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Myers Briggs Adventure

Myers Briggs Adventure
Answer
12/14/15 8:23 AM
I decided to visit a writing group from Meetup purposefully looking for INFPs. I can see the similarities I have with them and how disorganized they are, day-dreaming, introverted and strangely compassionate. I also have seen how more gregarious I am now that I developed myself with Toastmasters and how things changed. The self is malleable and changeable.

I walked home from the meetup and accidentally passed by a small Tibetan Buddhist monastery in a residential area. There was a small group walking around the building doing a basic walking meditation. Some people lost their concentration and looked at me. LOL! I kept walking and realized I'm done.

It was a good day.

I'm onto my Hartlzer workbooks now and want to develop aspects of people that I don't have. ENTJs and ESTJs can be assholes but they have other things going for them with their Thinking Extroversion, Sensing Introversion, and Intuition Introversion. According to Jung INFPs will get neurotic doing these practices but with Enlightenment there should be freedom right? So I'll put this to the test and sign in from time to time on progress.

RE: Myers Briggs Adventure
Answer
12/14/15 8:46 AM as a reply to Richard Zen.
You've heard the Apple - Myers Briggs legend, haven't you?

RE: Myers Briggs Adventure
Answer
12/14/15 8:53 AM as a reply to Scott Kinney.
Is that related to this? https://digg.com/2015/myers-briggs-secret-history

Fascinating and revealing backstory, not sure what it says about the efficacy of the type indicator.

RE: Myers Briggs Adventure
Answer
12/14/15 9:07 AM as a reply to Lewis James.
No, not related to that at all.

The short version of the story was that at one time Apple had employees wear tags with the Myers Briggs indicator on them. One person, who'd been at Apple for some time, took to wearing the indicator "FYIV".

When asked what type that was, the person replied "F**k You, I'm Vested"

RE: Myers Briggs Adventure
Answer
12/14/15 9:25 AM as a reply to Scott Kinney.
:-)

RE: Myers Briggs Adventure
Answer
12/14/15 12:57 PM as a reply to Richard Zen.
Myers-Briggs is just a preference inventory. The fact that you can develop skills shows that it's malleable and people can learn. It's not fixed. Anyone who believes MBTI is a fixed thing is wrong.

RE: Myers Briggs Adventure
Answer
12/14/15 7:59 PM as a reply to Richard Zen.
Oh boy I've given myself some homework. emoticon

I'm going to work on these particular functions for the next 6 months and see how I fare:

  • Se - Respond quickly to requests (or my own requests), doing whatever is necessary to meet the request.
  • Si - Create and maintain routines to conserve energy.
  • Ni - Review perspectives from different stakeholders.
  • Te - Find a goal, look at who needs to be an ally, what resources are needed, and what goals have to be dropped.
  • Te - Find a way to make a goal measureable.
  • Te - Find the most immediate steps needed in logical order and make priorities.
  • Te - Organize environments according to ergonomics.
  • Te - Create rules or standards that conform to good results.
  • Te - Evaluate all performance according to measurement and efficiency.
  • Fe - Find needs of individuals in a group and try to see that they get fulfilled. Help excluded people.
I'm pretty sure I'm going to be tired.

RE: Myers Briggs Adventure
Answer
12/14/15 10:45 PM as a reply to Richard Zen.
Richard Zen:
Myers-Briggs is just a preference inventory. The fact that you can develop skills shows that it's malleable and people can learn. It's not fixed. Anyone who believes MBTI is a fixed thing is wrong.
Do many believe it to be fixed?  I was told it can and in fact usually does change as you age and develop through time.  I used to be INTJ in high school, just took it again and came up almost neutral except for distinct tendency towards Intuitional.  Took it years later and I think I got INTP.  Took it just now and it was INFJ but this time all but the Intuitional was a very weak preference.  I did notice this time I had very little preference in a lot of the questions, often answering 'uncertain,' I think that's changed a lot from past times I've taken the test. 

Anyway, it's certainly just a preference list, it's not to say you can't learn any skills outside your personality type.  It's just that to some people, some skills may come to them almost as easy as breathing, in fact they may not even know how to not do those things, while others may have to put some effort and consideration into accomplishing those same things and even others may not be able to even fathom the need for those skills.  Also, to learn to do other skills is one thing, but it may not be easy to make those things your natural preference over previous preferences.  And even if you change one thing, like maybe developing a preference for reading, that will not automatically carry over to a whole global tendency towards introversion for instance.  If you are extrovert now, even if you development a preference for curling up with a book often, that does not mean you will start disliking parties for instance.  ;-P 


RE: Myers Briggs Adventure
Answer
12/14/15 11:11 PM as a reply to Eva Nie.
Eva M Nie:
Richard Zen:
Myers-Briggs is just a preference inventory. The fact that you can develop skills shows that it's malleable and people can learn. It's not fixed. Anyone who believes MBTI is a fixed thing is wrong.
If you are extrovert now, even if you development a preference for curling up with a book often, that does not mean you will start disliking parties for instance.  ;-P 
It's a form of balancing where you attain certain habits (not as strong as things you've done since childhood) but your mind can do these activities with more ease because of practice. Looking at those older INFPs it's pretty clear they didn't develop much and it's possible to stagnate. Some do improve without realizing it, and out of necessity but actively doing so (while using mindfulness practices, goal-setting, GTD, motivation etc) makes it easier than a shot in the dark.

RE: Myers Briggs Adventure
Answer
12/15/15 1:39 PM as a reply to Richard Zen.
Richard Zen:
Eva M Nie:
Richard Zen:
Myers-Briggs is just a preference inventory. The fact that you can develop skills shows that it's malleable and people can learn. It's not fixed. Anyone who believes MBTI is a fixed thing is wrong.
If you are extrovert now, even if you development a preference for curling up with a book often, that does not mean you will start disliking parties for instance.  ;-P 
It's a form of balancing where you attain certain habits (not as strong as things you've done since childhood) but your mind can do these activities with more ease because of practice. Looking at those older INFPs it's pretty clear they didn't develop much and it's possible to stagnate. Some do improve without realizing it, and out of necessity but actively doing so (while using mindfulness practices, goal-setting, GTD, motivation etc) makes it easier than a shot in the dark.
I do agree it's probably a good idea to try to develop in new areas.  I have tended to do that if for no other reason than that for many things, living another half a life time with various weaknesses is probably more of a hassle than working on lessening the weaknesses and living with them less. ;-P

RE: Myers Briggs Adventure
Answer
12/15/15 10:24 PM as a reply to Eva Nie.
Eva M Nie:
Richard Zen:
Eva M Nie:
Richard Zen:
Myers-Briggs is just a preference inventory. The fact that you can develop skills shows that it's malleable and people can learn. It's not fixed. Anyone who believes MBTI is a fixed thing is wrong.
If you are extrovert now, even if you development a preference for curling up with a book often, that does not mean you will start disliking parties for instance.  ;-P 
It's a form of balancing where you attain certain habits (not as strong as things you've done since childhood) but your mind can do these activities with more ease because of practice. Looking at those older INFPs it's pretty clear they didn't develop much and it's possible to stagnate. Some do improve without realizing it, and out of necessity but actively doing so (while using mindfulness practices, goal-setting, GTD, motivation etc) makes it easier than a shot in the dark.
I do agree it's probably a good idea to try to develop in new areas.  I have tended to do that if for no other reason than that for many things, living another half a life time with various weaknesses is probably more of a hassle than working on lessening the weaknesses and living with them less. ;-P

Just think about it. Look at a function you don't normally do and use mindfulness or the breath to relax your stress so that you can do the new task with less pain and resistance. Shouldn't enlightenment include freedom like this?

RE: Myers Briggs Adventure
Answer
12/16/15 10:02 AM as a reply to Richard Zen.
I like your experiment. I've found the MBTI to be a useful model for understanding myself and others.

I'm an INTP, one of the types most likely to be mistaken for a robot, and even before discovering MBTI found activities that exercise my less developed cognitive functions (Si, Fe) have helped me become a more sociable (and socially acceptable) person. Dance, martial arts, and yoga have all made me more in tune with my body, more receptive to the emotions of others, and more emotionally expressive. I'll never excel at small talk (so tedious!), but these days can pass for an extrovert quite well if the situation calls for it and am less quickly drained by social interaction.

The best summary I've read of the theory described it as such: everyone has these same 16 rooms in their house, but we spend most of our time in just one. With practice, we can become comfortable spending more time in other rooms (i.e., gain fluency in using other functions).

What are your metrics for gauging improvement in this experiment?

RE: Myers Briggs Adventure
Answer
12/16/15 1:08 PM as a reply to Ann.
Ann:
What are your metrics for gauging improvement in this experiment?
LOL! Step 1 is to be a person that uses metrics to gauge improvement. 

All joking aside each function has a goal or benefit so if I achieve more goals and gain more benefits from these exercises then that is the success. I also feel that certain functions may also help others so I'll be interested in seeing which functions actually become habits and which ones are persistently out of reach.

RE: Myers Briggs Adventure
Answer
12/16/15 3:30 PM as a reply to Richard Zen.
Richard Zen:
LOL! Step 1 is to be a person that uses metrics to gauge improvement. 


Yeah, I suppose that's not really an INFP thing.

Well, good luck to you! It seems like even without significant tangible benefits, the insight into how others operate would be valuable.

RE: Myers Briggs Adventure
Answer
12/16/15 9:27 PM as a reply to Richard Zen.
Richard Zen:

Just think about it. Look at a function you don't normally do and use mindfulness or the breath to relax your stress so that you can do the new task with less pain and resistance. Shouldn't enlightenment include freedom like this?
What I do for that is kind of investigate  how I am thinking about the task, and typically I will notice various silly inaccurate thoughts, and noticing that which is unrealistic usually helps a lot.  Cuz really, there is not much that most of us have to do that is really so terrible as we tend to make it out. Seems like the mind likes to come up with preferences, so even when the various tasks are all fairly neutral, we will tend to divide them up into preferred and less preferred, even when the less preferred are not a big deal either.
-Eva

RE: Myers Briggs Adventure
Answer
12/17/15 1:02 AM as a reply to Eva Nie.
Eva M Nie:
Richard Zen:

Just think about it. Look at a function you don't normally do and use mindfulness or the breath to relax your stress so that you can do the new task with less pain and resistance. Shouldn't enlightenment include freedom like this?
What I do for that is kind of investigate  how I am thinking about the task, and typically I will notice various silly inaccurate thoughts, and noticing that which is unrealistic usually helps a lot.  Cuz really, there is not much that most of us have to do that is really so terrible as we tend to make it out. Seems like the mind likes to come up with preferences, so even when the various tasks are all fairly neutral, we will tend to divide them up into preferred and less preferred, even when the less preferred are not a big deal either.
-Eva
Yes but remember the intentions are already leaning towards habitual behaviours so in the end it's enough practice to make the new task seem old and you become used to it.

RE: Myers Briggs Adventure
Answer
12/18/15 8:05 AM as a reply to Richard Zen.
Yesterday I was doing Se - Sensing Extroversion practice of just getting things done as quickly as possible with little reflection. This was interesting in that it was like being in the present moment in meditation but thoughts are allowed. The difference is that you don't give into too much reflection like a Sensing Introvert. There's definitely a speedy quality to it that gets you into flow quickly when doing it. I still crashed back to Sensing Introversion as that is more a habit for me but it was fun to try something else.

I'm going to start working on those difficult Te functions and see how that goes.

RE: Myers Briggs Adventure
Answer
12/20/15 1:22 PM as a reply to Richard Zen.
I'm starting the Te practices and finding them very difficult because the mental contrasting goes into "I don't know" territory which is demotivating. I think because I've never been in encouraging environments I'll have to create encouraging self-talk over and over again expecially during periods of extinction when I try new things. Encouraging self-talk is necessary to create resilience when pursuing goals. The brain out of habit (even when enlightened) requires that new conditioning be put in to achieve goals. One discouraging thought and demotivation is activated.

Si - Create and maintain routines to conserve energy.

Si is now being cultivated. As an INFP it's often difficult to keep schedules and it's easy to do something else. To follow a morning ritual, and do it in order, is starting to be a little addictive. This one is starting to work.

RE: Myers Briggs Adventure
Answer
12/20/15 2:05 PM as a reply to Richard Zen.
Richard Zen:
Si - Create and maintain routines to conserve energy.

Si is now being cultivated. As an INFP it's often difficult to keep schedules and it's easy to do something else. To follow a morning ritual, and do it in order, is starting to be a little addictive. This one is starting to work.

This is extremely effective. Used to be a night owl, but for years have been getting up well before dawn for tea and meditation. Right after that, I do whatever tasks are most difficult or distasteful for me because that's when I have the most energy and momentum to get them done. These are by far my most productive project hours of the day. Once it's a solid habit, it takes virtually no energy or motivation to sustain--you just do it.

Mark Twain said if you have to eat a live frog, do it first thing in the morning. If you have to eat two frogs, eat the bigger one first.

RE: Myers Briggs Adventure
Answer
12/20/15 2:31 PM as a reply to Ann.
Ann:
Richard Zen:
Si - Create and maintain routines to conserve energy.

Si is now being cultivated. As an INFP it's often difficult to keep schedules and it's easy to do something else. To follow a morning ritual, and do it in order, is starting to be a little addictive. This one is starting to work.

This is extremely effective. Used to be a night owl, but for years have been getting up well before dawn for tea and meditation. Right after that, I do whatever tasks are most difficult or distasteful for me because that's when I have the most energy and momentum to get them done. These are by far my most productive project hours of the day. Once it's a solid habit, it takes virtually no energy or motivation to sustain--you just do it.

Mark Twain said if you have to eat a live frog, do it first thing in the morning. If you have to eat two frogs, eat the bigger one first.
The yoga and pushups are a good thing to do in the morning for me. It's easy to be sluggish and aversive on Monday morning at work if there's no exercise. The next hurdle is improving my cooking. That's one of the biggest weaknesses for me which is eating out. Though I do enjoy washing the dishes while I'm cooking. I end up finishing with them faster than a dishwasher.