and not to get attached to the pleasant sensations nor create aversion towards the unpleasant ones. So I didn't go for the absorption.

As for the body scanning part, I didn't get that free flow they were talking about. Don't know if my technique was wrong or that I didn't have enough concentration. I could fell sensations throughout the body but in some areas they were so sublte, I could barely fell them. I got that flow in just a few body parts and I managed to disolve a lot of tension/pressure/pain points.

Now that I am back home it feels like the sensations are even more subtle and I have more blind areas. Also I didn't manage to get to access concentration yet ( toughts like "here it comes" or " I'm getting there" arise when I get there and that makes it go away ).

Do you think it would be better to do just anapana for 2 hours/day while reading the material the other guys suggested and then go for the noting method, or should I try a bit more with the body scanning ?

Cheers
C

I agree with Matthew's suggestion.

In my own experience, Goenka's instructions works well to get you into the DN (nanas 6-10 in MCTB ), but less so to work your way out of it into EQ (nana 11) and from there to SE (nanas 12-16). So keep giving it a fair trial and see if you can get into A&P and from there into Dissolution. Maps-wise, probably no need to make any change to your technique until you get into the part of practice that sucks.

The only change you could make at once to your current practice is reading Leigh Brasington's advice on jhana (linked above). Don't try too hard to get into jhana or get frustrated if it doesn't work, but if you do get pleasurable sensations (as you seem to hint) then definitely give that a shot too.

Addendum

The crucial part: your experience, in the process of your actual sitting practice is your most important guide.  Spent time trying to understand what people are saying here, but when you sit, give 99% of your attention to sittting sensations, and trust that what you are seeing is your best little sub-path forward for the moment.  The way you see it will always be different than what you think someone was trying to explain, but still you have to recognize in that moment, that's where your attention will lead you forward.  This is one way that the skill of faith comes in, trust that you did hear what you needed to hear from others, and that you can go ahead and get there even though don't really know what you're doing.   Eventually, I went completely off the goenka rail, and that was the best thing.

addendum: you mentioned that excitement at the apparent onset of access concentration chases AC away.  Yes, that happens. Thats where repetitive experience comes in.... sooner or later that experience of onset won't be exciting.  In the meantime, if you have sensations of excitement, go ahead and investigate the sensations of excitement and see where that leads  OR note 'excitement' and get back to what you were on before the excitement came on.  The step of noting 'excitement' is all the 'thinking' you have to do.

Last time I practiced concentration, at some point, all the sounds started to get dimmer and I lost sense of my breath. It felt like AC but as soon as I got there the experience started to really suck, as I started sweating, the pulse rised and I felt very unpleasant sensations. I tried to stay there but it got so intense, I felt like I had to get out.

Was this a raputre , or did I just panic ? If I ever encounter something similar, should I try to stay there and observe / note the sensations ?

Thanks

Cristian,

I've had perhaps similar sensations.  First I allowed those experiences to drive me off the cushion, literally shake it off a few times.  I'd suggest keeping that option open.

Eventually I endeavoured to allow myself to observe the sensations without prejudice, and then, fully seen, the sensations lost their power to distress me, and finally stopped happening.  Finding this link http://www.shinzen.org/Articles/artIcky.htm was helpful for me, it may or may not apply to you.

There's a process I learned, it applied equally well to that those awful feelings, and simple intense itching on the face.  Somehow I find where I'm resisting the phenomena and I stop the resistance, allow myself to look with some combination of curiosity, compassion and dis-passion at the feelings, and the result was at time quite dramatic and helpful.

It is quite possible, perhaps likely that our experience does not truly overlap, you have to keep that in mind. :-|

Perhaps others here have more to say.

It sounds like you're clearly 'in the game' concentration wise.  Supposedly there are many many sensations/experiences that can happen when your concentration and energy are both coming online. I've had some, and heard of some freaky experiences.  Don't forget, it's all just sensate experience, it does not necessary mean anything but the normal rattling around that happens at this phase.

Thanks Matthew,

The article seems to describe my experience pretty acurately.

Two-three days after starting to do Vipassana at the retreat I told the teacher about how it takes me at least an hour to fall asleep ( it's been like that for the past years ) and he suggested that I observe the body sensations when going to bed, so I fell asleep doing that ( in less than 20 minutes ). At some point in the night I woke up feeling very pleasant sensations throughout my body for minutes. Could meditation go on during sleep ? Could that be A&P ?

Should I post those two in "Dharma Diagnostic Clinic, aka " What was that?""

You're welcome.I see you did the other post, good, you'll get more feedback.

Everything you've said feel familiar to me, it seems like you're moving along.  You know, mapping yourself (knowing exactly what stage you are experiencing) may or may not be helpful at different times.  It all boils down to, what gives you confidence to continue practicing, and what helps you to use your energy and concentration well when actually sitting.

I was into the maps cause I had nothing else to go by, but then, approximately, I found this: http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/1973107

That and personal conversations with good teachers that I met through DhO were what moved me along quickly.