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Stream Entry - What does it feel like?

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Stream Entry - What does it feel like? MangaDesuYo 10/2/15 5:57 AM
RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like? Derek 10/3/15 11:08 AM
RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like? MangaDesuYo 10/4/15 5:34 AM
RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like? Banned For waht? 10/4/15 6:15 AM
RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like? MangaDesuYo 10/4/15 7:00 AM
RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like? Banned For waht? 10/4/15 8:27 AM
RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like? katy steger,thru11.6.15 with thanks 10/4/15 2:10 PM
RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like? Psi 10/4/15 5:30 PM
RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like? katy steger,thru11.6.15 with thanks 10/4/15 6:39 PM
RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like? MangaDesuYo 10/5/15 4:13 AM
RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like? katy steger,thru11.6.15 with thanks 10/5/15 9:45 AM
RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like? Stuie Charles Law 10/9/15 5:31 PM
RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like? katy steger,thru11.6.15 with thanks 10/10/15 6:31 PM
RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like? svmonk 10/8/15 11:01 PM
RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like? Noah 10/9/15 2:09 AM
RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like? katy steger,thru11.6.15 with thanks 10/9/15 8:31 AM
RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like? neko 10/6/15 3:11 AM
RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like? Eva Nie 10/7/15 11:15 PM
RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like? Noah 10/4/15 10:13 AM
RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like? neko 10/6/15 3:33 AM
RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like? gadrabha 4/16/16 1:38 PM
RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like? Jorge 8/8/17 2:40 PM
What does it feel like to have attained stream entry without knowing anything about buddhism and the models/maps?

In every aspects..

RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like?
Answer
10/3/15 11:08 AM as a reply to MangaDesuYo.
If you read the accounts on this board, you'll see that those who practice in the "noting" tradition have a great deal of similarity in their progress.

However, once you get outside this tradition, you find much more individual variation. At one point, I read as many of these stories as I could find on the Internet. I never collected them all together or analyzed them, though.

FWIW, my own story is in chapter 13 of The Slacker’s Guide to Stream-Entry. Links to that book are here: http://stream-entry.ca

RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like?
Answer
10/4/15 5:34 AM as a reply to Derek.
Thanks for sharing!

What I noticed is that many who pick up the noting practice read a lot about the models and paths, and are writing walls of text about their beliefs, practice, experiences, what they think about certain things...

that's why I am curious what it is to have attained stream entry without having read a single buddhist text and knowing completely nothing about the subject, and just picking up a practice as introduced and practicing it all the way to stream entry...

Yet I am surprised of no answers yet...

RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like?
Answer
10/4/15 6:15 AM as a reply to MangaDesuYo.
streamentry is a fruit. Take it as a point or level in a cirlce, once the entire circle is completed you start another one again.
4 points to complete a circle. Then figure how to start another one.

Can't replicate anything what isn't by the rules. So the system is same in everywhere. Male and female energies playing. You get a seed and grow it to the point it can play..

RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like?
Answer
10/4/15 7:00 AM as a reply to Banned For waht?.
So it's not like the way you feel, perspective, way of thinking, mind set... suffering gets extremely reduced? or anything else changes in an extreme way?

RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like?
Answer
10/4/15 8:27 AM as a reply to MangaDesuYo.
You can be long time conditioned by some sort of desire(also wrong thinking), once you see it and do a definite decision to end it and after you succeed you are not attached to that thinking anymore. Then you will move to the next obstacle, first the issue is not even seen, stepping on the same rake over and over again, thats imho is the meaning of fetter.
Yeah there is changes in everything. Like going from teenager to mature back to Infant then to teenager. You will gain power and understanding and then back to no idea what to do.

generalize that above into a general idea what path is and what path moment is. Path moment is when you don't fall back to a previous point in current circle.

RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like?
Answer
10/4/15 2:10 PM as a reply to MangaDesuYo.
MangaDesuYo:
So it's not like the way you feel, perspective, way of thinking, mind set... suffering gets extremely reduced? or anything else changes in an extreme way?


To me, there is a mental shift and that is followed by a lot of/ a period of "Wow". There is insight into one's own mind and causality-- it may be a verbalized experience in the midst of noting or it may be in a non-verbal, conceptual-and-nonconceptual context.

1) Either way, in calming down and just observing, there's witnessing own mind's production of thoughts and feeling like bubbles arising from the seafloor conditions

credit: http://peakwatch.typepad.com/decline_of_the_empire/2010/02/methane-hydrates.html


2) Feeling the tendancy to hook onto these bubbles for gratification (even the fear-based mental bubbles (narratives) as much as the arousing ones):


3) Noting can be a means of realizing the bubbles-turned-hook gratification by the practice of noting as many parts of the arising and passing bubbles/hooks as one is generating them (there is always that milli-moment lag of creation-realization, which is helpful to witness, too)

Credit: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Fishhook.jpg


4) Consequently, there's knowing "I am pushing/wanting/fostering the origin of the gratifying bubbles, pushing them to arise in thought and/or actuality order to to obtain them again and again...

Credit: Puck Magazine, May 22, 1901 via Wikipedia


5) ...and looking for ways to secure 'permanency' in the gratifying bubbles-turned-gratification-hooks (through wealth/status/roles accrual, through definitive-controlling-final acts, including ideogies)



credit: Bruce Mackinnon submission to "The oceans are in our hands" Niels Bugge Cartoon-Award



6) Even a fancy special mystical "mind itself" hook, so beautiful and special mind/consciousness (it is a marvel, why waste it in cruel, destroying actions when so much wonder can be created/discovered in it? Who knows its origins and limits? Who would claim to know this?):

Credit: New York Times, http://i2.nyt.com/images/2015/09/02/science/sos_final/sos_final-jumbo.jpg





___________stream entry above____________

___________repeating practice below________




7) Again and again in practice one can see mentation arising and body fostering the gratifying bubbles, rendering wonderful bubbles into painful needy hooks snagging 'own beingness'-- forming own quality and forms and way of life, shaping conditions in the environment around oneself.

credit: shapingyouth.org


8) Realizing this continuously bubble-blowing-natural-mind, like the heart, beats automatically as arising/passing in conditions:

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-NtK0_humGws/VGN25MqdDYI/AAAAAAAAAFw/C8IVP-pOhqc/s320/14.PNG

(Who knows why this automaticity? Who needs to assert a why against anyone else's why? What is that hook of self-righteousness delivering to the body-mind in gratification?)



9) Realizing one hooks oneself in own willful conduct in addition to being hooked by/hooking others:


https://upload.wikimedia.org/
wikipedia/commons/d/d9/
NPS_map_symbol_fishing.svg




10) Just realizing one can blow bubbles in a way that reduces harm, usings mind bubbles as bubbbles, not hooks:


http://www.bvrdeco.nl/images/slideshows/ballondecoraties/special-effects/special-effects-bellen-blazen-ben-van-roden-1.jpg


http://intoreexpeditions.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/bkg-boy-blowing-bubbles-300x201.jpg



RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like?
Answer
10/4/15 10:13 AM as a reply to MangaDesuYo.
MangaDesuYo:

What I noticed is that many who pick up the noting practice read a lot about the models and paths, and are writing walls of text about their beliefs, practice, experiences, what they think about certain things...


I am part of this group, shamelessly.  But, to the defense of this route, the stream entry moment was really unexpected.  It felt like someone blew a hole in my head, psychically.  It almost felt like the first time I smoke marijuana, and then looked at myself in the mirror, and then smiled, and all the while, the experience was incredibly real, but somehow I wasn't there.  Stream entry felt like a type of euphoria I hadn't ever really experienced before.  There was an almost physically embodied knowing after that, like a new shadow had begun to follow me around.  Or like some utterance was always on the tip of my tongue.

RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like?
Answer
10/4/15 5:30 PM as a reply to katy steger,thru11.6.15 with thanks.
katy steger

"Wow". 

* +2  *

Psi

RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like?
Answer
10/4/15 6:39 PM as a reply to Psi.
=D 

Thank you.

RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like?
Answer
10/5/15 4:13 AM as a reply to katy steger,thru11.6.15 with thanks.
Hahaha, this actually made me laugh! nice way of explaining!

RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like?
Answer
10/5/15 9:45 AM as a reply to MangaDesuYo.
The ten stages of bubbles... with Don Ho singing "Tiny Bubbles" if you like =]
_________
Edit: [removed, already noted elsewhere =]

RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like?
Answer
10/6/15 3:33 AM as a reply to MangaDesuYo.
A slightly more detached relationship to my moods. A slightly improved ability of making good use of the negative ones.

Seeing thoughts and personality and ideas and ideals and politics as accidents and objects - not as things to be identified with and owned by.

However, back to your main question: everything was subtle. Had I not known about the maps, I would have seen this all as part of growing up. Kind of like graduating from adolescence a second time. I would have seen no relationship with that "blip".

Then this settled as the new normal and I can only notice these things, which are definitely still here, in retrospect.

A big deal? Kind of.

A huge deal, with fireworks and trumpeting cherubs? No way, no.

RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like?
Answer
10/6/15 3:11 AM as a reply to MangaDesuYo.
MangaDesuYo:
So it's not like the way you feel, perspective, way of thinking, mind set... suffering gets extremely reduced? or anything else changes in an extreme way?

Nothing of the kind. Not for me. Not what I call my SE at the moment. 

RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like?
Answer
10/7/15 11:15 PM as a reply to neko.

MangaDesuYo:
So it's not like the way you feel, perspective, way of thinking, mind set... suffering gets extremely reduced? or anything else changes in an extreme way?
I  think although the various stages will  help you some, issues will get easier to work on after each stage, but most of the work is still going to get done by the conscious you, you will need to get most of the way yourself and then when you get close, you will get a bit of a leap forward but then after that, you will still have tons of work to do yourself.  Your problems and/or emotional harrassments will not get dramatically wisked away by the various attainments.  ;-P  (too bad, would be nice if they did!)  You will need to get that groundwork mostly already sorted out before the attainments will come in the first place (IMO).
-Eva


RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like?
Answer
10/8/15 11:01 PM as a reply to katy steger,thru11.6.15 with thanks.
Cool, katy! Hope you don't disappear. emoticon

RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like?
Answer
10/9/15 2:09 AM as a reply to svmonk.
Cool, katy! Hope you don't disappear. emoticon


Yeah, second.

RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like?
Answer
10/9/15 8:31 AM as a reply to svmonk.
svmonk, noah-- thanks much emoticon 

I have a domain name, same as my name, that I will end up using next year for a new field of study about which I'm keen and grateful to have the skills developed here because Daniel set up this site, because of our peer practice and mutual sharing/debate of differences and similarities, and the inspiration to retreat-practice over the years and learn about other's experiences here. Really, I am puuullllling myself away from this great, lovely bubble. I absolutely love theses ontological practices on this sight being tested by investigators and feel my day starts in it and ends in the practice now despite the nuttiness and stressors, the madeness going on in parts of our global communities -- par for the course of existence. I am still reading some threads as an evening/a.m. coffee treat =)

Anyway, I know I need a year or two of focused learning and practicing in the new fields in addition to time for work. 

(I have to update my name here now to reflect today's date).

<bow and smile>
Gratitude

RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like?
Answer
10/9/15 5:31 PM as a reply to katy steger,thru11.6.15 with thanks.
katy,  thankyou so very much.  I've followed your postings for a few years now and have gained good, constructive, practical assistance and great enjoyment in oh so many ways.  Most grateful for your participation here on this forum.  Thank you for your comfort, joy and wisdom. 

<bow and smile>

Gratitude back at you

Stuie.

RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like?
Answer
10/10/15 6:31 PM as a reply to Stuie Charles Law.
Stuie,
I am close to speechless that I've written things of practical value to you.  Your practice thread is epic. Your practice is determined and admirable. If you teach one day, it would be apt.


I admire so many practice threads here. Thank you very, very much your feedback to me. You inspire.

__________________
Geneally, to anyone, here are two op eds on meditation and what we believe about ourselves and others, including a mention from Willoughby Britton who participated in the forum a few years ago:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/10/opinion/can-we-end-the-meditation-madness.html?ribbon-ad-idx=3&src=me&module=Ribbon&version=origin&region=Header&action=click&contentCollection=Most%20Emailed&pgtype=article, perhaps a reminder to not let meditation reinforce/create pathologized identity or create needless hurdles/hardships when simpler tools could do for some desired outcomes, and

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/11/opinion/sunday/the-asian-advantage.html?action=click&contentCollection=Asia%20Pacific&module=MostPopularFB&version=Full&region=Marginalia&src=me&pgtype=article, a reminder of personal effort as well as society imposed beliefs effecting other's development. 

As we humans live closer and closer together, more abundantly and more influentially/impactfully, I find these articles keep useful ideas at the fore.

For myself, meditation has shown me basically mind can produce tons of thoughts and feelings (intellect and emotion: aka: "mental phenomena", i.e., "bubbles" upthread) and those mental phenomena that result in compelling physical sensations get the repeating attention/can be most 'hooking' if there's not an ability to step back and just know the bubbly-up nature of mind (feelings, thoughts) which instinctual mentation works in conjunction with the body to repeat compelling physical sensations over and over again (i.e., "hooks" upthread)--> forming a life, a lifestyle, views, identify which toggle in support of the mind-for-sensations actioning again and again. Seeing that toggling of mind and body for the instinctual purpose of achieving sensate gratifications and not being ruled by that instinctual toggling is, by whatever means, mediation or not, valuable, imo.

RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like?
Answer
4/16/16 1:38 PM as a reply to MangaDesuYo.
It feels the same, but you just have no idea what has happened.

Eckhart Tolle is one famous example of these people.

One word to describe how it feels: "Alive". There are quicker ways to stream entry than noting practice (great practice nevertheless, before and after stream entry). I'd say the quickest is "direct pointing".

RE: Stream Entry - What does it feel like?
Answer
8/8/17 2:40 PM as a reply to gadrabha.
what do you mean by direct pointing?