When do you focus on pleasure? (to get to 1st jhana)

Joakim Bobbetibob, modified 8 Years ago at 12/14/15 5:43 AM
Created 8 Years ago at 12/14/15 5:43 AM

When do you focus on pleasure? (to get to 1st jhana)

Posts: 14 Join Date: 9/14/15 Recent Posts
I've been having my best meditation sessions lately with this technique:
Smile and focus on the sensations the smile makes. At the same time, breathing slowly in and out, controlling the breath.
It is best described as a simultaneous practice, where I make sure I'm very aware of myself breathing in and out, but always pushing the smiling sensations to the foreground. When I do this with the most attention I can give, there is very little room for thought, or I might say, it is very easy to pick up the initial thought and just refocus on the breath and then again pushing the smile to the foreground of attention. 
It seems to work very well, because there is simply no space for the thought to go on. And after just a few breaths I definitely feel "locked onto" the breath, and there are signs of pleasure. 

What happens is that the smile broadens in a natural way, so I really feel like smiling. But it's not the way I usually smile, I mean, it's the way I would smile when I'm having the happiest moment in my life. Eyes are smiling like I'm insanely happy about something.  
Then the eyes start fluttering, and there are quite strong sensations throughout the face, especially in the mouth and cheek area but also in the third eye, which is pulsating pretty hard. I guess the smile is creating a very positive feedback loop. 

There are feelings of happiness, but it is not very strong. There is much more feelings of pleasure. I still have thoughts, but they are only about the object of smiling but also they are a bit stressful which is of course why I'm writing here, because I don't know what to focus on. The way the first jhana is described in most places (I have used Leigh Brasington's instructions) I have had three or four moments where I felt as if my face was melting into bliss, but it quickly went away. I guess this was the entry to first jhana.

Now, trying to replicate those moments, I'm just trying to continue with the same technique. 
However, I now feel like I'm not getting anyway, and I'm trying to adjust the focus to either the pleasure or the smile but nothing happens. The moments I had, I know came very quickly (perhaps after applying right effort for 10-15 seconds) but I now feel like it doesn't matter what I focus upon, it doesn't matter how intense my focus is. I'm just spending time in very good concentration with pleasurable sensations, without hitting a jhana, or in best case a very soft one. And there is tiredness after some minutes because there is quite some effort applied.

When you first hit jhana, what were the small adjustments you made that you really felt was the important factors that got you to jhana?
And reading this, where do you think the problem is?
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tom moylan, modified 8 Years ago at 12/14/15 6:17 AM
Created 8 Years ago at 12/14/15 6:17 AM

RE: When do you focus on pleasure? (to get to 1st jhana)

Posts: 896 Join Date: 3/7/11 Recent Posts
hi joakim,
sounds like you are having some fun with it and are deepening your concentration.  i like your method.

generally there is somthing called piti which you are probably familiar with and is sometimes translated as rapture.  this is more bodily based than sukkha, which is often translated as happiness.  sukkha is finer. more subtle and usually becomes apparent as a 'thing' unto itself when the more gross 'piti' subsides naturally.

it is a progression.  as your hindrances fall away, concentration deepens and piti arises.  this might be your facial effects, eye movements etc.  in my case it is the sensation of hair standing up around the periphery of my face / scalp.  in developing jhanas, sticking with it is key, even when boredome arises, or tiredness etc.  staying with those pleasant sensations is the short term goal.  at some point these pleasurable sensations will no longer be as interesting as the have been.  this is good. it allows your concentration to check out the finer, more subtle, less body-based sensations of sukkha.  at some point the piti will fall away, you will calm down further and you will slide into the next jhana naturally.

the 'feeling' of sukkha, or happiness, is not much different than piti so at first it takes a little effort to parse the two out.  stay with the 'happy' sensations, (not the object which calls those sensations up!) and stay softly with that.
Joakim Bobbetibob, modified 8 Years ago at 12/14/15 6:40 AM
Created 8 Years ago at 12/14/15 6:40 AM

RE: When do you focus on pleasure? (to get to 1st jhana)

Posts: 14 Join Date: 9/14/15 Recent Posts
So in practice, you think to stay with the pleasureness of the eye fluttering and the sensations of a very broad smile, is better than to focus on the more narrow space of the smile (which is the focus initially)?

Because I feel like staying with the pleasure this way is a bit tiring. It's not that it is not enjoyable, but rather it just seems meaningless because nothing is happening, and it doesn't seem to create more happiness, or perhaps some but at least followed by agitation of the experience. It is just a bit intense, and feels strenous - not mentally, but physically. I'm also aware that when I seem to have the strongest focus, my neck feels quite tense. I guess relaxing is a part of reaching jhana, but it seems to counteract good focus if I have to pay attention and actively try to relax the muscles. And when I'm done with the sessions, I do feel it in my neck, but there is not a headache or feeling of mental strain, rather the opposite. So I wouldn't say I'm straining myself with this practice. 

It feels like I've found the door, and I have the right key, it's just that it needs the right wriggling to open the door - and I don't know what kind of subtle movements it needs.
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tom moylan, modified 8 Years ago at 12/14/15 9:38 AM
Created 8 Years ago at 12/14/15 9:38 AM

RE: When do you focus on pleasure? (to get to 1st jhana)

Posts: 896 Join Date: 3/7/11 Recent Posts
jhana is exclusive or reductive.  each successive jhana is reached by dropping factors that are obvious in the previous one.

at first one has to apply an effort of concentration, in your case, the sensations of smiling.  usually, the natural interest on tis pleasant object will allow you to drop the intentional focus, ar at least attenuate it greatly so that your focus on that pleasant sensation tends to happen on its own.

at some point what you are initially taking as object, perhaps the pleasant sensations and association of your face contorting to a smile, become less pleasurable due to their gross nature. they may even seem irritating.  nevertheless one sticks with this object, perhaps inclining your intention to the more subtle sensations of happiness.

tensing up does not help. relaxing and deepening concentration does. sticking with the sukkha (happy) feelings is where to incline your mind here, letting the muscular, tense sensations fall away on their own.

your analogy of the door and key is one that ayya khema used in some of her jhana talks in 1991.  coincidentally, it was while listening to one of these exact talks, several years ago that the progression of jhanas became clear to me.
Joakim Bobbetibob, modified 8 Years ago at 12/14/15 10:23 AM
Created 8 Years ago at 12/14/15 10:23 AM

RE: When do you focus on pleasure? (to get to 1st jhana)

Posts: 14 Join Date: 9/14/15 Recent Posts
I would say that after only a few breaths, my mind is locked onto the smile, and sensations have started to grow. By locked onto, I do mean that the focus is sort of automatic, or rather; this is the sensations (including thoughts) the mind wants to investigate or follow. It is just that after a couple of minutes of this, and when nothing is happening, there is a feeling that it is getting boring to follow it this way. I seem to have the characterics of the first jhana in place, but for the happiness factor which is not very strong, and does not seem able to grow. I do find the facial sensations a bit irritating, at least after some time spent on following them, but when I drop this I just seem to go out of the session altogether and not dropping into second jhana. 

What you say about the tense sensations falling away on their own seems to be a good approach, because I have had some experiences in these sessions with tension dropping away by just focusing on the object and getting just even a little bit happier. So I will continue with not actively relaxing because it really takes the focus away.

I think I'm on the right track. It would for sure be heavenly to experience a strong jhana for the first time, not just to bliss out, but to really get the experience and see that it is true, and to learn how to reproduce the state. And up until that time, just practicing concentration meditation is not bad for the mind at all anyway..
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fschuhi, modified 8 Years ago at 12/15/15 9:45 AM
Created 8 Years ago at 12/14/15 1:33 PM

RE: When do you focus on pleasure? (to get to 1st jhana)

Posts: 22 Join Date: 2/25/15 Recent Posts
Joakim Bobbetibob:
Because I feel like staying with the pleasure this way is a bit tiring. It's not that it is not enjoyable, but rather it just seems meaningless because nothing is happening, and it doesn't seem to create more happiness, or perhaps some but at least followed by agitation of the experience.

This seems to be a rather common problem. For me, the smile never worked. I got into a pleasurable mood, but my cheeks went rigid after a while. There was pleasurable bodily feeling (piti) and a little bit happy emotion (sukha), but no positive feedback loop with both getting stronger and really and perceptible taking me into 1st jhana. Quoting from Leigh Brasington book "Right Concentration":

Leigh Brasington:
If you put a fake smile on your face when you start meditating, and keep putting it back on if it falls off, by the time you arrive at access concentration, the smile will feel genuine (...) but actually, smiling seems to only work for about a quarter of the students I've worked with.

(BTW: The book is good, but much of the content is available on his website.)

According to Leigh, what's really important is to focus on what makes the pleasant feeling pleasant. Pleasent sensations can occur pretty much anywhere:
  • Tingling in the hands (in particular if you hold your hands w/ the thumbs lightly touching.)
  • In the heart center. Personally, I found the glowing feeling when doing metta really effective to infuse more sukha in the piti-sukha mix.
  • Higher energy centers, i.e. third eye, top of the head.
I got the idea with using the "metta glow" from Leigh when I asked him (on a retreat) how to increase the sukha, as 2nd jhana felt "stale", too brittle. As an alternative for the actual moment of needing more happiness, he also suggested to then remember the facial expression of a loved one (also pets), "but don't preplan it."

Joakim Bobbetibob:
It is just a bit intense, and feels strenous - not mentally, but physically. I'm also aware that when I seem to have the strongest focus, my neck feels quite tense. I guess relaxing is a part of reaching jhana, but it seems to counteract good focus if I have to pay attention and actively try to relax the muscles.

In the beginning of my jhana practice (not very advanced, I am beginner), I held my focus rigidly and was actually able to force myself into 1st jhana, but it did not feel at all like letting go. With the method of Leigh, though, the trick is to hold the focus *very lightly* on the pleasantness of pleasant sensation - - and do nothing else, wait, until 1st jhana arises.

On the retreat I therefore focused on facial holding patterns, one by one and repeatedly, and relaxed each of them into feeling positive about the practice. This excercise did not only gladden my mind but actually strengthened access concentration, resulting in a metta-like glow and a general feeling of being really awake. Eventually, something appeared in front of my face and tugged slightly, like an invitation to probe around to find the sweet spot. From there, it took not much more time to step aside correctly, to let the 1st jhana take over. Like elegantly holding your balance and feeling into the acceleration when a ski lift picks you up. No trance, no straining, really effortless.

Joakim Bobbetibob:
It feels like I've found the door, and I have the right key, it's just that it needs the right wriggling to open the door - and I don't know what kind of subtle movements it needs.

Tom Moylan has already pointed you towards Ayya Khema. There are many good dharma talks of her, in particular dealing with the jhanas. Leigh speaks very highly of her (she was his teacher).

EDIT: formatting, spelling.
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fschuhi, modified 8 Years ago at 12/14/15 2:44 PM
Created 8 Years ago at 12/14/15 2:44 PM

RE: When do you focus on pleasure? (to get to 1st jhana)

Posts: 22 Join Date: 2/25/15 Recent Posts
Joakim Bobbetibob:
I think I'm on the right track.
It sounds like you are definitely making good progress!

Some additional remarks, maybe helpful:

Jhana needs good access concentration. What is your meditation regimen? A consistent practice seems to be a requisite, and you could add self-retreats: a weekend, or a daylong, or even a couple of really undisturbed evenings.

I find it quite amazing how my daily life bleeds into jhana practice. Maybe this works for you, too: The more I "renounce" (less eating; less talking; staying away from time-sink websites like facebook; less "feeding", how Ajahn Geof puts it), the easier it is to find the jhanas. Or maybe better: The more unperturbed your mind is, the easier the jhanas are able to find you.

It would for sure be heavenly to experience a strong jhana for the first time, not just to bliss out, but to really get the experience and see that it is true, and to learn how to reproduce the state.

High expectations like "heavenly experience" are often said to get into the way. On the other hand, that's what I told myself in the beginning, it is certainly good to go for "wow!" and be really motivated.

In this forum there are some amazing yogis, practicing across a broad spectrum of jhanic experiences, some of them quite deeply absorbed. Reading those posts was a huge motivator for me. What turned out not to be a good idea, though, was to try to "clone" those experiences from others, those "wow!" mindstates. So when I hit 1st jhana for the first times, it was not fireworks as expected. Rather, it was nice; I felt elated; I felt I got it.

Having said that: Regardless of which group you belong to ("wow!" or "nice."), I bet you'll have a great time, something to look forward to. For me, with more practice the jhanas (in particular the 2nd) have gotten more and more enjoyable. There seems to be some positive feedback going on, with me having more confidence in my own abilities. Many forum posts about the jhanas also make more sense than before, I feel there is much to learn, something I am really grateful for.

And up until that time, just practicing concentration meditation is not bad for the mind at all anyway.

Yes, concentration keeps on giving and helps the insight practice (aka "sharpening Manjushri's sword" emoticon )
Joakim Bobbetibob, modified 8 Years ago at 12/15/15 6:54 AM
Created 8 Years ago at 12/15/15 6:54 AM

RE: When do you focus on pleasure? (to get to 1st jhana)

Posts: 14 Join Date: 9/14/15 Recent Posts
Thanks fschuhi, for two amazing posts. 

I have not really been able to have a meditation regimen, and have been wandering a lot with techniques and methods. The closest I've been to a consistent practice is with Kriya Yoga for the past four weeks, but it has been hard with not much results.
For the first time I feel like I've found something I can work with, and surely I need to set up a proper practice. 

I know Brasington says smiling only works for about 1/4th of his students and it does seem I am in that group,  though normally I would say smiling without wanting to is something I hate. It is just that after simply a few breaths and with more and more narrow focus the smile really feels genuine, so I think this is the way to go for me. But yes, I agree the cheeks gets rigid after some time, and is almost painful but in a good way.

I can't wait for the jhanas to come..
Joakim Bobbetibob, modified 8 Years ago at 12/16/15 10:44 AM
Created 8 Years ago at 12/16/15 10:43 AM

RE: When do you focus on pleasure? (to get to 1st jhana)

Posts: 14 Join Date: 9/14/15 Recent Posts
I'm sure it's possible to make the object into sort of a mind object, but for me this happens by itself when strong concentration is developed. There is a feeling of being one with the object. A simple approach I have which is what has worked best so far, is not to create stuff that is not there whether it be in mind or body, but simply pay attention as well as I can to the sensations I can percieve. The more I do this, the more I feel the mind is fused with the object. At some point even the eyes drop down to stay closer to the smile, this is when they start fluttering and I get a third eye pulse. When the eyes drop down, I feel a shift in the level of concentration. At this point, I am so close to the smile and can feel more subtle sensations, and distractions (both physical and mental) cannot bother me because I want to stay with it. Then more and more pleasure starts to arise.

The problem has been that this pleasure does not seem to take me anywhere, at least in the last few sessions. But as mentioned with the episode of face melting, I do believe I'm close to first jhana using this technique. What I feel more than anything is that I need to let go of all doubt and stressful thoughts about whether this is working or not, because it really is. 

Thanks for the input. 
neko, modified 8 Years ago at 12/16/15 11:37 AM
Created 8 Years ago at 12/16/15 11:37 AM

RE: When do you focus on pleasure? (to get to 1st jhana)

Posts: 762 Join Date: 11/26/14 Recent Posts
When do you focus on pleasure?

Even right from the start. My personal hack to get into jhana for the first time was to cause pleasure in the breathing. I breathed in whatever way I felt pleasureable at the time, at the rhythm it felt nice, sending air in the parts of the lungs that felt like they needed it the most, and focusing on how nice it all felt. Of course it isn't the standard, sutta-prescribed way to get into jhana, but it worked for me.

Focusing on an inner smile works too. As does just enjoying the moment, the fact that I am taking time for myself to relax and be with my body and thoughts. In my experience, to get into first jhana a lot of different things can work. For higher jhanas, it all becomes more standard, I believe.

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