Awakening is not an accident anymore

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Babs _, modified 8 Years ago at 11/22/15 6:10 AM
Created 8 Years ago at 11/22/15 6:10 AM

Awakening is not an accident anymore

Posts: 709 Join Date: 2/5/13 Recent Posts
Hi all,

I'm posting here a short text that I wrote a few days ago. Hope it is of help to some. Feel free to comment.

Cheers,
-Baba

Awakening is not an accident anymore


Copied from: http://guruslight.blogspot.fi/2015/11/awakening-is-not-accident-anymore.html

During the past few weeks I've several times come across a specific problem
in the spiritual/mind training scene related to awakening. I am
referring to the matter of even very seasoned or somewhat experienced
spiritual seekers being frustrated with the fact that despite of
their long efforts and following the advices they have been given,
they have not yet awakened. Adding to this problem, it seems to me
that spiritual guides do not always specifically know what awakening
specifically is and what takes place with awakening, even if they are
awakened themselves and therefore are able to recognise the awakening
of others. This is turn has an impact to the instructions and
technology that people are told to use or not use in their pursuit of
awakening.


I have defined awakening as the dropping off of the notion of me from
the place of subject, so I will not repeat it here. My book Awake!
Stories of awakening and dialogues leading to it
is available for free at
Samadhi Path-website so get it and learn about the two part formula,
if you are not familiar with it already. Just
letting you know that I have written and edited an extended version
of the book that is already finished in the Finnish language. I am
seeking a publisher for it at the moment. The present English version
of the book that is available for free, is also being edited and
extended as we speak.

Popular misconceptions

Couple of popular misconceptions regarding awakening are that A) doing some
spiritual practices will somehow make you awakened or emoticon nothing
cannot be done to get awakened. Depending on the situation both can
be true. However, based on my long study with masters and work as a
direct pointer that has lead to awakening of over 30 people during
the past 1½ years, I have to reject both of these views as valid
statements in a large scale. Based on what I have witnessed I have to
say that with the majority of people neither of these views are
airtight and therefore they are impractical and misleading.

Practices will awaken you

Committing in some spiritual practices might or might not make one awakened. In
fact, based on my years of study and research it seems that, yes some
people get awakened through various spiritual practices but these
people are a very small minority among the larger mass of awakened
people. Therefore, it seems that committing in some practices,
whatever they might be, does not naturally and automatically result
to awakening, except in few cases.

Nothing cannot be done to get awakened

The claim that nothing cannot be done to get awakened is misleading
altogether. Based on my experience that simply is not the case. I
feel that this claim is misleading because there are certain things
that can be done to get awakened. I am referring to the two step
formula that has worked for 92% of people that I have worked with.
This is a statistical fact. These people have different social,
educational and spiritual backgrounds, and include both men and women
of all ages. Some of them have none prior spiritual training or
meditation practice history.

Awakening is not an accident anymore

"Awakening is like an accident. You can't make it happen but spiritual practices
make you accident prone." This is one of the catch phrases I've
heard. It is true that awakening might come about like an accident,
completely unexpectedly or as a side product to some practice but
again these people are a marginal group among awakened folk as large.
I know personally about 50-60 awakened individuals. Out of them only
2 or 3 have awakened spontaneously or accidentally through some
practices. Therefore, I have to refute this view as well. In my
experience, there is a way to generate awakening in a pragmatic
manner with solid results.

Doubt

As I post information to the internet about the Guidance
to Awakening
that I offer, people often meet it with suspect, sometimes as a joke, sometimes with
insult. I completely understand these reactions because our present
spiritual culture does not offer truly valid methods for awakening.
At the same time there is a huge enlightenment business going on all
around the world, so it is logical for people to react in this
manner. I get it. In such cases I have encouraged people to read the
materials I have presented to get a sense of what I am talking about.
Fortunately some people are able to meet this information with reason
and use it for their benefit.

Two step formula is for all

In this post I have expressed some critical views while at the same time
praising the method, two step formula, that I use myself. I want to
clarify why I do this.


First of all, the two step formula, is not my invention. I received it
intuitively after I had been asked for help by a friend who hadn't
awakened after a professional meditation practice of over 30 years. I
thought for a moment what would be the most direct way to help my
friend awaken, and snap, just like that, the formula came to my mind.
It worked well in my friend's case so I have used it ever since. It
was only later that I read from a source that the same formula is
used in some Tibetan dzogchen-tradition as a preliminary practice. I
think it is safe to assume that they have been using it for centuries
as their tradition is ancient. So, the two step formula is not my
invention, it just came to me. At the same time, I have not come
across any other method of mind training or a spiritual teacher who
publicly uses it.

While I have the responsibility to spread Samadhi Path-teachings that me
and my wife have learned from non-physical masters, I have no
interest in becoming a famous guru. To me personally it is enough to
meet people who are really interested in becoming awakened and
especially keen towards attaining karmic purity through Tibetan
Heart Yoga
, that is the main tantric method that I teach.


Having said that I am concerned with the spiritual situation of people in
general. Having suffered a lot myself due to confused mind and
dualistic delusion, I feel I want to do my best in helping others to
get awakened and even mature further. That is because awakening and
karmic purity puts an end to confusion and delusion caused by the
dualistic mind. I feel that as a human being and a spiritual teacher
I should do whatever I can to bring valid spiritual help to as many
people as possible, whether they know me personally or not.


For this reason, I hope that the two step formula would be used by other
spiritual guides and awakened teachers as well. It works so well. It
gives the desired results in 9 out of 10 cases within the time span
ranging from 6 hours to 12 days once the dialogue has begun. In two
cases it has even worked without me being involved as a guide, even
though later on I verified the awakenings. The percentage (92%) might
be higher had I been more experienced in giving guidance with the
formula when I gave my first guidances.


I hope this post of mine cleares up some things about this topic, the
two step formula and about the Guidance to Awakening that Samadhi
Path offers. I also hope that this piece of spiritual/mind training
technology spreads far and wide to all those who seek their way out
of dualistic confusion.


Thank you for reading,

-Baba, kimkatami@hotmail.com, 20.11.2015
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tom moylan, modified 8 Years ago at 11/22/15 7:02 AM
Created 8 Years ago at 11/22/15 7:02 AM

RE: Awakening is not an accident anymore

Posts: 896 Join Date: 3/7/11 Recent Posts
howdy baba,
i haven't looked at your two step method yet, but will.  a few years back the direct pointing method was taken off the shelf and given a new polish and people reported mixed results.  are you familiar with the four path theravada model often espoused on this forum?  if so, and even if not yet, i would REALLY LOVE to hear about the level of awakening your two step method produces.  this assumes that your method does not produce one kind of full awakening, end of story.

thanks, and i look forward to a good read.
tom
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Babs _, modified 8 Years ago at 11/22/15 9:04 AM
Created 8 Years ago at 11/22/15 9:04 AM

RE: Awakening is not an accident anymore

Posts: 709 Join Date: 2/5/13 Recent Posts
Hello Tom,

In the book you can find several bits where people after their awakening describe the change that has taken place in their mind/being and how they experience things after it. I have a lot more material available (but unfortunately it is only in Finnish at the time being), including questions and answers from several of these people 1-2 years after their initial awakening. And yes, this is an initial awakening, permanent but not a final one.

I am not familiar with the Four Path model and I haven't seen very good explanations of what it actually means. I took a look at MCTB which says on p. 274:

The Theravada Four Path Model is a model involving four stages of
awakening, namely First Path or Stream Entry (Pali: sotapanna), Second
Path or Once Returner (sakadagami), Third Path or Never Returner
(anagami) and finally Fourth Path, Holy One, Saint, or Conqueror (
arahat, arhat, arahant, or arhant, pick your favorite spelling).
Stream Entry eliminates the first three defilements: skeptical doubt,
attachment to rites and rituals, and personality belief.
...
In the Revised Four Path Model, Stream Enterers have discovered
the complete discontinuity that is called Fruition and sometimes called
Nirvana or Nibbana (Sanskrit vs. Pali)
...
Stream enterers... know that awakening or some different
understanding from the norm is possible, and yet they do not have all
that different an experience of most sensations from those who are not
yet stream enterers
. They may correctly extrapolate a lot of good
dharma insights from momentary experiences, particularly high up in
High Equanimity and the three moments before a Fruition, but this is
not the same as living there all the time
. In fact, most stream enterers
have a very hard time describing how things have changed in terms of
their daily life except that they cycle and can understand the dharma in
ways they never could before
.


For sure these people are stream-enterers. It varies how much other subconscious programming (I use the term karmic purification, inner objects) gets clarified in addition to the sense of me/self being removed from the place of subject. I can recall a couple of cases where people really were able to go deep in this sense and therefore in just a few days their minds were transformed a lot. In the case of these people I cannot say exactly which path of the Four Path model they might have gotten to but the point of the two-step formula and the guidance here is to make people stream-enterers and that's it. In our system the next stop from that is the Fourth Path or karmic purity how I like to call it.

The two-step formula can be used as such also after awakening with good results because each emotional reaction is charged with the same kind of energy, with a sense of me-ness. A few of the people I've worked with have done this for some time and got benefit from it but I have no cases who had used it longer as their primary method.








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Richard Zen, modified 8 Years ago at 11/22/15 11:33 AM
Created 8 Years ago at 11/22/15 11:33 AM

RE: Awakening is not an accident anymore

Posts: 1665 Join Date: 5/18/10 Recent Posts
I don't know, but I found that notcing "thinking", "strategizing", "analyzing", "analyzing Buddhism", "strategizing Buddhism", "thinking about Buddhism" shows emptiness really well. emoticon
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Babs _, modified 8 Years ago at 11/23/15 8:35 AM
Created 8 Years ago at 11/23/15 8:35 AM

RE: Awakening is not an accident anymore

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Richard Zen:
I don't know, but I found that notcing "thinking", "strategizing", "analyzing", "analyzing Buddhism", "strategizing Buddhism", "thinking about Buddhism" shows emptiness really well. emoticon

Oh, totally. This is my version of a perfect scam.
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Babs _, modified 8 Years ago at 11/24/15 3:24 AM
Created 8 Years ago at 11/24/15 3:24 AM

RE: Awakening is not an accident anymore

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Kim Katami:
Richard Zen:
I don't know, but I found that notcing "thinking", "strategizing", "analyzing", "analyzing Buddhism", "strategizing Buddhism", "thinking about Buddhism" shows emptiness really well. emoticon

Oh, totally. This is my version of a perfect scam.

This was meant as a joke in case someone didn't get it.
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CJMacie, modified 8 Years ago at 11/24/15 6:40 AM
Created 8 Years ago at 11/24/15 6:36 AM

RE: Awakening is not an accident anymore

Posts: 856 Join Date: 8/17/14 Recent Posts
Hi Kim,

Having seen your posts here a couple times, and watched some of those videos of people's still faces – they seem like nice people, as you do also; but over all it seems your just doing self-promotion here.

Then in the OP this text:
"I have defined awakening as the dropping off of the notion of me from the place of subject, so I will not repeat it here."

First, "me" is objective case, can't be used grammatically as "subject". But the sense of what you mean seems to be along the lines of a negation of "I/me/mine" as in Buddhist teachings. 

And the text here does repeat that definition. The rhetoric is a bit off, even given that English isn't your native language.

Lastly, in a body of text (the OP) with some 57 sentences, the pronouns "I", "me","myself", and "mine" appear some 59 times.

You claim to teach an awakening that's "initial", not "final", but "permanent", and I assume you claim to embody that awakening yourself – since one of those videos was of yourself. So there seems a bit of cognitive dissonance with your extensive use of the 1st-person pronouns.

The work, however, seems beneficial. Keep it up.
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Babs _, modified 8 Years ago at 11/24/15 7:40 AM
Created 8 Years ago at 11/24/15 7:40 AM

RE: Awakening is not an accident anymore

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Chris J Macie:
Hi Kim,

Having seen your posts here a couple times, and watched some of those videos of people's still faces – they seem like nice people, as you do also; but over all it seems your just doing self-promotion here.

Then in the OP this text:
"I have defined awakening as the dropping off of the notion of me from the place of subject, so I will not repeat it here."

First, "me" is objective case, can't be used grammatically as "subject". But the sense of what you mean seems to be along the lines of a negation of "I/me/mine" as in Buddhist teachings. 

And the text here does repeat that definition. The rhetoric is a bit off, even given that English isn't your native language.

Lastly, in a body of text (the OP) with some 57 sentences, the pronouns "I", "me","myself", and "mine" appear some 59 times.

You claim to teach an awakening that's "initial", not "final", but "permanent", and I assume you claim to embody that awakening yourself – since one of those videos was of yourself. So there seems a bit of cognitive dissonance with your extensive use of the 1st-person pronouns.

The work, however, seems beneficial. Keep it up.
Hi Chris,

Pronouns, huh? What is the problem with using pronouns whether awakened or not? What happened to self-empty nature of thoughts? What you realise when you awaken is the self-empty nature of the I-thought. What drops off is the delusion causing content that the I-thought is charged with. After this you can repeat I, me, myself or mine as much as you wish but because the content is not the same anymore, nor is the experience.

This forum used to have the feel of non-sectarianism to it but mostly these days Dharma Overground seems Theravada Buddhist, perhaps it's Western version. I am not a Buddhist, though I have been. So I do not claim to know the Buddhist theory or say that what or how I teach is in accordance with Buddhist teachings. Tom was asking me about the Four Path in his reply so I replied to him, in the light of my understanding.

Self-promotion? I do not know whether you mean this as self-promotion as in promotion of my persona or self-promotion as in promoting what I teach.

As I said in my OP, I wish that all people would have the best possible know-how to pursuit their paths, whatever they may be. For this reason I post here and elsewhere. You may see this as promoting what I teach but I see it as promoting universally valid mind training or spiritual tools that do not belong solely to me. It is evident that there is immense benefit.

I felt, or used to anyway, that this forum was, originally at least, meant for this universal purpose.
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Babs _, modified 8 Years ago at 11/24/15 8:02 AM
Created 8 Years ago at 11/24/15 8:02 AM

RE: Awakening is not an accident anymore

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Chris J Macie:
Hi Kim,


The work, however, seems beneficial. Keep it up.
Just wanted to add that my prev post was not entirely meant as a reply to Chris.

And I forgot to say thanks to Chris...
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CJMacie, modified 8 Years ago at 11/25/15 3:18 AM
Created 8 Years ago at 11/25/15 3:02 AM

RE: Awakening is not an accident anymore

Posts: 856 Join Date: 8/17/14 Recent Posts
re: Kim Katami (11/24/15 7:40 AM as a reply to Chris J Macie)
"I felt, or used to anyway, that this forum was, originally at least, meant for this universal purpose ."

Thanks for the thoughtful, and restrained reply to my s/w challenging post.

Stylistically, there's a tension between excessive use of 1st-person pronouns (I, me, mine, myself,…) and claims of universality. This is not meant as personal here, just an observation, a case study, for the purpose of reflection, on all sides.

A teacher of mine English way back in high school pointed this out to us (the students): when one's writing uses these pronouns to a degree that stands out (say to an English teacher, or literary critic), that says something about the focus of presentation, which, at least from the viewpoint of an English teacher, might be an opportunity for insight, and potential improvement.

Ever since, I've noticed when such a tendency arises in my own writing, and when noticing it in others' published writings; particularly when it has to do with some sort of "dharma". For instance, use of personal anecdotes, and framings like "well, for me…", does seem one of the hallmarks of dharma-talks of the "mushroom-effect" type (notably in the Vipassana/Insight Movement), and quite noticeably with those teachers with a background in psychology (another hallmark of that movement). This is not to place you, Kim, in that category; just an illustration which may ring a bell with some folks' experience here.

The point is subtle; the borderline is hazy. There is, though, a distinct sense that s/t arises about writing (speech) which appears to so focus on the author's personal perspective – that there's a certain lack of detachment; not to say exactly of "objectivity", which is often a pretense at such detachment, but rather a kind of lack of perspective.

"What you realise when you awaken is the self-empty nature of the I-thought. What drops off is the delusion causing content that the I-thought is charged with. After this you can repeat I, me, myself or mine as much as you wish but because the content is not the same anymore, nor is the experience."

Again, fuzzy borders. When the verbal behavior persists in noticable 1st-person orientation, there's a question as to where, how can one observe, intuit, gain insight into the nature of the delusion from the verbal behavior?

There's careful attention to this issue in Buddha's teachings; e.g. in his use of "The Tathāgata says…" to denote he's talking from a positionwhere the viewpoint is understood as a phenomenon, like the persona mask worn by the actors in Greek tragedies. According to Aristotle's analysis (in the Poetics), the power of Greek tragedy (the "catharsis") lies in the viewer recognizing that the actor is playing a role enacting some hideously pathetic situation, and then, reflexively, that the viewer him/herself goes though life also playing roles experiencing and confronting the dukkha of life. The individual human consciousness is a vehicle for the experience, which has a life of it's own, not bound to nor belonging to the individual as any kind of substantial or central entity.

(There are also instances of this type of impersonal rhetorical device being used to a obviously pretentious degree – think some writings of "Richard" of "Actualism".)

As for "self-promotion", what's meant is, from what I've noticed, you / Kim enter the discussion here in DhO primarily to report on, and probably to attract others to your method -- or have you participated also in other people's discussions here too? (e.g. the currently active thread "Gateless Gatecrashers" (http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/5776200) which focally relates to your definition of awakening.)

"This forum used to have the feel of non-sectarianism…"

And it still does – non-sectarianism understood as allowing a range of sectarian viewpoints to be aired and interact, often to be interacted with, i.e. subject to critique. What you present is another 'sect'. And that's fine. For some it's beneficial to investigate, maybe to try out or adopt; for others' it's beneficial to bounce-off it their own divergent viewpoints. That's discussion; that's the DhO version of sangha.
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Babs _, modified 8 Years ago at 11/25/15 7:23 AM
Created 8 Years ago at 11/25/15 7:23 AM

RE: Awakening is not an accident anymore

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Hi again,

I think I didn't quite get what you meant with your first post, that you continued in this latter one. I might not get it fully even now, (I read your posts a couple of times and my English was put to test, native English speakers always somehow manage to use very challenging language that I find difficult to understand) but I think I got the picture now.

So your main point is the issue of semantics/rhetoric in the way the message is expressed here i.e. how I express myself. That is a fair notion. Sure, that is a good point. When I do direct pointing during meditation classes I use two linguistic expression, both the relative and absolute perspectives. And it seems to get the job done.

Yes, I don't deny the fact that I wouldn't post here to get people interested in Samadhi Path-teachings. I have commented here earlier on topics and still do read this forum but recently I just haven't come across topics that would be interesting enough for me. This might be because earlier I have been very active writing on several forums but I've lost that kind of interest in forum communication.


Eva Nie, modified 8 Years ago at 11/25/15 7:02 PM
Created 8 Years ago at 11/25/15 7:02 PM

RE: Awakening is not an accident anymore

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Chris J Macie:
re:

Ever since, I've noticed when such a tendency arises in my own writing, and when noticing it in others' published writings; particularly when it has to do with some sort of "dharma". For instance, use of personal anecdotes, and framings like "well, for me…", does seem one of the hallmarks of dharma-talks of the "mushroom-effect" type (notably in the Vipassana/Insight Movement), and quite noticeably with those teachers with a background in psychology (another hallmark of that movement). This is not to place you, Kim, in that category; just an illustration which may ring a bell with some folks' experience here.
Might not be as accurate for those whose English is not native.  IMO, foreign speakers likely will go more often with the forms that seem easiest to say correctly or that they were taught first.  English is a difficult language.  Also, other languages have certain stylistic tendencies different from English that will tend to strongly color their speech even when they try to speak other languages.   
-Eva
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Babs _, modified 8 Years ago at 11/26/15 6:15 AM
Created 8 Years ago at 11/26/15 6:15 AM

RE: Awakening is not an accident anymore

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Thanks Eva and Chris for these points. I will consider this more carefully than I have.

At the same time, ref. to my OP, I'm happy to inform that the percentage of awakenings with this method has risen up to 95%(!). I got a chance to do the guidance again with a person who didn't go through at her first attempt (probably because I wasn't experienced enough to guide using this formula) over one year ago. Now she passed. Very good, very nice emoticon
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CJMacie, modified 8 Years ago at 11/30/15 6:05 AM
Created 8 Years ago at 11/30/15 6:02 AM

RE: Awakening is not an accident anymore

Posts: 856 Join Date: 8/17/14 Recent Posts
re: Kim Katami (11/25/15 5:23 AM as a reply to Chris J Macie.)

Verbal communication about serious non-verbal experience like "awakening" is inherently difficult. My writing is also often imperfectly thought-out and expressed. As you say "getting the job done" is the bottom-line.

" … recently I just haven't come across topics that would be interesting enough for me. This might be because earlier I have been very active writing on several forums but I've lost that kind of interest in forum communication."

Fair enough. Some may recognize how interest comes and goes. A dhamma interpretation might be that my personal awareness is a changing process (impermanence, and no really fixed thing there in the first place), now wanting to "become" this identity or that – one take on rebirthing. I attended Insight Meditation type groups for several years, feeding an identity of something thought to be rewarding in that. That's changed to feeding on direction from more traditional monastic teachers, seemingly amore solidly worked-out method of training and insight. Judging fromt he history, that could evolve further and alter direction. One aspect that seems in the direction of "awakening" is understanding the why and how of these changes of mind. Is there to be found a stabilizing presence to focus it all, and fashion more consistent benefit to this life and its interaction with everything going-on around it?

Likewise, the focus in these discussions goes through changes, phases, as do the discussion forums themselves.

Buddhist viewpoint nicely focuses awareness of these perceptions of volatility, the hunger for satisfaction, and issue of identification (anicca, dukkha, anatta); and offers pragmatic hints in the direction of getting more free of bondage to those perceptions.
Dennis, modified 8 Years ago at 12/27/15 3:31 PM
Created 8 Years ago at 12/27/15 3:31 PM

RE: Awakening is not an accident anymore

Post: 1 Join Date: 12/27/15 Recent Posts
Hey Kim,

I just came across your post and was wondering about the material that you are offering here. 
I have two short questions for you if you find some time to answer them.


1.) In your material you say:"Giving guidance is work for the teacher, so it's appropriate that you compensate for the time and expertise given by the teacher for your guidance." I agree with that in general, allthough I think paying 300-1000  for a teacher to write a couple emails (at least once a day, usually more) is way out of scale, don't you agree? Dont you think it is better to help people to attain (realize) enlightenment and then ask them for a donation? 

2.) The awakening will be confirmed by comparing pictures of the student's face from before and after the program. I am wondering what you can see or rather what is going to change in once face that tells you that one is enlightent.

Hope to hear from you soon
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Babs _, modified 8 Years ago at 12/28/15 2:09 AM
Created 8 Years ago at 12/28/15 2:09 AM

RE: Awakening is not an accident anymore

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DennisHey Kim,

I just came across your post and was wondering about the material that you are offering here. 
I have two short questions for you if you find some time to answer them.

1.) In your material you say:"Giving guidance is work for the teacher, so it's appropriate that you compensate for the time and expertise given by the teacher for your guidance." I agree with that in general, allthough I think paying 300-1000  for a teacher to write a couple emails (at least once a day, usually more) is way out of scale, don't you agree? Dont you think it is better to help people to attain (realize) enlightenment and then ask them for a donation? 

2.) The awakening will be confirmed by comparing pictures of the student's face from before and after the program. I am wondering what you can see or rather what is going to change in once face that tells you that one is enlightent.

Hope to hear from you soon

Hello Dennis,

Donation. I live in Finland, that is the West, where there is no culture for making donations in the context of spirituality. I tried teaching solely on donations several years ago but guess what, people (literally) dug in their pockets, separated bigger 1 and 2 € coins out of the smaller coins and then gave the smaller coins. I think I got 4 or 5 € for one whole weekend of teaching, that is working. Even my travelling costs were 120€. Once I organised a 4-day retreat based on donations. It was about a week and half of full time working. I was left with 30 € after all expenses. The conclusion of this is that the Westerners, or at least Finnish people, are not wired to understand this situation. This is unfortunate, I'd prefer donations but because it is like this, I have not hesitated to setting up a system like this. As a general remark (not meant to you personally Dennis) there are always those who are keen to critisize you when you charge money for "spiritual teaching" because it should be "free". But through simple logical reasoning one can understand the financial realities of living in a Western country, and especially if the teacher is a layman as I am. You know, there are bills to pay and family to support.

There is also this, quote from the materials online: If you are less well-off but want to participate in the guidance, negotiate the matter with the teacher.

Another point of view into the matter is that I see spiritual/nondual teachers as specialists of their own field just like there are specialists in every art and field, like specialised doctors and whatnot. One-on-one sessioning whether it is done live or through the internet, is private tutoring. Writing "a couple of emails" with a specialist can make a life changing difference, you know.

Confirmation of awakening. It is said that an enlightened person can recognise another enlightened person. The sense of me or I sits as an energetic sensation in the head space behind the eyes. It is from there where it also disappears when awakening takes place. Awakening means that the sense of me as an actual entity disappears. This subtle energetic difference can be observed from a photograph, just as it can be observed live in person. I confirm awakenings from before and after photos as well as by asking some checking questions. Often I also feel from distance whether the person is awakened or not.

Cheers,
Baba


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Babs _, modified 8 Years ago at 12/28/15 3:34 AM
Created 8 Years ago at 12/28/15 3:34 AM

RE: Awakening is not an accident anymore

Posts: 709 Join Date: 2/5/13 Recent Posts
Dennis paying 300-1000 

Just to add:

Indicative chart of compensation:
1-3 days: 100-200€
4-6 days: 200-300€
7-14 days 300-1000€

And that we have a donating system in use with close students, at courses and retreats that are solely for them.

Yup.

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