first i do trataka(cadnle staring),then metta and also thinking about imparmanence of all phenomena ,then i just get view like inside my body,very happy, breath was realy clear ,my thoughts went slow and my alarm clock turn on, if i stay more longer i could sware it would take somewhere deeper ,maybe you know what was that and where it could lead me

Hi, Mathew,

Starting to feel happy sounds like the jhana factors are beginning to assemble. But I'm not a jhana expert, so you'd be best advised to consult a teacher who is.

a thanks, i have achieved Jhanas before but on concentration, i know im dumb ,i drinked , get deppresed , i loosed even my access concentration skills now im struggling to get back , so now i try first half hour Metta then half hour Mahasi noticing with involving Three Charasteristic ,so in one point i feel hoppeless idiot who loosed access concentration,but on other hand i get into Metta(now its kinda at low level) and Vippassana and better knowing more Three Charasteristics ,which i never knew.Did anyone of you Dharma Overgrounders happened  that you lost your Concentration skills ?What did you do to regain it ?Should i continue if it dont work anymore ?Obvious I can start again but my concentration seems to be dull/boring and my concentration object(wich is Buddha statue)seems to not attrackt my attention anymore.
Feel realy grateful for any comments ,thanks .
P.S.I would fight a lion with my bare hands to get back my skills on Concentration(realy  ofcourse i wouldnt want to hurt animal and in case he dont seem to have to do anything with my concentration skills).If someone interested i did get Jhanas in few weeks of practise (bassicaly i started meditating right away for 3 hours a day bruttaly sitting i didnt care about pain in my knees ,hunger etc. so everything was awesome ).

howdy MP,
it is very common that we are more concentrated at some times than others.  it has been the case with me that i have less skill in concentration for long periods of time after previously having razor sharp concentrations and good jhana.  these things are inherently in flux and wanting to hold on to them won't help. 

if you are going through the progress of insight there will be phases of stability and phases of chaos but its important to remember that wherever you are RIGHT NOW is the only place you can start from.  looking back on past achievements is only helpful as encouragement or to recollect the actual signs of that success.  note that both of these are positive  and do not support the hindrance of doubt.  doubt is a 'waffeling' kind of mind state which prevents us from being decisive and discriminative and keeps us chattering where we are.

you seem to want concentration.  so make a commitment to exactly that and know that everyone gets dumb, depressed, drinks etc.  try to leave that all aside when you practice as it is an unhelpful distraction and that is exactly what you don't want when practicing concentration.

there are different objects of concentration and different methods.  tell us what you did previously to get concentrated and perhaps people can chime in with their suggestions.

peace

tom

thanks for help, i read Samdhong rinpoche -buddhist meditation,i did visualization with buddha statue in my mind with open eyes 3 hours a day, i often got theese feeling of ecstasy or hapinness that i never imagined its possible,and just one day it didnt seems to work anymore , i couldnt hold my attention even for one sec,i was schocked and then began to feel  deppresed,drinked (yeah not the best way of solving problems )get more deppresed ,stopped doing Concentration..Should i just still do Concentration even if it mechanical or boring /dull ?
P.S. i hope these Vippassana and Metta meditations nad investingating /thinking about 3c gonna help me rocover my precious Jhanas ,my precioussssss my preciousssssss

hi mathew,
have you yet read MCTB? if not, it provides lots of details about practice and goals and models and what is good to focus upon when.  it is a valuable read.  during the progress of insight the stages after the A&P (ecstatic, otherworldly, magical, mindblowing)  are described with many of the charachteristics you mention.

my personal take to your question of whether to continue with concentration even if it is dull etc. is qualified.  we all know that certain things bring us pleasure and we want more of those things.  so we do whatever it takes to get that stuff.  if we only focus on that goal it is unlikely that we will make major breakthroughs on the path to ending our general sense of dissatisfaction.  for that goal we need insight / vipassana.  so choose your goal.

on the practical side, if you really want that concentration back, joy is a major factor for accomplishing that and boredom etc. is not a helpful factor.  the stragegic possibilities look something like this depending on your makup, capabilities and desires.  1- try to force a breakthrough by fiercely and continually staying with the object of concentration until this opens up the breadth of mind to again awaken your interest and joy. 2 - do concentration on the brama viharas ( metta, 3 jewels, equanimity etc.) which tend to be joyous in and of themselves.  3 - Accept where you (possibly) are and continue doing vipassana practice until you get through the unsettled watrers and reach equanimity.  if you have not experienced the bliss and joy available at this stage you have some very pleasant territory to look forward to.  and of course, the pleasantness is the trap. 

tom

thanks again for help Tom ,Im going to study MTCB ,maybe im going to turn on to Insight practises,i find it more "alive" then just siting and focusing on object,ofcourse its kinda difficult/interesting to know 3 c ,can you lend my a tip how to do Insight with involving 3 c ?

I would invite you to skip Concentration all together for a while, it is nice but not ultimately neccessary. If there is resistance to it I would interpret that as the body/mind system signalling it is time for something else. You seem to have been using it to stave off some sort of depression and I think it is better to do shadow-work and get rid of the psychological pathologies rather than try to "hide" in the jhanas.

My recommendation would be that you try some "Direct Pointing" (just google Gateless Gatecrashers) to get past the "no-self" hurdle, then switch to vipassana/insight meditation.

The problem with all concentration meditations is two-fold:

1. Effects are not permanent. It will not help the evolution of your ego/soul very much, though it can be very nice.

2. It actually strengthens the illusion that there is a real "you" doing it that is "achieving" something. That is not true. The "you" is what is resisting the process, not what is achieving anything.

My preferred method is a constant 24/7 "vipassana" state of mind, where everything is noticed but not "touched" or "grasped at". Combines with self-inquiry/shadow-work. Throw in a healthy dose of psychadelics (much healthier than drinking) and you're well on your way to some serious levels of enlightenment.

Good luck on the path, and remember, if it's not fun and/or hurting, you're probably doing it wrong.

hi,
MTS made some good points.  i did the direct pointing thingy a few years back and had some interesting experiences but that particular set of excercises did not get me past a simple intellectual level of "no-self" understanding.  some people report really good results though.

to your question about tips to do vipassana (which MTS also reccomends) focused on the 3Cs, the MCTB will give oyu a much better perspective on this.  since the 3Cs is referred to as both a the 3rd stage of the progress of insight AND refers to the common characteristics of simply everything we experience, outside of nibanna, we have to be sure of what we're talking about.

when doing vipassana, whether body scanning, noting, open awareness etc., , it is suggested in the satipatthana sutta that one notices these three characteristics (dissatisfaction, impermance and the lack of a solid enduring self) of whatever phenomena you are presently investigating.  that is the three characteristic that we are trying to notice during practice.  the stage 3C is a way to guage where you are on that progress of insight as most people have similar experiences at that stage.

peace

tom

yeah your kinda right im think of not getting jhanas anymore it hit me queit a big one, i got little deppressed,im even thinking going to Korea becoming a monk, i reaaaaally (not like i get deppressed and thinkin o no ,lying in my bed,i can do thing and want to do etc.)want to get back on my meditation ,But im little bit  worried that if I will keep deppressive mood it not gonna be cool being a monk in Korea(im from europe) thinking what im doing here, how far is my home ,i wanna my mommy I hate being fucking deppressed,it such a bitch, all summer i was laying down in grass looking for stars in jhanic mood, it was something i would like/must carry all my life,but no someday just bam deppressed cant access jhanas ,now thinking about being a monk ,wich really think can help me reach where i was .And what you mean by shadow-work ?Mathias
im not in deep deppression , im deppressed mood , im not anxious ,just filling bit shiity,im happy im not deppressed deeply ,so it not catasthropic, i hope it gonna fuck off from me,because again i want to get back where i was ,
And Mattias how shoul i do walking vippasana /open eyes, you mean like doing noticing and investigating 3cs or just notice ,that gonna help me push throught deppressive mood ?

please read MCTB.  it addresses many of the things you are going through.  if this depressed mood is practice related it has some good tips but one thing it does stress is to not overreact.  moving to korea would qualify in some circles. :-)

no no idont overreact,i did but now i understand it not gonna help just make mind more not calm,im gonna speak with Zen monk after 3 days about going to be Zen monk i think its gonna be thought Maybe some of you have expierence being a Zen monk?

changing of seasons may afect my mood ,but i think im better now doing Yoga especially savasana asana,gets my mood lifted,so slightly returning ,30 minper day concentration,i wanna to understand 3 c so badly and go to insight practice ,reading all of you reaching SE,makes me envy (not the bad way) ,in the entusiasctic way thats its possible and waiting for me