Message Boards Message Boards

Toggle
Measuring egocentricity
Answer
12/5/15 4:21 AM
Hi,

I'd like to find a test/questionnaire which measures egocentricity as defined below.  Please link me in if you know of one.

I'd like something which measures the degree to which a person believes his/her own thoughts.

Thanks.

RE: Measuring egocentricity
Answer
12/5/15 10:48 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
That's not egocentricity. That's paranoia:


http://psymed.info/paranoid_personality_disorder_test


https://www.sagepub.com/sites/default/files/upm-binaries/15198_Chapter3.pdf
The six main traits associated with PPD ...are mistrust/suspiciousness, antagonism/ aggressiveness, introversion/excessive autonomy, hypersensitivity, hypervigilance, and rigidity. Mistrust/suspiciousness is a lack of trust in others. PPD individuals question the loyalty or truthfulness of other people and are prone to think that others are “out to get them” and to respond defensively. Hypersensitivity is one’s tendency to perceive others’ remarks or comments as attacks or criticisms directed against oneself, one’s beliefs, or one’s performance of a task. PPD individuals tend to believe that others are judging them negatively, and, in response, they tend to experience anger and anxiety. Antagonism/aggressiveness is a tendency to feel angry, to be combative toward others, and to view others and the world as hostile. Introversion/ excessive autonomy is a tendency to distance oneself from others, remain aloof, and feel tense around others. Hypervigilance is a tendency to continually scan the environment in an attempt to confirm hypotheses about the malevolent intentions or motives of others. Rigidity is a personality trait in which an individual’s beliefs, behavior, and affective style are not readily open to questioning or change.

RE: Measuring egocentricity
Answer
12/6/15 2:29 AM as a reply to Richard Zen.
That was an extremely helpful and interesting post. Thanks for that.

RE: Measuring egocentricity
Answer
12/6/15 3:59 AM as a reply to Richard Zen.
I think paranoia would be a subset (an extreme subset) of those who believes their thoughts are true.  But I'm pretty sure everyone believes his thoughts (eg. the self-thought at the very least), yet most aren't paranoid.  Why did you chose this one very specific condition?

I scored 8 on the test, ie. I have no paranoid tendencies.  And yet I'm pretty sure I believe my thoughts which creates suffering.  I feel like we're talking at cross purposes here. 

Daniel, why did you think the post was so good?  It seemed unusual to me.



 

RE: Measuring egocentricity
Answer
12/6/15 10:53 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
C C C:
I think paranoia would be a subset (an extreme subset) of those who believes their thoughts are true.  But I'm pretty sure everyone believes his thoughts (eg. the self-thought at the very least), yet most aren't paranoid.  Why did you chose this one very specific condition?

I scored 8 on the test, ie. I have no paranoid tendencies.  And yet I'm pretty sure I believe my thoughts which creates suffering.  I feel like we're talking at cross purposes here. 

Daniel, why did you think the post was so good?  It seemed unusual to me.


Look, egocentricity is highly connected to narcissism and paranoia. From some articles I read on psychology today they say they often come together. 

Couple those two together and look at ENTJ's/ESTJ's/ISTJ's in MBTI as the most likely candidates (though any type could develop it). Some of these people can be successful and have great organization but it's all in the name of controlling others with hyper-criticism to satisfy needs which are related to self-defectiveness beliefs (damaging thoughts people have about themselves that might not be true).

http://personality-testing.info/tests/NPI/

I'm a 6 out of 40 on the bell-curve so that pretty much confirms passivity.

This is the current guru on Narcissism who also has all 9 narcissist personality disorder traits.

https://www.youtube.com/user/samvaknin
http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/dsm-iv.html

These are the types that got me into psychology and meditation years ago because I had to work with them and had NO idea on how they tick and what to do about them. I'm an INFP and with meditation and modern psychology I'm much better able to understand why being too nice and not assertive enough can get you into trouble with these types because they are always looking for a co-dependent. If you are around people like this then get away from them as much as you can. 

If you want to go HARDCORE on people's unchallenged beliefs and ego-centrism in the general population then you need to cast a HUGE net including Unwanted Intrustive Thoughts. I did a speech recently about them:

http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/5726971#_19_message_5792688

People are also ego-centric about envy related to self-beliefs that operate as schemas. To understand envy you can look at that post on relationships where I posted links from Susan Fiske and Rene Girard. I would also add Benedicte Vidiallet (which is not in the post). Her workplace envy book brings a Lacanian perspective and how jouissance/savouring is connected to people's self-beliefs/ego-centrism/envy.

http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/5797056#_19_message_5797294

This is a nice list of maladaptive schemas and coping styles:

http://www.schematherapy.com/id73.htm

One of the best ways to deal with one's own schemas and other people's is understanding Cognitive Behaviour Therapy. It allows you to use logical arguments to accept your own weaknesses and to understand the weaknesses of others. Then you need to use extinction by creating new experiences in your life to PROVE SELF-BELIEFS WRONG. Christine Padesky is one of the best on this subject:

http://padesky.com/newpad/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/schema_change_article_permissions.pdf

She also has an excellent strengths based CBT 4 step model which is about reconstructing new-self beliefs and challenging schemas and identifying strengths and developing resilience.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cpp.1795/epdf

So there. Now you have the entire gamut of distorted self-beliefs and how people think thoughts and believe them without challenging them and how to get out of it, because this is the most important thing that people should learn out of this post:

If you don't like beliefs and attitudes of other people you need to make sure you are not doing the same thing yourself.

Summary:
  • Study Narcissism and Paranoia to get to the most core ego-centrism and study their self-beliefs. Remember that self-defectiveness is the area that connects all personality disorders no matter how passive or aggressive they are.
  • Study Unwanted Instrusive Thinking (especially how people unwillingly condition these beliefs into themselves). Hint: Meditation is a good way to dealing with UITs.
  • Study schemas, how they are developed, how people cope, how to detect them and how to get out of them.

RE: Measuring egocentricity
Answer
12/6/15 2:22 PM as a reply to Richard Zen.
And that was even more helpful! What an uncanny synchronicity. I am also an INFP.

RE: Measuring egocentricity
Answer
12/6/15 4:30 PM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Daniel M. Ingram:
And that was even more helpful! What an uncanny synchronicity. I am also an INFP.

In an MBTI book, Shadows of Type by Angelina Bennet, she expects that INFPs would take to meditation by the time they're in their 30s. When I read it I just laughed. It makes sense since Introverted Feeling is about personal values and looking inward, and Extroverted Intuition is about possibilities. I still think that Sensing Extroverstion (weak for INFPs) gets developed quite a lot with noting practice, and now I can see that meditation could be used in all the cognitive functions. Mental Contrasting can be used in meditation and goal setting so there's really no limit once the ruminating habit weakens. Just direct your intentions.

RE: Measuring egocentricity
Answer
12/6/15 7:38 PM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Daniel M. Ingram:
And that was even more helpful! What an uncanny synchronicity. I am also an INFP.
Why did you ignore my question? 

Thanks Richard.  Plenty to read there.  I have issues related to insecure attachment (I think... ).  So it basically gets played out over and over with people deliberately ignoring and/or being nasty to me.  The really hard thing to stomach is that there's no professional help available.  People say "oh there's help available".  Well actually no, there's not.  I've been to so many people, spent a fortune, for no result.  I do all the exercises, all the work and nothing changes. 

Oh well, that's life eh.  I'll read that stuff and apply it. 

RE: Measuring egocentricity
Answer
12/6/15 7:43 PM as a reply to Richard Zen.
Richard Zen:

If you don't like beliefs and attitudes of other people you need to make sure you are not doing the same thing yourself.




I certainly make a point never to ignore anyone, because I know how painful that is.  Some people ignore others purposefully if they notice this vulnerability, I guess because they enjoy hurting people (??  I don't know). 

In terms of my general attitude of being 'prickly' and challenging, that's because if I'm not that way, then no one pays attention, no one believes me, no one cares.  So I guess that's the belief that needs to change. 

RE: Measuring egocentricity
Answer
12/7/15 3:48 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
Hi CCC
I had the same take on richard's first post.  my take was that his conclusion was an overreach as my rough working definition of egocentricity is somewhat general.  we see egocentricity in all actions and at really divergent concentrations.  i tend to see it as one thing albeit in stronger or weaker solution.

his 2nd post points to a deeper way to parse the language which, to me, definitely was not apparent and i have not yet made it through all of the links he offered.

i took the tests and found that i am an INTP

http://www.16personalities.com/intp-personality

it was like looking onto the mirror when i read that.  my skepticism as to the test's accuracy was demolished.

RE: Measuring egocentricity
Answer
12/7/15 5:27 AM as a reply to tom moylan.
Hey Tom,

I still don't fully understand the focus on paranoia, but it's possibly not essential that I understand that.  I'm plugging on with some schema identification and change as per Richard's refs.  I have a mild leaning towards narcissism, not as strong as I expected.

Richard, say my underlying schema was "I'm not good enough to receieve unconditional love, attention, understanding".  How would I go about disproving that when I have no direct evidence of the opposite?

People often tell me I have so much going for me, (excuse me if that sounds narcissistic, maybe it does) and I don't have a belief in me being 'bad' or 'useless' or 'worthless' as such.  But there's certainly something there that makes me feel judged and rejected and ignored.

RE: Measuring egocentricity
Answer
12/7/15 7:29 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
howdy CCC
you DO have a lot going for you ;-)

i know that i do.  hearing that from others though does not change my inner experience even a little.
whatever the causes (catholicism, white guilt, genetic predisposition, karmic traces from previous lives, childhood trauma...) for continually checking in on my motivations and sankaric drives is my business and my cross alone to bear.

why are some of us really hard on ourselves and others less so.  the face we turn outwards to the world is largely an invention that we try to keep upright.  when we are largely successful at this bit of theater people say we're really great people.  we, however, know our own swirling mass of egoistic drives which we would mostly prefer to be satisfied.  when we compare the two, the evidence falls down on the side of our own argument.  we believe our own stories. we are not as good, good enough, perfect.., as everyone thinks we are.

cheers mate

RE: Measuring egocentricity
Answer
12/7/15 8:05 AM as a reply to tom moylan.
tom moylan:
Hi CCC
I had the same take on richard's first post.  my take was that his conclusion was an overreach as my rough working definition of egocentricity is somewhat general.  we see egocentricity in all actions and at really divergent concentrations.  i tend to see it as one thing albeit in stronger or weaker solution.

his 2nd post points to a deeper way to parse the language which, to me, definitely was not apparent and i have not yet made it through all of the links he offered.

i took the tests and found that i am an INTP

http://www.16personalities.com/intp-personality

it was like looking onto the mirror when i read that.  my skepticism as to the test's accuracy was demolished.
The reason why I had to stretch is because he was asking about egocentricity (which is typically about narcissism) but he was also talking about beliving thoughts to be true which paranoia is highly connected to. Paranoid people are believing in thoughts without testing them all the time.

BTW now that you know what your Myers-Briggs is you can look at your functions and see your weaker cognitive functions:

http://understandmyersbriggs.blogspot.ca/2012/12/the-8-cognitive-functions.html

If you choose you can develop the weaker functions to be more balanced (which takes years but is fun) or you can try to develop your strengths further so you can be a specialist. Lots of choice there.

RE: Measuring egocentricity
Answer
12/7/15 8:16 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
C C C:
Richard, say my underlying schema was "I'm not good enough to receieve unconditional love, attention, understanding".  How would I go about disproving that when I have no direct evidence of the opposite?

People often tell me I have so much going for me, (excuse me if that sounds narcissistic, maybe it does) and I don't have a belief in me being 'bad' or 'useless' or 'worthless' as such.  But there's certainly something there that makes me feel judged and rejected and ignored.

If you mistreat people then currently your thoughts about "not good enough" aren't a schema and are correct, but if you change your behaviour so that you are lovable do the things the Feeling Extroverts do you'll look like a different person to people. Remember that if you do Myers-Briggs Type Development it's just like meditation in that it takes years of repetition to get good at. 

The most fun thing is when you actually get good at a function that was weaker your habitual thinking starts changing in a way that you can feel in your head and body and you start thinking automatically like people who have this function. Just like years of Brahmaviharas can change people's brains the same is for developing Myers-Briggs cognitive functions.

Just like Tom, find your type, then look at the thinking functions you ignore for development:

http://understandmyersbriggs.blogspot.ca/2012/12/the-8-cognitive-functions.html

If you feel judged, rejected or ignored when things are going well for you then that is the envy of other people and those Rene Girard interviews (I know quite long) and Workplace Envy by Vidiallet (which is an ebook in many libraries) will show you what happens when you are outwardly successful and even worse if you enjoy it. They will try to ostracize you.

RE: Measuring egocentricity
Answer
12/7/15 8:39 AM as a reply to Richard Zen.
hi richard,
"Paranoid people are believing in thoughts without testing them all the time."

really?  given my personality "type" , and my personally recognized tendencies, i cannot be paranoid because i am constantly testing all theses.  i can be paranoid though.

you also wrote, "BTW now that you know what your Myers-Briggs is you can look at your functions and see your weaker cognitive functions"

if you knew me, you would know that i have no weaknesses.  /sarc

great stuff.  thanks.

RE: Measuring egocentricity
Answer
12/7/15 5:53 PM as a reply to tom moylan.
tom moylan:


really?  given my personality "type" , and my personally recognized tendencies, i cannot be paranoid because i am constantly testing all theses.  i can be paranoid though.


That's because your theses are created faster than you test them emoticon

Use your Extroverted Intuition to test your Introverted Thinking. The way to do this is to see the good in all situations that happened, and especially to look at possibilities for making things better. You can also develop weaker judging functions which will speed up your perceiving so you don't look at possibilities for too long (big problem for me). 

Here are the Judging facets:

  • I remove uncertainty by making decisions.
  • I reach closure so I can take action and get things done.
  • For leisure time, I plan what I am going to do.
  • I keep my area orderly and structured so I know I can efficiently find things and get may tasks completed.
  • When given a task or assignment, I work on a schedule so that there are no last-minute rushes.
  • I finish tasks with enough time that I can go back and make improvements.
  • I use a schedule to keep life running smoothly, seeing it as a way to manage routine activities.
  • Before I begin a project, I plan the order of tasks that need to be completed and have all the resources available when needed.

Yikes!

RE: Measuring egocentricity
Answer
12/8/15 12:09 AM as a reply to Richard Zen.
Richard,

Your posts regarding personality type and goal-setting have piqued my curiosity.  I think this avenue could be very helpful to me.  I tried to send you a pm but didn't find your handle to be searchable.  Would you mind trying to send me one?

Cheers,
Noah

RE: Measuring egocentricity
Answer
12/8/15 1:31 AM as a reply to Noah.
Noah:
Richard,

Your posts regarding personality type and goal-setting have piqued my curiosity.  I think this avenue could be very helpful to me.  I tried to send you a pm but didn't find your handle to be searchable.  Would you mind trying to send me one?

Cheers,
Noah
Sent.

RE: Measuring egocentricity
Answer
6/22/16 11:59 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
I never found any accurate personality test.

I felt very anxious while i took this BPD Test

http://illnessquiz.com/borderline-personality-test/

It scored me 88 so it is not accurate for me but i might need professional evaluation.

RE: Measuring egocentricity
Answer
9/21/18 12:04 AM as a reply to Deen Dar Dar.
Got sent this article on narcissism by the author, and it is a good one, and she mentioned this thread, so, I posted it here. Enjoy!

RE: Measuring egocentricity
Answer
9/21/18 4:40 AM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Thanks for resurrect this topic. Full of knowledge and wisdom emoticon emoticon

RE: Measuring egocentricity
Answer
9/22/18 1:52 AM as a reply to Jordi.
Memories! Time to look back at my old posts because there's probably some unfinished business there. I remember how into Christine Padesky I was, but I probably have found better stuff since then. emoticon